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  #11  
Old 09-17-2018, 04:47 PM
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gmcjetpilot gmcjetpilot is offline
 
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Originally Posted by az_gila View Post
In all the glider training I did it was always stressed never to do this.

In an emergency situation you might simply follow old habits and release both your seat belt and your parachute harness as if you were simply stepping out of the plane on the ground. .
That would be embarrassing, well for only a short while.

Quote:
Put up with the awkwardness and put the parachute on/off outside the plane every time. Make it a habit.
Good advice. I add treat your chute like gold... DO NOT LEAVE IT sitting in the plane or hanger all the time like a pile of dirty laundry. I had a hard suite case I kept my chute in when not in use. It should be kept clean of dirt and dust, dry and out of direct sunlight (as much as possible). Keeping it in environmentally controlled storage (your house) is also recommended. They are not delicate, but they can last a life time if taken care of.
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Last edited by gmcjetpilot : 09-17-2018 at 04:50 PM.
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  #12  
Old 09-18-2018, 12:28 AM
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newt newt is offline
 
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Default Wear your parachute

Here's a reasonably famous story of a parachute close call:
http://www.glidingcaboolture.org.au/what_went_wrong.htm

The pilot involved was originally going to go flying without the 'chute. The only reason he put it on is because it was already sitting in the cockpit when he reached it, and it was more trouble than it was worth to carry it somewhere else instead of just buckling-in.

(He survived virtually unscathed. The aircraft suffered a broken tailboom and a broken wing, but was repaired. Decades later, everyone in the Australian gliding fraternity knows what you're talking about if you refer to "That Cirrus.")


- mark
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  #13  
Old 09-18-2018, 09:24 AM
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az_gila az_gila is online now
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newt View Post
Here's a reasonably famous story of a parachute close call:
http://www.glidingcaboolture.org.au/what_went_wrong.htm

The pilot involved was originally going to go flying without the 'chute. The only reason he put it on is because it was already sitting in the cockpit when he reached it, and it was more trouble than it was worth to carry it somewhere else instead of just buckling-in.

(He survived virtually unscathed. The aircraft suffered a broken tailboom and a broken wing, but was repaired. Decades later, everyone in the Australian gliding fraternity knows what you're talking about if you refer to "That Cirrus.")


- mark
The accident report shows it was helped along by the all-flying tail of the Cirrus and early Mini-Nimbus.

My Mini-Nimbus lacked stability, especially at high speeds - it was fixed when I did the UK-required modification and added an anti-servo tab to the all-flying tail. The difference was night and day.
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Half completed RV-10 QB purchased
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Grumman Tiger N12GA - flying
La Cholla Airpark (57AZ) Tucson AZ

Last edited by az_gila : 09-30-2018 at 01:35 AM.
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  #14  
Old 09-18-2018, 09:39 AM
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smokyray smokyray is offline
 
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Default Jettison of the aircraft...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plumbmaster View Post
The question has arisen as to whether or not it is possible to open the canopy while in flight. Specifically, can the slider on a RV6A be slid open while in flight in order to bail out? Has anyone had a slider open on them accidentally? Has anyone bailed out of a RV?
This all has to do with aerobatics and whether or not it's possible to bail out...I mean we all have parachutes-right? :-)
Short answer (having attempted opening it inflight as low as 60 KIAS) NO. The slider canopy could be easily modified to jettison.
I don't know of any successful RV bailouts and I've been around these airplanes since 1985. There have been however, several fatalities after loss of control, aft CG spin into terra firma, jammed flight controls, structural failure, inflight fire, mid air collision, and CFIT.

Having sat on an ejection seat equipped Jet for most of my adult life, extricating yourself isn't the most difficult part, trust me. It's making the decision to exit the aircraft that's difficult.
It cost two of my close friends their lives.

Bottom line if you're not accustomed to setting a minimum maneuver altitude (hard deck if you will) and adhering to it, practice doing it. The FAA says 1500' AGL minimum.https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/91.303 However, extricating yourself from an RV after departing controlled flight or catastrophic structural failure will take more than 1500 feet IMHO. 3000' AGL. is a much more realistic number.
If you like aerobatics but have never worn a chute or jumped, maybe a trip to a nearby drop zone for a demo tandem jump will give you an appreciation. Either way, parachute use with training could save your life if so needed. Whether you wear one or not is a personal decision you have to make based on your own abilities.
Personally, I feel the BRS has a much higher percentage of saves, but that's another subject for another thread.

Practice makes perfect, have a plan and stick to it...

V/R
Smokey

Good Aerobatic bailout story https://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.a...97FA037&akey=1

Last edited by smokyray : 09-18-2018 at 10:22 AM.
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  #15  
Old 09-18-2018, 01:19 PM
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az_gila az_gila is online now
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smokyray View Post
...

Having sat on an ejection seat equipped Jet for most of my adult life, extricating yourself isn't the most difficult part, trust me. It's making the decision to exit the aircraft that's difficult.
It cost two of my close friends their lives.

.......
Smokey
This goes along with something several experienced glider pilots told me, and goes along with the fact that almost all glider pilots wear parachutes.

Always have full hull insurance on your plane.

You do not even want a passing thought of $$$ to be in your head when making the bail out decision Smokey is mentioning.
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Half completed RV-10 QB purchased
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Grumman Tiger N12GA - flying
La Cholla Airpark (57AZ) Tucson AZ

Last edited by az_gila : 09-18-2018 at 01:22 PM.
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  #16  
Old 09-19-2018, 09:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smokyray View Post
wmaking the decision to exit the aircraft that's difficult.
It cost two of my close friends their lives.
Practice makes perfect, have a plan and stick to it...
Good advice and goes along with the seminar Allan Silver gives, emergency parachute use for sport pilots, if/when to get out is #1 decision.

I notice some videos on youtube of military training on bailouts... The WWII ones are funny. These are suggested for entertainment and time wasting, BUT there are some timeless pearls of wisdom from these trainning films that apply to us.

Bailing Out 1949 US Navy Pilot Training Film; Animated Cartoon (vintage) Start watching at 4:07 if you want to save time there is some good advice here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocJGQADMx30

Aircraft Ejection Decisions: "A Second Too Late" 1981 Pilot Training Film (modern) (This talks of ejection envelope, but moreover decision making. We should have this "envelope" to bail in mind. Like don't bailout when low and slow, takeoff or final approach (less than 1000 agl). Bailout might be ill advise. Level in the pattern at 1000 agl, bailout may be successful. Important know when you will or want to eject and stick to it.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_P7B9TuvYUk

Interesting (maybe stupid), somewhere in Dubi a tandem glider intentionally ejects the back seat passenger with square sport chute. The video starts with back seat guy taking selfie with GoPro. The canopy is already off. Start video at 3:00 to watch the ejection about 5 seconds later. The perspective from the ejected back seater is interesting. It starts with glider doing aerobatics. The maneuver before he bails/ejection is a dive, pull up with a push.
Fabien Duperrier Ejected Glider
https://youtu.be/fPT2tJab3C8

This military traning video on ejection seat safety from 1961 is dark and has echos of the movie "Sixth Sense". It has no relevance to sport flying in RV's, except keep our emergency gear in good condtion and check it. Although I am laughing thinking of some experimental aircraft builder putting an automotive air bag under the seat.... that would LAUNCH you out the plane in a hurry. Make sure canopy is open. Ha ha.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8o7KzoMYAuU
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Last edited by gmcjetpilot : 09-19-2018 at 06:00 PM.
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  #17  
Old 09-29-2018, 03:28 AM
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Default Bailing Out

Great responses from everyone. I have watched some of the videos and was particularly impressed by the glider pilot "ejection". My bird is in the paint shop and getting a propeller overhaul so this would be a good opportunity to get my initial parachuting experience. I also will pursue the idea of changing the bolts with quick release pins in order to jettison the canopy.
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  #18  
Old 09-29-2018, 08:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Icarus View Post
Not if we are solo...

I would be more concerned with a typical GA pilots ability (or lack thereof) to stabilize in freefall and deploy said chute.
My thoughts too. I had a harness/container loosen up on me so bad, I wound up falling rear first, practically in fetal position, trying to grab the drouge. Never did find that thing before finally saying "screw it!" and deploying the reserve. Pretty dang scary for someone with less than 10 jumps.
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  #19  
Old 10-01-2018, 09:59 AM
RV6junkie RV6junkie is offline
 
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The only time you'd bail out of a plane would be the loss of a control surface or the wing itself - if the aircraft is in tact you'd fly it to some type of landing.

Now, if you loose a control surface, you can imagine that the aircraft is spinning and/or rolling violently - and descending. Given the time to assess the situation, remove the belt buckle, open the canopy and attempt to get out under 6,8,10 12g...well, you just hit the ground.

IMHO, you are not getting out of an RV6 that requires you to bailout.
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  #20  
Old 10-02-2018, 04:50 PM
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gmcjetpilot gmcjetpilot is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RV6junkie View Post
The only time you'd bail out of a plane would be the loss of a control surface or the wing itself - if the aircraft is in tact you'd fly it to some type of landing.

Now, if you loose a control surface, you can imagine that the aircraft is spinning and/or rolling violently - and descending. Given the time to assess the situation, remove the belt buckle, open the canopy and attempt to get out under 6,8,10 12g...well, you just hit the ground.

IMHO, you are not getting out of an RV6 that requires you to bail out.
You don't have a very good imagination... There is a sad case of a RV-8 about 19 years ago in the Oregon, massive fire, piloted try to descend, bailed out.... He did not have a chute. He decided he rather fall to death then burn to death. Autopsy found smoke damage in his lungs.

Location: LAFAYETTE, OR
Accident Number: SEA99FA113
Date & Time: 07/10/1999, 1520 PDT
Registration: N41VA
Aircraft: Alexander VAN'S RV-8
Aircraft Damage Destroyed
Injuries: 1 Fatal

There was another one but in Lancair... Prop separated and oil went all over the wind screen and canopy, and he could not see. He was able to control the plane but the off field landing, he perished.

Location:Ooltewah, TN
Accident Number: ERA14FA421
Date & Time: 09/03/2014, 1522 EDT
Registration: N541EM
Aircraft: KLAAS DEVELOPMENT INC LANCAIR IV P
Defining Event: Part(s) separation from AC
Injuries: 1 Fatal
Flight Conducted Under: Part 91: General Aviation - Business

Your other conjecture that successful bail outs are not practical or possible because of lack of time or high G forces is just made up. There have been 100's of successful bail outs in GA planes, in all kinds of airplanes and gliders. There are 100's of accidents where a chute would have saved the day. As I pointed out you can bail out as low as 1000 feet and survive (see base jumpers).

At 9G or 12G, an airplane will disintegrate; once that happens you and the bits of airplane are 1G ballistic object at terminal velocity or less. There was a case where a wing folded up and down onto cockpit with tragic results. However it takes only takes 3 seconds for the chute to deploy. Even if you were a rock, it takes 1500 feet and 12 seconds to reach terminal velocity. From 3000 feet you have time. I'm not going to argue that you could be "out of the envelope" to bail out, like right after takeoff or low on final. However there are many scenarios where bail out can save a pilots (and passengers) life. I remind you aerobatics with two people requires parachutes, unless for training (with CFI).

Loss of power (mechanical, fuel) would be a great reason to jump. Why make a dubious off field forced landing over rugged terrain or congested area with no suitable landing. Unfortunately when folks lose power they end up stalling and spinning in. Even if you have to crash into the side of a building do it at min speed with full flaps UNDER CONTROL. People will try and land on a freeway and snag a power line or street light or sign and parish... I am sure you have superior pilot skill and will make a perfect emergency landing and leap tall buildings every time, but mere mortals can see a need for a parachute.

Of course there is Cirrus with chutes on the airframe. They have been used when pilots saved their life as well as their passengers. You are welcome to your contrarian opinion, but you are not welcome to your own facts... There are many reasons to bail out... Is it COMMON? Thankfully no, flying is fairly safe. However we have insurance on our house, car and plane and don't expect to ever make a claim or collect money. You have a chute and don't expect to use it. However if you need it, it's worth it. I could see a non-instrument rated pilot flying from VMC to IMC bailing out... Of course one should never get into that situation.

Although rare, it has happened many times, pilot being accidentally ejected from airplane. It is rare but there have been cases of seat belts failing, not being secure or unknown, resulting in pilot being ejected from plane. One was in an RV, another in a Mustang II (like a RV-6) and a third, in a Zenair recently in TN. If you are going loop-de-loop I suggest a chute. I always have one when doing aerobatics.

Some examples of bail outs (low to the ground)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VINgXlF2R0Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPv7aW64i40
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLTgdiBYfKA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgfG2DfPB6I
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Last edited by gmcjetpilot : 10-02-2018 at 09:46 PM.
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