Van's Air Force
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Jabiru RV-12 Update
- Thread starter KatieB
- Start date
KatieB
Well Known Member
Storm
Thanks for posting those photos, Joe. I'll save them since they're the only photos I have of the 12 in our booth.
We knew that questionable weather was moving in this morning, so we left the 12 in our covered trailer. That was a good decision, since the booth tent is now a pile of twisted, broken tubes and our new Jabiru J230 SLSA ended up on its back. (Sun n Fun was its first trip-- the Hobbs reads 15 hours.) Our damage was light compared to the Zenith boys, the Lockwood AirCams and so many RV'ers and other homebuilders who lost their planes today. Ben and I both felt our hearts sink when we pulled up VAF and saw the photos of Tony Spicer's mint green RV-3 with its wheels in the air. I'm glad nobody got seriously hurt-- that in itself is a miracle.
Currently, according to Lakeland news, word is the show will go on-- Not sure what our booth will look like tomorrow, but our -12 is safe and hopefully if we stay here we can put it on display again. I appreciate all of the great feedback and comments we've received so far!
Katie
Jabiru USA
Thanks for posting those photos, Joe. I'll save them since they're the only photos I have of the 12 in our booth.
We knew that questionable weather was moving in this morning, so we left the 12 in our covered trailer. That was a good decision, since the booth tent is now a pile of twisted, broken tubes and our new Jabiru J230 SLSA ended up on its back. (Sun n Fun was its first trip-- the Hobbs reads 15 hours.) Our damage was light compared to the Zenith boys, the Lockwood AirCams and so many RV'ers and other homebuilders who lost their planes today. Ben and I both felt our hearts sink when we pulled up VAF and saw the photos of Tony Spicer's mint green RV-3 with its wheels in the air. I'm glad nobody got seriously hurt-- that in itself is a miracle.
Currently, according to Lakeland news, word is the show will go on-- Not sure what our booth will look like tomorrow, but our -12 is safe and hopefully if we stay here we can put it on display again. I appreciate all of the great feedback and comments we've received so far!
Katie
Jabiru USA
skydiverlv
Well Known Member
Mmmm, bring on the 6 cyl, plenty of space there.
6cyl and fuel in wings
KatieB
Well Known Member
Post Sun n Fun...
I just wanted to thank everyone who came by the booth Tuesday and Wednesday to see the -12 project. We got a lot of great feedback from a lot of folks. After we get back to the shop and get the pressing messes straightened out, we'll work to get the -12 into the air as soon as possible. (We have a lot of work to do before Oshkosh!! ) I'll keep the updates coming...
I just wanted to thank everyone who came by the booth Tuesday and Wednesday to see the -12 project. We got a lot of great feedback from a lot of folks. After we get back to the shop and get the pressing messes straightened out, we'll work to get the -12 into the air as soon as possible. (We have a lot of work to do before Oshkosh!!
) I'll keep the updates coming...I appreciated the chance to go into your trailer on Saturday to take a look at your -12. I do like the look of the cowl better. Anxiously awaiting the flight test results. I am still heavily leaning towards E-LSA and the Rotax, but it was really compelling to see your setup and the cost associated with the Jabiru solution.
Carl
Carl
Rocket 12?
At 178 lbs and 120 horsepower the 3300 might make the 12 nose heavy and over powered. It obviously would not be E-LSA and probably not even an LSA any longer.
Hopefully, those trying it will not call it an RV-12.
This is a very popular thread, I am going to get flamed. Go easy, Jab guys (and gals).
Tony
At 178 lbs and 120 horsepower the 3300 might make the 12 nose heavy and over powered
. It obviously would not be E-LSA and probably not even an LSA any longer. Hopefully, those trying it will not call it an RV-12
.This is a very popular thread, I am going to get flamed. Go easy, Jab guys (and gals).
Tony
Unless the folks gets the S-LSA for their copy with the Jabiru, then by definition it can't be called an E-LSA... It is just an EAB that follows LSA specs and can be flown by a sport pilot.
Only E-LSAs are those that follow Van's RV-12 specs.
THe 6-cyl can be derated to keep it in LSA realm, but then what would it's true useful load end up being?
Currently the use of E-LSA with the Jabiru powered RV-12 is incorrect.
There are advantages/disadvantages with going either way, which have been discussed in other threads.
Only E-LSAs are those that follow Van's RV-12 specs.
THe 6-cyl can be derated to keep it in LSA realm, but then what would it's true useful load end up being?
Currently the use of E-LSA with the Jabiru powered RV-12 is incorrect.
There are advantages/disadvantages with going either way, which have been discussed in other threads.
Someone's bored?
From the specs I've seen, there is about 40 pounds in it between the engines, 912 vs Jab 6cyl and that's dry. Re-drive oil and cooling fluid will mop up some of the difference; you'd really have to be a bit precious about the breed not to acknowledge the Jab - RV as an RV-12. Remember too that RV-12's are built beyond the confines of the USA and some countries don't have a speed restriction on LSA class aircraft, which I assume is the objection to running 120hp in a 12?
If I'm not mistaken Jab engines have featured in RV's before now, I have seen an engine mount described "RV-7 Jab 8cyl" somewhere before now.
From the specs I've seen, there is about 40 pounds in it between the engines, 912 vs Jab 6cyl and that's dry. Re-drive oil and cooling fluid will mop up some of the difference; you'd really have to be a bit precious about the breed not to acknowledge the Jab - RV as an RV-12. Remember too that RV-12's are built beyond the confines of the USA and some countries don't have a speed restriction on LSA class aircraft, which I assume is the objection to running 120hp in a 12?
If I'm not mistaken Jab engines have featured in RV's before now, I have seen an engine mount described "RV-7 Jab 8cyl" somewhere before now.
Someone's bored?
From the specs I've seen, there is about 40 pounds in it between the engines, 912 vs Jab 6cyl and that's dry. Re-drive oil and cooling fluid will mop up some of the difference; you'd really have to be a bit precious about the breed not to acknowledge the Jab - RV as an RV-12. Remember too that RV-12's are built beyond the confines of the USA and some countries don't have a speed restriction on LSA class aircraft, which I assume is the objection to running 120hp in a 12?
If I'm not mistaken Jab engines have featured in RV's before now, I have seen an engine mount described "RV-7 Jab 8cyl" somewhere before now.
Just posting a couple of details to prevent confusion for some of the RV-12 interested lurkers out there.
It is true many countries where RV-12's are being built don't have the speed and gross weight limitations that exist for LSA in the U.S., but the laws of physics don't change when you cross a country border.
The RV-12 is one of the lightest airplanes in its class and it got that way because it was specifically designed to meet those weight and speed requirements (no extra structure or materials added that wasn't absolutely needed). If you choose to operate outside of the limits it was specifically engineered to, you do so at your own risk.
I think the Rotax 912 weighs just shy of 160 lbs all up weight installed with fluids in an RV-12.
The Jab 2200 is reported to weigh about 140 lbs full installed weight.
Considering that the Rotax RV-12 has the engine positioned about as tight to the firewall as possible for proper weight/balance, the position of the 2200 in these photos looks to me like it is over compensating a bit. If there is a 20 lb. weight difference, that should require only about a 7 inch difference in engine position. This looks to be more than that, but maybe not.
bhassel
Well Known Member
The Jabiru 3300 is a viable alternative for some since there are those of us that don't live close to sea level.
I live in a place where pattern altitude is over 7k, density altitudes can be well over 9k (especially in the summer - more like 10k+) and the hills around here apporach 12k... oh and the green/red chile is the best.
No flames (except for the chile) - just saying...
Bob
I live in a place where pattern altitude is over 7k, density altitudes can be well over 9k (especially in the summer - more like 10k+) and the hills around here apporach 12k... oh and the green/red chile is the best.
No flames (except for the chile) - just saying...
Bob
Good points, all...
And now I am afraid I have driven the "Jab Update" thread a bit off topic and sorry for that, Katie.
My earlier comment was not aimed at the research for suitable alternate engines in the 12, but more at what seems to be an interest in hot-rodding the 12 with more cylinders, more power, more weight, etc. And that deserves a new thread where issues of weight & balance, structural limitations, design philosophy and mission could all be discussed.
Tony
And now I am afraid I have driven the "Jab Update" thread a bit off topic and sorry for that, Katie.
My earlier comment was not aimed at the research for suitable alternate engines in the 12, but more at what seems to be an interest in hot-rodding the 12 with more cylinders, more power, more weight, etc. And that deserves a new thread where issues of weight & balance, structural limitations, design philosophy and mission could all be discussed.
Tony
KatieB
Well Known Member
This is exactly why we're starting with the 85-horse 2200.
As far as your earlier comment about "not calling it an RV-12", what about all the other alternative-engine RV's out there? Would you call a Subaru or rotary powered RV something else too? Our plane is absolutely stock except for the instrument panel and the firewall forward. And that falls squarely within the spirit of Experimental- Amateur Built.
MacPara
Well Known Member
you also have to consider the CG of the engine before making that 7" assumption. As the 2200 doesn't have a reduction drive in the front, its CG is probably more in the center of the engine block, while the 912S' is probably a bit more to the front. That might explain why the 2200 is offset more than you'd think ...
Well, an RV-12 with a suitable alternate engine could certainly still be called an RV-12. My comment did not refer to the Jab 2200 being developed but referred to the 3300, a 20% horsepower increase on a lightweight airframe designed for the 120 knot LSA speed limit with 100 horsepower. The results could affect RV-12 insurance rates
The other RVs are more robustly designed but even so, when they hang a six in them they are called "Rockets".
Tony
joedallas
Well Known Member
CG Close enough
I thing you are right. I ran all the numbers again and I don?t think that there to far off. The numbers I come up with are just under six inches to keep the CG the same as a stock 12
I think what they have is workable
I thing you are right. I ran all the numbers again and I don?t think that there to far off. The numbers I come up with are just under six inches to keep the CG the same as a stock 12
I think what they have is workable
You are correct, and I do not know the C.G. of the 2200 engine.
I do know that the C.G. of a bare 912 is exactly centered between cyl's #2 and #4 (About mid way front to back of its overall length if you include the starter sticking out the back).
The best I can tell from photos (I have not seen any taken directly from the side) it looks like the prop flange of the Jab. 2200 is between 10 - 11 inches further fwd than the prop flange on a 912 powered RV-12 is (but I could be way off)
We will have to wait and see how it works out.
We seem to have ended up a long way from the origin of Katie's thread, ie RV-12 with a 2200 Jabiru 4cyl, which I suspect has had it's CofG more carefully considered and measured than a squint at an oblique image will allow. I have to say I am a big fan of the 912 but equally I think it is important to drive the competition, Rotax have had the lightweight 80-115hp market virtually to themselves for a long time and I think that is reflected in the cost of the engines and particularly parts. Competition may even drive further innovation.
I still think the Jab/12 looks better than the original!
I still think the Jab/12 looks better than the original!
denmit
Member
I still think the Jab/12 looks better than the original!
I agree with you Spin, that is a good looking snout and the polished spinner sets it off a treat. Much better than the "small eyed surprised" look of the original.
I see you come from the home of Jabs. I contacted them a few weeks ago to see if the Aussies knew of the Jabiru USA experiment and whether they might consider a FWF kit should the experiment prove succesful. Their response, from Sue Woods, Business Manager at Jabiru Aircraft Pty Ltd was:
We will be discussing this with our US dealer at Oshkosh this year. Yes, I?m sure we will be able to do something for the Australian market.
I love competition.
DM
Engines
Hi Guys with talk of the Jab 3300 Engine one can look at the Positon of the Viking FH-110 in the RV-12 Installation and see where the Engine mounted hard up on the Firewall step for COG Considerations. Being of simular weight as a 3300 engine will be an interesting excercise..! I think the UL Power Engines 260iS & 360iS ( at 164Lbs & 178 Lbs) will have simular mounting positions..! Just a though chaps!
We seem to have ended up a long way from the origin of Katie's thread, ie RV-12 with a 2200 Jabiru 4cyl, which I suspect has had it's CofG more carefully considered and measured than a squint at an oblique image will allow. I have to say I am a big fan of the 912 but equally I think it is important to drive the competition, Rotax have had the lightweight 80-115hp market virtually to themselves for a long time and I think that is reflected in the cost of the engines and particularly parts. Competition may even drive further innovation.
I still think the Jab/12 looks better than the original!
Hi Guys with talk of the Jab 3300 Engine one can look at the Positon of the Viking FH-110 in the RV-12 Installation and see where the Engine mounted hard up on the Firewall step for COG Considerations. Being of simular weight as a 3300 engine will be an interesting excercise..! I think the UL Power Engines 260iS & 360iS ( at 164Lbs & 178 Lbs) will have simular mounting positions..! Just a though chaps!
bhassel
Well Known Member
I'm a Jabiru fan, Rotax and UL as well (heck even Lyco and Connie).
The Jabiru looks like a great alternative - for personal reasons I'm interested in the higher horsepower of the 3300 but would love to be proven wrong and be highly impressed with the 2200!
Bob
The Jabiru looks like a great alternative - for personal reasons I'm interested in the higher horsepower of the 3300 but would love to be proven wrong and be highly impressed with the 2200!
Bob
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In talking to the Jabiru folks at Sun N Fun it seems like the 3300 is not really a priority. They want to get the 2200 up and working and prove it is doable and then they will look at the 3300. It didn't sound like they were nearly as sure about being able to get it in there. One reason they stated to me was concern about the lack of sufficient support in the -12 firewall and engine mounting area. They thought it may take some level of reinforcement there to support the 3300.
I am not trying to put words into their mouths and this is just me talking to them at the show so take it for what it is worth.
Carl
I am not trying to put words into their mouths and this is just me talking to them at the show so take it for what it is worth.
Carl
KatieB
Well Known Member
Update
Progress on the -12 has been slow during the past couple of weeks due to a buildup of work after Sun n Fun coupled with the repair of our J230 demonstrator, our sole tornado victim. Anyway, I posted a couple more pictures of the -12 and one of our facility for the fun of it. The landing gear is going on and the wiring is pretty much complete. Hope to have it on its wheels soon and then start canopy stuff.
https://picasaweb.google.com/katie.bosman/RV12JabiruProject?feat=directlink
Progress on the -12 has been slow during the past couple of weeks due to a buildup of work after Sun n Fun coupled with the repair of our J230 demonstrator, our sole tornado victim. Anyway, I posted a couple more pictures of the -12 and one of our facility for the fun of it. The landing gear is going on and the wiring is pretty much complete. Hope to have it on its wheels soon and then start canopy stuff.
https://picasaweb.google.com/katie.bosman/RV12JabiruProject?feat=directlink
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KatieB
Well Known Member
You betcha, those are Arion Lightnings in the background. We build those here too.
Soon after posting my last update on Friday, I walked out into the shop and saw the little guy up on wheels for the first time!
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/lmAMTv6uKKcxpxrbZsu0oQ?feat=directlink
Soon after posting my last update on Friday, I walked out into the shop and saw the little guy up on wheels for the first time!
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/lmAMTv6uKKcxpxrbZsu0oQ?feat=directlink
KatieB
Well Known Member
Getting Closer!
Slow but steady.
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/YiQmGwxm6lZaRjBwhhAphQ?feat=directlink
Oren, I sent you an email...
Slow but steady.
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/YiQmGwxm6lZaRjBwhhAphQ?feat=directlink
Oren, I sent you an email...
KatieB
Well Known Member
Engine hung!
The engine is now installed on the -12 for good. Pete has been working on it and is in the process of creating the FWF installation manual.
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/27p1EFlWE6Z7Hgtqft05ng?feat=directlink
Of course right now we have a few planes in the shop for annual and repairs, so progress is still slow.
The engine is now installed on the -12 for good. Pete has been working on it and is in the process of creating the FWF installation manual.
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/27p1EFlWE6Z7Hgtqft05ng?feat=directlink
Of course right now we have a few planes in the shop for annual and repairs, so progress is still slow.
KatieB
Well Known Member
Progress!!
Finally Pete has had a chance to get out of the office and work on the -12. The tail is on, canopy skirt is pretty much complete, wiring is almost done, and he's now fitting the oil cooler.
Won't be long now...
https://picasaweb.google.com/katie.bosman/RV12JabiruProject?feat=directlink
Finally Pete has had a chance to get out of the office and work on the -12. The tail is on, canopy skirt is pretty much complete, wiring is almost done, and he's now fitting the oil cooler.
Won't be long now...
https://picasaweb.google.com/katie.bosman/RV12JabiruProject?feat=directlink
KatieB
Well Known Member
Won't be long now...
...Really!
When I got to the hangar this morning, the fuselage was tucked in the corner of the hangar where it was born, nestled among the assorted project-related debris.
I took an hour-long test flight in a Jabiru and came back to find this:
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/SLnZsXa60mLxqsw6vwRsmA?feat=directlink
Fuel tank installation is next, then rear windows. Airworthiness inspection scheduled for this coming week!
...Really!
When I got to the hangar this morning, the fuselage was tucked in the corner of the hangar where it was born, nestled among the assorted project-related debris.
I took an hour-long test flight in a Jabiru and came back to find this:
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/SLnZsXa60mLxqsw6vwRsmA?feat=directlink
Fuel tank installation is next, then rear windows. Airworthiness inspection scheduled for this coming week!
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KatieB
Well Known Member
It Runs!
First engine startup and taxi test went great. You can see a short video clip on our Facebook page: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Jabiru-USA-Sport-Aircraft/132969510046857
The empty weight with no paint, entire interior primed, and stock seat cushions is 705 lbs. Balance looks good. Inspection tonight!
First engine startup and taxi test went great. You can see a short video clip on our Facebook page: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Jabiru-USA-Sport-Aircraft/132969510046857
The empty weight with no paint, entire interior primed, and stock seat cushions is 705 lbs. Balance looks good. Inspection tonight!
Thank you, Thank you, THANK YOU!!
Katie,
I cannot tell you how much I appreciate your work on replacing the Rotax engine.
The time is approaching where I will have to go with a Light Sport Aircraft. I love Van's RV's; but was extremely disappointed they chose the Rotax engine. Let me explain why(have my nomex flame suit ready).
I will cede to the fact the Rotax engine is an extremely reliable, powerful, dependable & wonderful engine. It has one drawback, however, that apparently seems to affect no one but me. That drawback is its SOUND. To me, it sounds wimpy, although the rational part of my brain knows it is not. It just sounds like an aggravated mud dauber undergoing a colonoscopy without any anesthetic having been administered!! I hate it!!
Hey, I was born in late 1944 and have grown up in south Texas with Hellcats, Mustangs, P-47s, Bearcats, Skyraiders, S2 Trackers and other great airplanes buzzing around. My dear departed Dad was an airplane buff and we would regularly visit Rebel Fields in Mercedes & Harlingen as Loyd Nolen, Lefty Gardner and Bob Hoover prowled thru the skies in their refurbished warbirds. I LOVE the sound of reciprocating engines, RR Merlins, Allisons, Lycoming, Continental, Franklin, etc. Everything excepting Rotaxes & Subarus.
A big part of flying for me is the beautiful sound of those engines. Every time I climb onto the wing of my -4 I feel like Col. Joseph Culpepper (mythical Confederate Air Force Ace & Commander) about to go on a mission. There is something romantic & thrilling about the sounds emitting from my 0-320 Lycoming & 4 straight Vetterman pipes farting flames as I blaze off the runway @ 8T6. Man, I feel wonderful!!
I contrast that to me climbing into my friends Flight Design CT going down the runway: eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee I feel like Jim Carey on his mo-ped in the film Dumb & Dumber. It just takes the thrill out of flying for me. I'd rather feed the cows and mend fences.
The main point being, I'm not going to fork over $24 grand for an engine that irritates me; regardless the non-rational reason. Now the 6 cylinder Jabiru or the new Lyc 233 has some romantic appeal and will separate me and my hard earned money. Those engines sound, well, manly! Hey, I'm a man, can't help it. So, I'm really keeping an eye on this and saving my $$$$$$.
Thank you again for your work on this and please continue to keep us posted.
Cheers and wishing you the best in your endeavors.
Deal Fair
George West, TX (8T6)
Katie,
I cannot tell you how much I appreciate your work on replacing the Rotax engine.
The time is approaching where I will have to go with a Light Sport Aircraft. I love Van's RV's; but was extremely disappointed they chose the Rotax engine. Let me explain why(have my nomex flame suit ready).
I will cede to the fact the Rotax engine is an extremely reliable, powerful, dependable & wonderful engine. It has one drawback, however, that apparently seems to affect no one but me. That drawback is its SOUND. To me, it sounds wimpy, although the rational part of my brain knows it is not. It just sounds like an aggravated mud dauber undergoing a colonoscopy without any anesthetic having been administered!!
I hate it!!Hey, I was born in late 1944 and have grown up in south Texas with Hellcats, Mustangs, P-47s, Bearcats, Skyraiders, S2 Trackers and other great airplanes buzzing around. My dear departed Dad was an airplane buff and we would regularly visit Rebel Fields in Mercedes & Harlingen as Loyd Nolen, Lefty Gardner and Bob Hoover prowled thru the skies in their refurbished warbirds. I LOVE the sound of reciprocating engines, RR Merlins, Allisons, Lycoming, Continental, Franklin, etc. Everything excepting Rotaxes & Subarus.
A big part of flying for me is the beautiful sound of those engines. Every time I climb onto the wing of my -4 I feel like Col. Joseph Culpepper (mythical Confederate Air Force Ace & Commander) about to go on a mission. There is something romantic & thrilling about the sounds emitting from my 0-320 Lycoming & 4 straight Vetterman pipes farting flames as I blaze off the runway @ 8T6. Man, I feel wonderful!!
I contrast that to me climbing into my friends Flight Design CT going down the runway: eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee I feel like Jim Carey on his mo-ped in the film Dumb & Dumber. It just takes the thrill out of flying for me. I'd rather feed the cows and mend fences.
The main point being, I'm not going to fork over $24 grand for an engine that irritates me; regardless the non-rational reason. Now the 6 cylinder Jabiru or the new Lyc 233 has some romantic appeal and will separate me and my hard earned money. Those engines sound, well, manly! Hey, I'm a man, can't help it.
So, I'm really keeping an eye on this and saving my $$$$$$.Thank you again for your work on this and please continue to keep us posted.
Cheers and wishing you the best in your endeavors.
Deal Fair
George West, TX (8T6)
f1rocket
Well Known Member
Yes, times 2!!!
WingedFrog
Well Known Member
I am riding a BMW rather than a Harley for the very same reason but in my case it's a rationale reason: it's a quieter, safer and smoother ride... albeit a tad expensive... just like the Rotax.
KatieB
Well Known Member
IT FLIES!!
Pete Krotje flew his RV-12 for the first time this morning-- the first RV-12 to fly with a Jabiru 2200.
He reported that it's a "delightful & fun" airplane to fly and it performs as he expected. Here are some of the preliminary numbers recorded on the second flight.
Takeoff roll: about 750 feet "without trying hard"
Climb rate: 750 fpm steady at 70 knots indicated
Climb RPM: 2880
Cruise speed at 2950 rpm/4 gph: Promising. 102 knots average GPS groundspeed on closed course. Airspeed indicator needs some calibration- stay tuned for IAS/TAS numbers.
CHT: Highest registered was 290F (ideal for a Jabiru)
Oil Temp: slightly high but still in the green-- we'll work to adjust the oil cooler installation a bit.
OAT: 72F
Field Elevation: 800
Density Altitude: About 2000
Wind: Variable at 4 knots
Takeoff Weight: 1100 lbs
I've posted more photos in our album: https://picasaweb.google.com/katie.bosman/RV12JabiruProject?feat=directlink
I'll have more updates as we tweak it and get some better data.
Pete Krotje flew his RV-12 for the first time this morning-- the first RV-12 to fly with a Jabiru 2200.
He reported that it's a "delightful & fun" airplane to fly and it performs as he expected. Here are some of the preliminary numbers recorded on the second flight.
Takeoff roll: about 750 feet "without trying hard"
Climb rate: 750 fpm steady at 70 knots indicated
Climb RPM: 2880
Cruise speed at 2950 rpm/4 gph: Promising. 102 knots average GPS groundspeed on closed course. Airspeed indicator needs some calibration- stay tuned for IAS/TAS numbers.
CHT: Highest registered was 290F (ideal for a Jabiru)
Oil Temp: slightly high but still in the green-- we'll work to adjust the oil cooler installation a bit.
OAT: 72F
Field Elevation: 800
Density Altitude: About 2000
Wind: Variable at 4 knots
Takeoff Weight: 1100 lbs
I've posted more photos in our album: https://picasaweb.google.com/katie.bosman/RV12JabiruProject?feat=directlink
I'll have more updates as we tweak it and get some better data.
Mike S
Senior Curmudgeon
Congrats!!!!!!!!!!!!
Glad to hear the news.
Pete Krotje flew his RV-12 for the first time this morning-- the first RV-12 to fly with a Jabiru 2200.
Glad to hear the news.
Katie,
I cannot tell you how much I appreciate your work on replacing the Rotax engine.
The time is approaching where I will have to go with a Light Sport Aircraft. I love Van's RV's; but was extremely disappointed they chose the Rotax engine. Let me explain why(have my nomex flame suit ready).
I will cede to the fact the Rotax engine is an extremely reliable, powerful, dependable & wonderful engine. It has one drawback, however, that apparently seems to affect no one but me. That drawback is its SOUND. To me, it sounds wimpy, although the rational part of my brain knows it is not. It just sounds like an aggravated mud dauber undergoing a colonoscopy without any anesthetic having been administered!!
Hey, I was born in late 1944 and have grown up in south Texas with Hellcats, Mustangs, P-47s, Bearcats, Skyraiders, S2 Trackers and other great airplanes buzzing around. My dear departed Dad was an airplane buff and we would regularly visit Rebel Fields in Mercedes & Harlingen as Loyd Nolen, Lefty Gardner and Bob Hoover prowled thru the skies in their refurbished warbirds. I LOVE the sound of reciprocating engines, RR Merlins, Allisons, Lycoming, Continental, Franklin, etc. Everything excepting Rotaxes & Subarus.
A big part of flying for me is the beautiful sound of those engines. Every time I climb onto the wing of my -4 I feel like Col. Joseph Culpepper (mythical Confederate Air Force Ace & Commander) about to go on a mission. There is something romantic & thrilling about the sounds emitting from my 0-320 Lycoming & 4 straight Vetterman pipes farting flames as I blaze off the runway @ 8T6. Man, I feel wonderful!!
I contrast that to me climbing into my friends Flight Design CT going down the runway: eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee I feel like Jim Carey on his mo-ped in the film Dumb & Dumber. It just takes the thrill out of flying for me. I'd rather feed the cows and mend fences.
The main point being, I'm not going to fork over $24 grand for an engine that irritates me; regardless the non-rational reason. Now the 6 cylinder Jabiru or the new Lyc 233 has some romantic appeal and will separate me and my hard earned money. Those engines sound, well, manly! Hey, I'm a man, can't help it.
Thank you again for your work on this and please continue to keep us posted.
Cheers and wishing you the best in your endeavors.
Deal Fair
George West, TX (8T6)
I fly a Rotax in another plane and I agree the sound is a little wimpy. I was excited to check out the Jabiru install at Sun N Fun. One thing they said there and it may have changed was that they were primarily focused on the 80 HP Jab initially and it sounded like the 3300 was still a question mark and not to be done soon. Maybe Katie can add comments on if/when the larger Jab engine will make an appearance?
Carl
KatieB
Well Known Member
I had to laugh at that... "eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!"
In addition to sound & other aesthetic qualities, there are some very rational reasons for going with a Jabiru 2200: Simplicity, economy, and reliability.
Van's powerplant kit is $28,730. Our powerplant kit is $18,450.
Any A&P can work on a Jabiru without special certification.
Jabiru engines will run on both 100LL and high-test auto fuel.
Direct-drive, air-cooled, light weight. And as Pete is finding out, the little -12 performs really well on just 85 horsepower.
He put 2.8 hours on the little bird today and loved every minute of it.
It really would be quite a rocket with the 3300. As Van's engineers said, the structure was only designed to handle the output of a 912-- and this design is so efficient that every part is as heavy as it has to be, and no more. Of course everyone wants more power, but we'll see after the test phase of the 85-hp whether 120 hp is a good idea.
Thank you Mike-- I appreciate you posting the photos! How do you do that?
In addition to sound & other aesthetic qualities, there are some very rational reasons for going with a Jabiru 2200: Simplicity, economy, and reliability.
Van's powerplant kit is $28,730. Our powerplant kit is $18,450.
Any A&P can work on a Jabiru without special certification.
Jabiru engines will run on both 100LL and high-test auto fuel.
Direct-drive, air-cooled, light weight. And as Pete is finding out, the little -12 performs really well on just 85 horsepower.
He put 2.8 hours on the little bird today and loved every minute of it.
It really would be quite a rocket with the 3300. As Van's engineers said, the structure was only designed to handle the output of a 912-- and this design is so efficient that every part is as heavy as it has to be, and no more. Of course everyone wants more power, but we'll see after the test phase of the 85-hp whether 120 hp is a good idea.
Thank you Mike-- I appreciate you posting the photos! How do you do that?
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