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Psychological $5 100LL barrier broken here

Ron Lee

Ron Lee

Well Known Member
100LL just went to $5.25 a gallon at 00V. While I was already minimizing "unnecessary" flights, the current price just makes it worse.

This from someone who was flying around 250 hours a year. No more.
 
My concern is that 5 is not the top. I fear we will look back and wish we could get gas for 5/gal.

The upside is the user fee fight will die since there will be fewer "users", no one left to tax. The need to overhaul ATC will be reduce due to fewer "users" . The VLJ explosion will not occur once the "users" figure out the 1.5Mil to purchase the jet is the cheap part. We will soon move from an airspace and airport system that is at capacity to excess capacity.

Always look for the silver lining. :D
 
Really - I'd be happy with that - it has been $5.39 for a while here. I just wish auto gas prices in the US would go up more.
 
That's all???

Ron Lee said:
100LL just went to $5.25 a gallon at 00V. While I was already minimizing "unnecessary" flights, the current price just makes it worse.

This from someone who was flying around 250 hours a year. No more.
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Add another $2.00 at KPDK!!!!!! :eek:
 
I'm sure you get told this all the time, but...

In the UK avgas is currently between £1.40 & £1.80 per litre, which is about $10 to $15 per us gallon!
I'm going touring Europe next week aiming for Tempelhof, checking on prices en route I've found avgas as high as 2.5 euros per litre or $3.85 per litre!!!

:-(

Mark T
RV6 IO-360 200hp, UK
 
We haven't been below $5/gal at ADS for years. That's why I don't buy avgas there. I'd rather support neighboring cities who are interested in getting along with aviation (GLE, DTO, SWI, JWY) rather than gouging it.

TODR
 
$4.96 At Drake Field FYV

I filled up tonight (5-15-08) for a trip to St. Louis tomorrow. It is $4.96 here in Northwest Arkansas. The Chapter VP who is base in Neosho, MO tells me it is much less there. We have our compensations here in the Ozarks.

Bob Axsom
 
Don't complain, for you it is stil cheap!

You have been spoiled for decades,.... as far as fuel prices! :rolleyes: We are paying more than $ 13,-/gal for Avgas at the moment :eek: and prices are going up all the time, so stop complaining! :eek: Prices of Mogas, Diesel, Heating fuel and Natural gas are also constantly rising!

Everybody should contribute to stop the global warming (well that is what the politicians tell us is why we are paying so much much for fuel over here) :mad:. I just do not understand how a higher price is going to cause less warming, we still need to use the fuel, right? We are just paying more for it, that is the only difference.

Tonny
 
Our AvGas prices up in Northern, CA have been over $5/gal for 8 months. It's at $5.05 at O16, and it takes 8 months to drain our tank before a refill. So everyone else is more expensive now :)

It is depressing, as new pilot who would like to build another 400 hours it's cramping my style. I have been trying to trade a piece of Airport property for an airplane now about 3 months. And I can't count how many gentleman have told me they are not interested in owning another plane, or airpark property because they are getting out of aviation. At least a dozen,and some with very nice RV's.

To the Europeans, I say, that is why we shot the red coats and declared our independence! Now we are just as red.
 
Those were the days of cheap fuel. :D

KPDK lists 100LL from $7.75 to $9.25. My airport manager (C75) says it is going up now. I think they have a charge if you flyby under 500 ft.

Any RV's at PDK?
 
The regional airport where I keep my plane (KBRD) has 100LL at $6.99/gallon. There's a nice little airport 28 miles/4 gallons from the other airport where 100LL is $5.05/gallon. There are at least three other little airports within that approximate radius where the fuel is priced similarly. A big component of my aviation life these days is figuring out the relative economy of flying to any of those airports just for fuel. The relative fuel price differences between those 5 airports tends to be very constant. I haven't bought ANY fuel at my home airport in almost a year, and I find myself frequently asking myself if it's worth the $30-$50-per-refueling premium at KBRD for the convenience of having the FBO fuel me up in my hangar like in the "old days".

Probably worth noting that the expensive fuel at my home airport is supplied by AvFuel. That likely doesn't bode well for the economy of G100UL if and when it ever achieves an actual presence at the pump.
 
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BillL said:
Those were the days of cheap fuel. :D

KPDK lists 100LL from $7.75 to $9.25. My airport manager (C75) says it is going up now. I think they have a charge if you flyby under 500 ft.

Any RV's at PDK?
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I call BS on their ability to charge for a flyby..
 
False priorities

If the price of Avgas or beer were to go up 20%, I would not use less of either.
 
We can only hope the free market will see an opportunity to make money and move in with alternatives.

I pinged the local airport to bring in Swift 94, suggesting that anyone offering this fuel at a discount to 100LL will bring in all the applicable piston airplanes from miles around. This never got off TDC as the business risk tolerance is low when dealing with a monopoly operation.

I suspect when 100UL is mandated we will look back at $6.50 avgas with envy.

Carl
 
Pilottonny said:
You have been spoiled for decades,.... as far as fuel prices! :rolleyes: We are paying more than $ 13,-/gal for Avgas at the moment :eek: and prices are going up all the time, so stop complaining! :eek: Prices of Mogas, Diesel, Heating fuel and Natural gas are also constantly rising!

Everybody should contribute to stop the global warming (well that is what the politicians tell us is why we are paying so much much for fuel over here) :mad:. I just do not understand how a higher price is going to cause less warming, we still need to use the fuel, right? We are just paying more for it, that is the only difference.

Tonny
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It's like your flight instructor explained to you during your first lesson....
IT'S ALL ABOUT CONTROL
 
Carl Froehlich said:
I pinged the local airport to bring in Swift 94, suggesting that anyone offering this fuel at a discount to 100LL will bring in all the applicable piston airplanes from miles around.
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I'm finding Swift 94 at more and more locations. Every single location but one was $6.99 per gallon. The one outlier was $6.95. Each location the 100LL was priced lower than the unleaded option. I'm still happy to have it available because it saves me from doing 25 hour oil changes for burning leaded fuel instead of unleaded (Rotax 912iS).

Additional info:

There will be an FAA webinar next Wednesday (August 23, 2023) about Swift Fuels. Not only the 94UL but also their 100R that covers more aircraft than just the experimental aircraft engines. https://www.faasafety.gov/SPANS/event_details.aspx?eid=122855

Swift locations: https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewe...&ll=40.805955463244246,-94.37862123125001&z=5
 
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Just a reality check for you - Avgas here is currently NZ$14.45 gallon... or about US$9 gallon.

So keep flying, because you're getting it cheap!
 
$ 10,40 CAD here in Neuville Quebec,
that's $7,70 USD ish at today's rate.
Incentive to run correctly LOP in cruise when possible !!
 
planenutz said:
Just a reality check for you - Avgas here is currently NZ$14.45 gallon... or about US$9 gallon.

So keep flying, because you're getting it cheap!
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No, we're not lucky. You are getting shafted, unfortunately, and so are we at $6.00 a gallon.
 
The sitrep from Hop-Along field:

100LL currently $5.49/gal. at KMTV - about 40 miles away. $7.50 :eek: at KROA - *almost* in the back yard.

93 octane ethanol-free mogas: $4.59/gal., *literally* in the back yard, delivered by the farmers' co-op to the hangar. Not happy with the prices these days compared to when we were an energy-independent petroleum-exporting nation (2017-2021), but we're surviving and aviating on social security so far.

I keep avgas on one side and mogas in the other, so as to use the reliably lower vapor pressure fuel during critical phases of flight. LOP cruise has been standard procedure here for decades.
 
I recently overhauled my 540 and stayed with the 8.5/1 pistons to keep my options open on fuel. I can see a time where I will be flying around at 135 knots and burning 8 gph.
 
Mconner7 said:
I recently overhauled my 540 and stayed with the 8.5/1 pistons to keep my options open on fuel. I can see a time where I will be flying around at 135 knots and burning 8 gph.
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Yep - the same reason I ordered my Cold Air Sump IO-540 with 8.5 pistons (ordered May 2021 from Thunderbolt and still waiting….).

I burned ethanol free premium unleaded pump gas in the 8A for years (parallel valve IO-360), but this was before the ethanol mandate making it hard to find the fuel. The plane was happy, the spark plugs were pristine and all was well (as long as you did not let the gas sit or try to burn winter pump gas in the summer).

We already know that when 100UL hits the market it will be more expensive than 100LL. Going back to pump gas may be the only mitigation. I’d much rather burn Swift 94 and avoid the vapor pressure issue, but FBOs that will carry it tend to be (in my opinion) the same FBOs that put a premium price on the fuel to bump up their margins. Considering Swift 94 is 100LL without the lead, it stands to reason it is cheaper to make and much cheaper to transport as the tanker need not be decontaminated before it can carry unleaded fuels.

Carl
 
So far $3.50 a litre nzd at 3.78 litres per us gallon and .60 cents on the dollar is around $8 usd a gallon currently. New Zealand.
 
So funny that back in 2008 when this thread started some were worried it would just keep going up and never come down. It's cheaper now than when the thread started 15 years ago !!

I'm buying it at $4.45 locally right now. I was considering buying in bulk and having them deliver to my airport but I have to fly somewhere anyway to exercise the engine so I fill it up when I fly over there.
 
Bill Boyd said:
Not happy with the prices these days compared to when we were an energy-independent petroleum-exporting nation (2017-2021)
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“energy independence” is a “political slogan, not an economic or technical concept with a clear definition” often used by politicians to “imply that a country is insulated from global energy markets”.

“This is rarely the case,” he said.

“If a country produces all of the energy that it consumes, does not participate in international trade in energy, does not import energy-intensive products and does not send energy-related pollution to its neighbors or the atmosphere, then I would consider it energy independent. I don’t think any country meets that definition.”


I could go on but posting facts about politics is not allowed in this forum, and I'm glad for that.
 
It costs me about one ipad to fill up my tanks today in Europe - prices are pretty consistent across the main countries I fly in - CH, FR, DE, and NL. About 25-30% difference between mogas and avgas.
 
well, prices seem to have stabilised around here, and I try to only burn MOGAS, retails for CHF2.23 at my field, equivalent in $ or €.

To say frankly I still find it pretty cheap :)eek:) for a finite source of polluting energy, and the price increase over the last 40 years (since I'm flying) has been minute compared to the increase for the rest of the goods and cost of living.
 
Cost of fly vs other leisure activity

Slight thread drift but just wondering what the cost comparison and increase over the last 5 years is of flying one hour in my RV vs playing one round of golf. I don’t golf so don’t know. After initial investment, I think many leisure activities reoccurring cost have increased comparatively to the avgas increase.

I will fly my RV pretty much every week no matter what the price of avgas becomes but I do hold the right to complain about it.
 
plehrke said:
Slight thread drift but just wondering what the cost comparison and increase over the last 5 years is of flying one hour in my RV vs playing one round of golf.
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When I was a teenager (long ago) we used to go out and play golf for entertainment, partly because it was so inexpensive. For $5 you could spend an afternoon playing 18 holes of golf. Now, it's like other forms of what used to be middle-class activities (skiing, boating, etc) that are no longer worth the ridiculous high cost. Terribly sad race to the bottom. BTW does anyone know what the bottom looks like? Is there a bottom?
 
71459 said:
Terribly sad race to the bottom. BTW does anyone know what the bottom looks like? Is there a bottom?
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Unfortunately it probably shares a similar scale with intelligence. There are limits to just how smart someone may be but there are no limits to stupidity.
 
plehrke said:
Slight thread drift but just wondering what the cost comparison and increase over the last 5 years is of flying one hour in my RV vs playing one round of golf. I don’t golf so don’t know. After initial investment, I think many leisure activities reoccurring cost have increased comparatively to the avgas increase.

I will fly my RV pretty much every week no matter what the price of avgas becomes but I do hold the right to complain about it.
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Part of what I love about my longer-standing hobby, ham radio: my initial cost for the station I've used the last decade was about 1 AMU for the transceiver and 1/2 AMU for the antennas. Recurring costs? Not sure, depends on load on the alternator and the price of diesel, but it's pennies per month. Enjoyment from casually working Italy on 75m SSB while cruising the interstate - priceless.
 
Original post 2008

100LL just went to $5.25 a gallon at 00V. While I was already minimizing "unnecessary" flights, the current price just makes it worse.

This from someone who was flying around 250 hours a year. No more.
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I thought this was a thread about griping on the high price of avgas?

Latest price on Buchanan Field Concord CA $ 7.05

Most of our recreational flying is in fact "unnessary"
In the meantime, premium pump mogas runs about $5 or more in some places.
I have dialed back my flying as well and using pump gas helps a great deal in making those "unnecessary" flights.

Many of us deserve what all of us have to endure.
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I can remember back before I retired in 2013, I was concerned about the rapid price increase of fuel for aviation and ground transportation.

Using AirNav to get aviation fuel prices, I did an estimate of cost to fly to OSH from SoCAL with one R.O.N. stop and compared to the cost of driving my 50 MPG VW diesel. Driving was going to cost about the same as flying when one factored in the extra R.O.N. cost of driving. The time saved flying was a great value compared to the time it was going to take to drive.

Back in September 1997 when I made first flight in my RV-6, it was costing me $35 USD to fill up. Now in 2023, a fill up is around $135. The $5 lunch with tip back in 1997 is now around $20.

I am a cheap (frugal) pilot. The cheapest thing about flying is the pilot. It is difficult for me to part with money unless I get something of the same or greater value in return. I am still flying so I must be getting my money's worth
 
Yeah, back in my day, we could buy a whole pig for a quarter. Of course, we only got paid 5 cents a week for a 6-day workweek, but *we liked it*.

Geez...talk about first world problems.
 
Still $6.97 for 100LL here at the regional airport where I hangar my airplane (no self-service). Among the many smaller airports within a 30 mile radius, cheapest is $5.05/gal. When my fuel is low, it's worth the short flight to save $1.92/gallon, and even more so if I'm returning from the west.
 
BillL said:
Those were the days of cheap fuel. :D

KPDK lists 100LL from $7.75 to $9.25. My airport manager (C75) says it is going up now. I think they have a charge if you flyby under 500 ft.

Any RV's at PDK?
Click to expand...

I fly out of PDK, but only renting. CVC was about $5.50 for self serve last week, but now their Self-serve is inop. (or everybody went there and emptied the tank.)
 
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