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Just tried MOGAS, didn't go well

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One side affect of running 93 E10 (at least in my experience, on my acft) is that it seems to be noticeably cleaner burning. The inside of my exhaust pipes don't have lead deposits and belly of the acft stays clean of exhaust stains. My sparks plugs don't have a trace of lead after 100 hrs. The oil seems to stay clear longer to. I have run 100LL at times and it is immediately noticeable in the exhaust stains on the exit ramp.
 
Yep, out with the old wives tales and in with some new ones.

Peterson does in fact have an STC for an IO engine - the IO-470 in a Bonanza/Debonair.. I would not be surprised, however, to find out that such has more to do with the airframe and fuel system than it does the engine of course.

There is certainly a fair amount of anecdotal evidence and field testing among the RV crowd to suggest that there isn't anything inherently wrong with mogas and an IO engine; in fact, Superior and other engine builders specifically call it out (not just any car gas, of course - octane and no-ethanal restrictions apply).

Brad,

I am not creating nwt's here or not deliberately, but I did make the mistake of thinking but not explaining there are none for the engines used in typical RV installations such as the IO Lycomings, more specifically those with the Bendix RSA type fuel system. I think if you do your research with the Petersen STC's that you will find none of the IO engines with Bendix gear are approved.

You also point out correctly the airframe often has an effect. Petersen have some STC's which apply to an engine in one airframe and not another, even with the same engine. Why? Airframe issues such as plumbing, pump, gascolator?whatever, but that airframe failed the tests. And some required water or some ADI system, I think the IO520 285HP Bonanza, which is a waste and not worth doing.

You are also correct that many here are running high quality mogas successfully. I know some of them, and their fuel delivery systems are anything but standard. There is one RV10 in the SFO area, and his threads on fuel system design are on VAF if you search hard enough. Ernst really did his homework before building.

Provided the fuel gets delivered it will run OK, the following things WILL happen, for any given power setting you will have lower EGT, higher CHT (& ICP's) and you will not have the detonation margin as the FAA certified the engine originally with. Now that is a moot point of you do not have all the parameters to create a detonation problem anyway. (I do have a bit of experience testing avgas and unleaded fuels on the GAMI/TAT dyno so I know a bit about the margins involved.)

Hope that clears that up :)
 
Hi David.

Here's an extract from the UK Light Aircraft Associations technical guidelines on fuel.

"With these engines, many of which were originally produced many decades ago, there have
been a variety of different valve seat and valve materials used over the years, and there is a
possibility that some combinations in the field might suffer problems with valve seat recession if
deprived of the dry-lubricating effect of tetraethyl lead in leaded fuels. To guard against this
possibility it is recommended that all users of Continental and Lycoming engines cleared for
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unleaded Mogas use should either use a fuel mixture with 10% 100LL in it or run a tankful of
100LL through the engine at least every 75 running hours to lubricate the valves and valve
seats."

The 24" max manifold effectively means that I cannot operate @ more than 80% of rated power on mogas. The max EGT is a cross check on not getting too lean (provided of course you are not already LOP). These measures are aimed at reducing the chance of detonation.

Regarding the F.I. setup, My company designs and makes automotive F.I. systems. We have also supplied aviation F.I. component parts and ignition systems for 40 years - This puts me in a good place to assess the suitability of component parts for ethanol bearing fuels. In my experience, a LOT of legacy aviation fuel systems are not ethanol fuel tollerant.

Just to be clear - My original post never said that "this would work" or suggested that others did the same, just describing what I do and why then sharing the results - "warts and all"

Regards,

Richard

Richard,

You are correct about components and compatibility, some are and some are not.

The article written by the UKLAA is completely wrong. Seriously this is not true. But it is a myth that has stood the test of time as they do. Simply put TEL is there for one reason only, detonation or anti-knock purposes. The old cast iron heads had a machined seat, when unleaded came along they got recession all of a sudden because the shorter latency of the combustion even ramped up the internal cylinder pressures and temperatures. Change the timing and you can offset that.

Lycoming and TCM engines always had hardened seats, so that was never an issue. But detonation margin for certification purposes is an issue and on turbo charged engines a very real issue in normal flight.

Think of it like this, the fuel is in a liquid vapour state on the inlet valves, and the tiny minuscule amount of TEL (which is not lead) is in that liquid, surrounded by a solvent. Not a very good lubricant. Once combusted, the TEL is transformed to lead oxybromide and comes out past the valve, in the form of a salt. Again, a very bad idea for a lubricant. Literally the TEL could not d anything to help the valve guides or seats even if it wanted to. And on the seats it causes more problems, but that is another story.

Getting TEL out of fuel is very good for the cleanliness of the engine. No risk there.


Memory burst?..In my hangar is an RV7A with O-360, standard installation. Beautiful plane, and Jamie has tried premium mogas with a hot engine on a hot day, on the ground it would not taxi or even take off. I hate to think what would have happened had he been able to take off when the heat soak got him. - BE CAREFUL FOLKS, especially in warm climates.
 
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