Van's Air Force
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C'mon Dynon, What's Up?
- Thread starter RatMan
- Start date
That's why I said to program the GPS with the turns.
Brantel
Well Known Member
In an earlier post you stated that the AP with the HS34 could fly anything the HSI was configured for including ILS and VOR. Now you say it will require anther $1500 to do that???
How about vertical GPS approaches?
The extra $1500 brings this closer to the price point of a AFS or GRT with the DFIIVSGV AP......
The $1500 adds vertical coupling and mode sequencing.
Without the AP76, you can fly any horizontal info that is on the HSI. That could be coming from a GPS, GPS steering, NAV, or a localizer.
With the AP76, you can do all of the above, but you can also fly GPS vertical paths and the glideslope. On top of that, you can do sequences, like I mentioned earlier, where the AP holds a heading or altitude until intercepting an ILS or VOR.
The AP76 also adds vertical speed holds, with or without an altitude target, and probably some other stuff I'm forgetting.
As for pricing, if you add it all up, an EFIS-D10A + servos + AP76 + HS34 will run you $5850. Add the 430 and you've got an autopilot that is as capable as pretty much ANYTHING else on the market, plus a full set of flight instruments as well. I'm not sure the pricing ends up that close. As you know, you can't fly an ILS couple with the TT until your EFIS creates data that looks like GPS vertical steering, which means you'll need to add an EFIS that is more than the Dynon by a lot.
Without the AP76, you can fly any horizontal info that is on the HSI. That could be coming from a GPS, GPS steering, NAV, or a localizer.
With the AP76, you can do all of the above, but you can also fly GPS vertical paths and the glideslope. On top of that, you can do sequences, like I mentioned earlier, where the AP holds a heading or altitude until intercepting an ILS or VOR.
The AP76 also adds vertical speed holds, with or without an altitude target, and probably some other stuff I'm forgetting.
As for pricing, if you add it all up, an EFIS-D10A + servos + AP76 + HS34 will run you $5850. Add the 430 and you've got an autopilot that is as capable as pretty much ANYTHING else on the market, plus a full set of flight instruments as well. I'm not sure the pricing ends up that close. As you know, you can't fly an ILS couple with the TT until your EFIS creates data that looks like GPS vertical steering, which means you'll need to add an EFIS that is more than the Dynon by a lot.
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AP74 Functions
Using he AP74, can heading, track, and desired altitude be set with the vlaue knob?
BTW, how great is a company that works on Easter Sunday? Ya gotta love it.
Using he AP74, can heading, track, and desired altitude be set with the vlaue knob?
BTW, how great is a company that works on Easter Sunday? Ya gotta love it.
Yes, the heading, track, and altitude bugs can all be set via the value knob on the AP74. The baro and IAS bug can also be set.
It doesn't feel so much like work when you have so many people excited about your product. Thanks for everyone's support and interest!
It doesn't feel so much like work when you have so many people excited about your product. Thanks for everyone's support and interest!
Jamie
Well Known Member
So if you have an HS34 and an AP74, the value knobs are functionally equivalent?
cytoxin
Well Known Member
so with an sl 30, d100 and an ap74 i wont need a hs 34 module?
Awesome news!
Know it probably won't fall in release one, but can you set your climb default to be airspeed instead of feet per minute? That would avoid issues of changing horsepower with altitude, and always give an optimum climb. It would also put you another one up on the competition which demands you pay extra for that feature...
Know it probably won't fall in release one, but can you set your climb default to be airspeed instead of feet per minute? That would avoid issues of changing horsepower with altitude, and always give an optimum climb. It would also put you another one up on the competition which demands you pay extra for that feature...
JonJay
Well Known Member
depends on the competition
This has been standard on Blue Mountain.....
Know it probably won't fall in release one, but can you set your climb default to be airspeed instead of feet per minute? That would avoid issues of changing horsepower with altitude, and always give an optimum climb. It would also put you another one up on the competition which demands you pay extra for that feature...
This has been standard on Blue Mountain.....
Sam Buchanan
been here awhile
Know it probably won't fall in release one, but can you set your climb default to be airspeed instead of feet per minute? That would avoid issues of changing horsepower with altitude, and always give an optimum climb. It would also put you another one up on the competition which demands you pay extra for that feature...
And Trio EZ-Hold.
True, but they are significantly more expensive than the Dynon solution.
Too, I have a Dynon EFIS not a Blue Mountain EFIS, so it doesn't help me even a little!
Brantel
Well Known Member
Is this similar to what you are refering to?
JonJay
Well Known Member
True, but they are significantly more expensive than the Dynon solution.
Too, I have a Dynon EFIS not a Blue Mountain EFIS, so it doesn't help me even a little!
Sorry, did not know who "the competition" you where refering to was as there are so many units available now. At the time, my G3 cost about the same as the Dynon, but there was no comparison in features between the two. The G3 was an entirely different animal, all other issues aside. Not sure where the prices have gone now.
I monitor these discussions as I will be making a choice for my RV3 when the time comes.
Climb and Descent speed
If I understand the system correctly, all you have to do to get the system to use airspeed for climb or descent is to set the speed you want as a minimum and maximum and then command a rate of climb or descent that will exceed that airspeed. The system will try to climb at the rate set and when the airspeed reaches the minimum set, it will fly that speed. Same for descent except in reverse. Am I correct in this Dynon Support?
If I understand the system correctly, all you have to do to get the system to use airspeed for climb or descent is to set the speed you want as a minimum and maximum and then command a rate of climb or descent that will exceed that airspeed. The system will try to climb at the rate set and when the airspeed reaches the minimum set, it will fly that speed. Same for descent except in reverse. Am I correct in this Dynon Support?
We will climb at the vertical speed you set up in the setup menu. But we won't slow down below your minimum speed.
So if you want to climb at an IAS speed instead of a vertical speed, just set your vertical speed to 10,000 ft/min. Since you aren't flying SpaceShipOne, we'lll hit the lower speed limit and climb there.
So if you want to climb at an IAS speed instead of a vertical speed, just set your vertical speed to 10,000 ft/min. Since you aren't flying SpaceShipOne, we'lll hit the lower speed limit and climb there.
I am an early Dynon adopter and I fly Hard IFR with my D100 and TT DII-VSVG coupled to a G-430W. It is incredible. I ache for an interface between the Dynon and the TT A/P and I would love to have it all integrated.
I am a Big time Dynon supporter to the detriment of my wonderful friendship with Jim Younkin. Dynon has brought some incredible technology to the homebuilt world. The prices, functionality, and customer service are wonderful.
For the VFR crowd, the D-AP is really cool, BUT..... for those of us who are IFR operators there is a little problem that everybody is forgetting here.......
No matter how many D-XX units you install, the Pitot tube becomes a single point of failure for the entire instrument system. My TT DII doesn't need pitot info to keep me right side up.
I wouldn't fly IFR in this configuration unless I had a T&B, TT pictorial pilot, vacuum ADI or some kind of battery backed up insturment.
If Dynon came out with an interface to an AHRS with a battery on the DSAB for a fair price to back up the pitot, I would buy one tommorrow.
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
F1-EVO
I am a Big time Dynon supporter to the detriment of my wonderful friendship with Jim Younkin. Dynon has brought some incredible technology to the homebuilt world. The prices, functionality, and customer service are wonderful.
For the VFR crowd, the D-AP is really cool, BUT..... for those of us who are IFR operators there is a little problem that everybody is forgetting here.......
No matter how many D-XX units you install, the Pitot tube becomes a single point of failure for the entire instrument system. My TT DII doesn't need pitot info to keep me right side up.
I wouldn't fly IFR in this configuration unless I had a T&B, TT pictorial pilot, vacuum ADI or some kind of battery backed up insturment.
If Dynon came out with an interface to an AHRS with a battery on the DSAB for a fair price to back up the pitot, I would buy one tommorrow.
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
F1-EVO
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az_gila
Well Known Member
Two pitots...
Doug... if this is really a concern, why not run your back up (second) Dynon from a separate pitot?
gil A
Doug... if this is really a concern, why not run your back up (second) Dynon from a separate pitot?
gil A
Doug,
Please don't assume that our AP will need pitot to perform well. Doing a full blown ADAHRS where the plane could be doing loops, rolls, or who knows what is totally different from just keeping the plane level. Just like most AP's only have a very rudimentary set of sensors inside since they don't need more to do well, we don't need to use our whole platform.
We aren't done with our testing, but we expect to be able to fly the plane just fine without pitot. As always, Dynon will be totally open about our limitations, so we'll tell you if it is safe or not. Let us complete our testing before you dismiss the AP as needing pitot because the ADAHRS does. If missing pitot performance is important to you, ask us when we're shipping and we'll be 100% honest with you.
On a separate note, everyone should consider what their AP will do if the pitot freezes up and slowly drifts to zero. Most AP's will consider this as hitting the minimum airpseed limit and may start a very nice dive right at the ground. Something to ask your AP vendor about before you consider your AP to be a perfect frozen pitot backup.
Please don't assume that our AP will need pitot to perform well. Doing a full blown ADAHRS where the plane could be doing loops, rolls, or who knows what is totally different from just keeping the plane level. Just like most AP's only have a very rudimentary set of sensors inside since they don't need more to do well, we don't need to use our whole platform.
We aren't done with our testing, but we expect to be able to fly the plane just fine without pitot. As always, Dynon will be totally open about our limitations, so we'll tell you if it is safe or not. Let us complete our testing before you dismiss the AP as needing pitot because the ADAHRS does. If missing pitot performance is important to you, ask us when we're shipping and we'll be 100% honest with you.
On a separate note, everyone should consider what their AP will do if the pitot freezes up and slowly drifts to zero. Most AP's will consider this as hitting the minimum airpseed limit and may start a very nice dive right at the ground. Something to ask your AP vendor about before you consider your AP to be a perfect frozen pitot backup.
Dynon,
My flying -7 has a D-10A, SL-30, and MD200-306 CDI which provides OBS service for the SL-30. If I want to ditch the CDI and rely on a D-100's HSI for the current project, I need something to fill the OBS function of the CDI. (The SL-30 doesn't allow me to use its knobs to select a radial on the active nav frequency.) One of your tech guys told me that I need the HS34 to fill the roll of OBS for the SL-30. So two questions:
Will the AP74 (76?) act as a resolver OBS for the SL-30?
Can I set up the SL-30 differently to enable selecting the nav radial from its panel to drive the HSI?
I'm certainly hoping I don't need both HS and AP peripherals.
John Siebold
Boise, ID
My flying -7 has a D-10A, SL-30, and MD200-306 CDI which provides OBS service for the SL-30. If I want to ditch the CDI and rely on a D-100's HSI for the current project, I need something to fill the OBS function of the CDI. (The SL-30 doesn't allow me to use its knobs to select a radial on the active nav frequency.) One of your tech guys told me that I need the HS34 to fill the roll of OBS for the SL-30. So two questions:
Will the AP74 (76?) act as a resolver OBS for the SL-30?
Can I set up the SL-30 differently to enable selecting the nav radial from its panel to drive the HSI?
I'm certainly hoping I don't need both HS and AP peripherals.
John Siebold
Boise, ID
John,
You can use the OBS knob on the SL-30 to set the OBS. We have hundreds of customers that do this no problem.
The only issue with using the SL-30 OBS knob is that when you are on an ILS, you need to use the buttons on the EFIS to set the course. We support this too.
All you need to do to make this work is to set the resolver on the SL-30 to "none." Yeah, this sounds weird, but it's right.
The AP74 or 76 won't set the course on the SL-30 for you. You'd need the HS34 to do that, or you can just use the OBS on the SL30.
Of course, you don't have to have the AP74 or 76 either unless they do what you want.
You can use the OBS knob on the SL-30 to set the OBS. We have hundreds of customers that do this no problem.
The only issue with using the SL-30 OBS knob is that when you are on an ILS, you need to use the buttons on the EFIS to set the course. We support this too.
All you need to do to make this work is to set the resolver on the SL-30 to "none." Yeah, this sounds weird, but it's right.
The AP74 or 76 won't set the course on the SL-30 for you. You'd need the HS34 to do that, or you can just use the OBS on the SL30.
Of course, you don't have to have the AP74 or 76 either unless they do what you want.
D-support,
First of all, it is good news that the A/P should work without pitot.
Here is an idea for you guys to kick around.... What if a simple battery powered GPS engine (or the handheld that most of us use for WX and B/U) was hooked to the serial input on the D100 or D10. If the power failed, the HS-34 dies, the pitot tube freezes up, and the if the pitot became erratic, the Dynon could warn the pilot and either automatically or by button push revert to GPS for airspeed info. This would be a great additition.
The second pitot tube solution doesn't solve the electrical failure in cold WX.... They would both freeze up simaltaneously.
With regard to the airspeed situation on competing A/Ps, (TT for sure, I don't know about others) you are correct. I have planned 2 solutions for that scenario, the first is to turn of the pitch servo, a couple button strokes. The second action would be to set the min A/S to zero. Then I could reengage pitch control. That takes a few more button strokes. The TT doesn't use A/S at all, only to protect from over/underspeed. That would depend on the weather underneath me if I would bother with that solution...
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
F-1 EVO
First of all, it is good news that the A/P should work without pitot.
Here is an idea for you guys to kick around.... What if a simple battery powered GPS engine (or the handheld that most of us use for WX and B/U) was hooked to the serial input on the D100 or D10. If the power failed, the HS-34 dies, the pitot tube freezes up, and the if the pitot became erratic, the Dynon could warn the pilot and either automatically or by button push revert to GPS for airspeed info. This would be a great additition.
The second pitot tube solution doesn't solve the electrical failure in cold WX.... They would both freeze up simaltaneously.
With regard to the airspeed situation on competing A/Ps, (TT for sure, I don't know about others) you are correct. I have planned 2 solutions for that scenario, the first is to turn of the pitch servo, a couple button strokes. The second action would be to set the min A/S to zero. Then I could reengage pitch control. That takes a few more button strokes. The TT doesn't use A/S at all, only to protect from over/underspeed. That would depend on the weather underneath me if I would bother with that solution...
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
F-1 EVO
More info please...
Dynon, great product addition!
I'm really curious about the details of the AP74 operation. Like, what if you're locked up to the GPS course and ATC gives you an avoidance vector? Can you punch the HDG button and the hdg bug is "alive" to turn the plane with the VALUE knob? What happens when you're given "resume own nav", can you punch NAV and the autopilot will intercept the original GPS course?
So many questions, how long until the docs come out?
Thanks.
Dynon, great product addition!
I'm really curious about the details of the AP74 operation. Like, what if you're locked up to the GPS course and ATC gives you an avoidance vector? Can you punch the HDG button and the hdg bug is "alive" to turn the plane with the VALUE knob? What happens when you're given "resume own nav", can you punch NAV and the autopilot will intercept the original GPS course?
So many questions, how long until the docs come out?
Thanks.
Hey - no worries! I attended when Rick (Blue Mountain) spoke at LZU - we have one of the largest active EAA chapters - and he seems like a great guy. I just don't own one of his products, so the "price" would include throwing out my D-180 (which I'm not inclined to do) and wiring up yet another unit (which I definitely don't want to have to go through again!).
I'm a bit disheartened that you can't do "coupled approach mode" when you have a Garmin GNS 480 and an HS34 but not the extra dash unit; my understanding is that all of the steering commands are in the NMEA stream, and it ought to have been a "pass through." I would have considered selling my TT and upgraded if not for the extra $1500 as it should have put money back in my pocket. It still might, but could I recover most of the money I spent on the VSGV now that this option is out there? Maybe not, and that's not til the end of summer and then I'd be an early adopter etc.
Still, the 480 is now officially a dead product and I don't expect Dynon to spend a great deal of time making their product compatible.
Scott Hersha
Well Known Member
To Dynon tech support
Will you be able to couple to localizer and glide slope using an SL-30 without the HS34, -74,-76? I know you said it will track an SL-30 course, I guess my question is will it also follow vertical commands on the HSI without any other of your modules?
Thanks,
Scott Hersha
Will you be able to couple to localizer and glide slope using an SL-30 without the HS34, -74,-76? I know you said it will track an SL-30 course, I guess my question is will it also follow vertical commands on the HSI without any other of your modules?
Thanks,
Scott Hersha
647jc
Well Known Member
To Dynonsupport:
Is the 'disconnect' signal to the Servo intended to be a mometary contact to ground via a pushbutton that would take the AP off-line or would it be a toggle switch type interface that would need to be held at ground potential to keep the Servo off-line. Also, can both Servo's 'disconnect' lines be tied together and controlled with the same single pole switch or should they be kept seperate.
Is the 'disconnect' signal to the Servo intended to be a mometary contact to ground via a pushbutton that would take the AP off-line or would it be a toggle switch type interface that would need to be held at ground potential to keep the Servo off-line. Also, can both Servo's 'disconnect' lines be tied together and controlled with the same single pole switch or should they be kept seperate.
Wanna see pictures?
This may have already been mentioned, if so please forgive me.
For those that are interested, Dynon updated their Panel Planner handout. If you want to see what the new servos and expansion modules look like.
Look here->>http://www.dynonavionics.com/downloads/Brochures/Mini_Postcard_Catalog_Web.pdf
If you want to print it (for full size cut-outs) remember to turn off page scaling before printing.
This may have already been mentioned, if so please forgive me.
For those that are interested, Dynon updated their Panel Planner handout. If you want to see what the new servos and expansion modules look like.
Look here->>http://www.dynonavionics.com/downloads/Brochures/Mini_Postcard_Catalog_Web.pdf
If you want to print it (for full size cut-outs) remember to turn off page scaling before printing.
bigbill25
Well Known Member
Good catch. That's the first I've seen of it officially on their website, even though I received my copy of Kitplanes two days ago...
--Bill
bigbill25
Well Known Member
True to your word, the info is now up:
http://www.dynonavionics.com/docs/news_announcing_autopilot.html
--Bill
http://www.dynonavionics.com/docs/news_announcing_autopilot.html
--Bill
alpinelakespilot2000
Well Known Member
Dynon-
Any chance you might offer the optional autopilot modules in a 3-1/8" circular form factor? I have this gaping hole in my not-yet-flying panel that I had intended to to use for a Trio autopilot!
Any chance you might offer the optional autopilot modules in a 3-1/8" circular form factor? I have this gaping hole in my not-yet-flying panel that I had intended to to use for a Trio autopilot!
alpinelakespilot2000: we don't have plans for any other form factors at this time.
allbee: Yes, you'll be able to update your current EFIS-D10A, EFIS-D100, or FlightDEK-D180, hook up servos, configure , and go fly (or rather, have your Dynon autopilot fly for you)
davcor: We're planning on shipping sometime this summer. We plan on having installation kits for most of the RVs available too (you guys will essentially be our first "fully supported" customers).
allbee: Yes, you'll be able to update your current EFIS-D10A, EFIS-D100, or FlightDEK-D180, hook up servos, configure , and go fly (or rather, have your Dynon autopilot fly for you)
davcor: We're planning on shipping sometime this summer. We plan on having installation kits for most of the RVs available too (you guys will essentially be our first "fully supported" customers).
cytoxin
Well Known Member
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rjcthree
Well Known Member
Dynon group buy idea
I saw a group buy idea mentioned, thought that it sounded like a good plan . . . if Stein can sell over 100 trim controllers (including one to me), I figure this group could soak up 50 sets of 2 axis servos and AP74's in a hurry. Probably have to run it a little different, deposit based at Dynon . . .
Just a thought.
Rick 90432, working fuse - *!)(@!^$&! roll bar, to be precise
9A, tip-up, 320, D180 anchoring the panel
I saw a group buy idea mentioned, thought that it sounded like a good plan . . . if Stein can sell over 100 trim controllers (including one to me), I figure this group could soak up 50 sets of 2 axis servos and AP74's in a hurry. Probably have to run it a little different, deposit based at Dynon . . .
Just a thought.
Rick 90432, working fuse - *!)(@!^$&! roll bar, to be precise
9A, tip-up, 320, D180 anchoring the panel
