Although I'm building a -14, I have several friends (and posters on this board) that are building -10's and we had an opportunity to take a very close look at the -10 seats last Saturday. The idea was to brainstorm and see how realistic it would be to make our own or possibly reverse engineer the seats.
An abbreviated list of our observations is below:
- The seats are ultra simple
- There are a total of 10 welds on the seats. Four of them are spot welds for bolts, 2 are on a very basic torque tube and 4 are where tubing comes together. The only welds that would take any minor skill are where the tubing meets the tubing (4 places).
- We originally believed the getting the bends in the tubing correct would be tough, this is not the case.
- The most complex portion of the seat appears to be the aluminum extrusion that slides over the seat rails. This part would be very difficult to manufacture by unless you're in a business that produces extrusions.
- There is nothing else on the seat that couldn't be made by a first year machinist with a mill in a short period of time.
- The seats are already assembled (bolted together). Anybody on this forum has has completed most of the the first chapter of their build could assemble each seat in an hour or two. The assembly is just bolted together yet the seats are sent assembled increasing shipping costs and creating an additional step for the manufacturer.
Sunday, we had a conversation with a well known industry manufacturer (and advertiser on this site) and showed him pictures and measurements. He stated that the extrusion would be the toughest part to develop and that making the seat rails would not be difficult. He had concerns about the patent number listed on the canvas portion of the seat. He also believed that the head to extrude the aluminum could be made rather inexpensively.
It is our opinion that there is something else going on here. Profit is not a dirty word and all companies need to make good margin, Van's is no different. I wish them the best and hope that they survive and in the end make excellent margins. However, it is
my opinion that there is a difference between what is legal and what is ethical with regard to the current cost of the seats. I'll leave it at that.
The manufacturer we spoke with is interested in looking into making the seats. However, he had 3 main concerns: 1) what is the realistic demand/volume? 2) what would be a fair or acceptable price to the market? 3) is there a patent on the seat itself?. Based on what he saw, he also thought that perhaps the pricing was in error and that Vans may revisit what they are charging for the seats when they have the opportunity or find a solution.
Ultimately, he believed if the shop drawings became available the problem could have a solution in a reasonably short period of time.
Anybody out there have access to the shop/dimensional drawings?