Most of the stuff in my saved items stayed the same. Fiberglass parts almost doubled though. Of course I just checked one. Vertical stab top fairing rv12iS was $75 ->$135. Careful trimming your fiberglass ;)
 
Note

Desert Rat said:
The store is back open for individual parts. This statement is on their website re: kit pricing and deposit process going forward.

https://www.vansaircraft.com/2023/1...k0MJJwbKEbaAr1CbKk44y38xtbdan0OpcULPAPTioL_0Y
Click to expand...

Note that there are no additions or deletions to the kits; my question is are they going to accept returns for items not used in the stock kits, for example, let’s say you don’t want to use the stock windows. You cannot delete them but can you return them?

Note that this is a hypothetical example, and yes I know the shipping would be cost prohibitive.
 
Price increases....

Desert Rat said:
The store is back open for individual parts. This statement is on their website re: kit pricing and deposit process going forward.
https://www.vansaircraft.com/2023/1...k0MJJwbKEbaAr1CbKk44y38xtbdan0OpcULPAPTioL_0Y
Click to expand...

Glad I ordered my pressure-recovery wheel fairings before The Change. Pretty good jump in price there.:eek: Necessary, however. They are doing what is necessary to keep us builders/flyers able to build/maintain our amazing aircraft!
 
rocketman1988 said:
Note that there are no additions or deletions to the kits; my question is are they going to accept returns for items not used in the stock kits, for example, let’s say you don’t want to use the stock windows. You cannot delete them but can you return them?

Note that this is a hypothetical example, and yes I know the shipping would be cost prohibitive.
Click to expand...

Your guess is as good as mine but if their objective is to simplify the shipping department as they say in the announcement handling a large number of returns is not a good option. So I would guess no.

Oliver
 
Just checked my 12 canopy latch kit on back order since July. Went from $135 to $235, a 75% increase. Hate to see what happens to my powerplant kit that was supposed to crate in November. Hope it is a more reasonable markup and can be crated soon.
 
The firewall forward kit for my -7 appears unchanged. Hopefully I'll still get an engine to attach it all to. :)
 
After reading the blurb on the parts page, I must say this is the first time I've seen Vans approach their ordering/purchasing policy like a real business. In the past it's felt much more like a handshake operation with more latitude for the customer than reasonable. Great for a growing business, if they can pull it off, but a nightmare for an up and running operation.

My personal tour of the plant back in 2017 left me with the impression that they were still operating the in the growing business mode and pulling their hair out as a result. Their shipping department looked like a makeshift hospital ER, blood and all.

For those who remember Barb ("next time include your builder number in ALL your correspondence!", what a great gal!) ... she was the enzyme that allowed the operation to function, and when she left (IMHO) the cracks started to appear on the outside and the demise began.

This new Vans may not be as warm and fuzzy as the old Vans, but hopefully these well laid agreements will help them continue into a healthy future.
 
Are you correct about the wheel fairings? I thought they used to be $500 each and are now $1000 for an aircraft set.
 
I'm honestly quite happy to see these changes. Everything laid out in their announcement makes a lot of sense and points to a much more organized and sustainable business model. Sure, the kit price jump seems large, but based on the prices of other kits out there, it still seems reasonable to me. We've gotten used to Van's being "cheap." Now it may not be cheap, but I'd still call it a good value relative to what else is out there.

Just for kicks I took a look at the price of parts that I have ordered in the last few years to fix my mistakes. Most of them were aluminum parts made in-house. A lot of them went up significantly, some almost double in price. At first that's jolting, but when you think about it, $34 to replace a tank rib that I buggered up (vs the $17 I actually paid) is really still pretty reasonable and still makes the cost of Van's laughably cheap compared to dealing with part costs for the old Cessna sitting on the ramp. The prices are going to sting a little bit more for sure, but I'm still glad they're taking a critical look and fixing their mistakes. The company is full of amazing staff, but their business processes just didn't keep up with the changing business. Hopefully this is a corner they turn with these changes, making Van's viable for decades to come. Short term irritation and pain for long term viability.
 
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skelrad said:
I'm honestly quite happy to see these changes. Everything laid out in their announcement makes a lot of sense and points to a much more organized and sustainable business model. Sure, the kit price jump seems large, but based on the prices of other kits out there, it still seems reasonable to me. We've gotten used to Van's being "cheap." Now it may not be cheap, but I'd still call it a good value relative to what else is out there.

Just for kicks I took a look at the price of parts that I have ordered in the last few years to fix my mistakes. Most of them were aluminum parts made in-house. A lot of them went up significantly, some almost double in price. At first that's jolting, but when you think about it, $34 to replace a tank rib that I buggered up (vs the $17 I actually paid) is really still pretty reasonable (take a look at a Cessna wing rib price - you're going to be out a couple hundred bucks).
Click to expand...

One of many examples where Vans made parts doubled in price. I understand for the 3rd party parts they have less control. Many of these increases don't seem to jive with the 32% increase they announced,
 
fr0gpil0t said:
One of many examples where Vans made parts doubled in price. I understand for the 3rd party parts they have less control. Many of these increases don't seem to jive with the 32% increase they announced,
Click to expand...

I fully expected much higher parts prices than kit prices. That fits what I've noticed many places. I would guess that when they looked at prices across the entire company, if they applied a similar increase to everything, the kit increase would have had to go up even more than 32%. Pumping up the price of parts to help keep overall kit price increases lower makes sense to me. I'd rather pay double for a handful of parts I need once in a while vs another 5% on kits.
 
Sure hope they will make an exception to the additions policy of kits regarding adding a longeron or two to a kit. Would really suck to have to ship that one...
 
Wheel fairings.....

penguin said:
Are you correct about the wheel fairings? I thought they used to be $500 each and are now $1000 for an aircraft set.
Click to expand...

Quite. I paid $545.00 USD for the pair and installation kit with $30 USD shipping. They are now listed for $953.25 USD for the fairings and kit. They were shipped in a large cardboard box; no wood. They are currently sitting in my hangar patiently waiting for me to get finished with all the other things I am in the middle doing with her.

When I was first looking at the fairings, I thought they were $500 :eek: each as well; it was something I was not doing correctly. Now: they actually are!
 
I have an open order for a few parts. The expensive items ($685 rear window, $130 glareshield) haven't increased in price at all. On the other hand, a piece of plastic tubing has increased from $2.25 to $3.94. <sarcasm>How will I ever afford this?</sarcasm>
 
I wonder how they will handle orders where the deletions have already been processed and confirmed. Folks that have deleted stock parts and purchased Beringer wheels, zip tips, showplaces cowls, or other expensive items are not going to be happy. The deletions help justify the price of the aftermarket stuff.

This is also going to put a serious pinch on those vendors
 
RV3

I noticed that the RV4 order a kit page is still up, but not for the 3. I suspect they are going to dump the 3 like they did the 6. Sad, I knew a couple of people who were thinking about building a 3, and I probably would have built another as well.
 
rkensrud said:
I wonder how they will handle orders where the deletions have already been processed and confirmed. Folks that have deleted stock parts and purchased Beringer wheels, zip tips, showplaces cowls, or other expensive items are not going to be happy. The deletions help justify the price of the aftermarket stuff.

This is also going to put a serious pinch on those vendors
Click to expand...


Yeah $3k for the top and bottom cowl makes the Sam James cowl look very affordable
 
semiller1184 said:
I noticed that the RV4 order a kit page is still up, but not for the 3. I suspect they are going to dump the 3 like they did the 6. Sad, I knew a couple of people who were thinking about building a 3, and I probably would have built another as well.
Click to expand...

I wonder how many RV-3 kits they sell a year. Gordon Ramsay would never tolerate the breadth of the Van’s kit catalog and it makes sense to cut out the kits that cost more to keep on the menu than they earn. It will be a little sad for those of us who dreamed of building an RV-3 to lose the chance, but it would be even sadder for Van’s to screw up the RV-11 and everyone to lose the chance to build or finish any member of the RV family.

As a consolation prize, I would imagine that they will retain the ability to produce RV-3 parts so those that are complete can stay in the air longer, increasing the resale value of those planes.
 
semiller1184 said:
I noticed that the RV4 order a kit page is still up, but not for the 3. I suspect they are going to dump the 3 like they did the 6. Sad, I knew a couple of people who were thinking about building a 3, and I probably would have built another as well.
Click to expand...

In the future, I may sell my 90% complete RV3 at early 2023 prices. PM only. Please do not comment here about this post.
 
I analyzed latest prices against my recent orders, and it seems like price increase for the individual airframe parts is flat +75%.
 
It will be interesting to see how they decide to treat customers who have deposits down on kits. I have a deposit down on the -14 QB fuse kit. If that kit goes up 32%, I'd pay another 4,160.00 than planned. I'll wait and see what their offer is, but I don't have a good feeling about it.
 
The no part deletions could really hurt third party parts vendors. I was going to switch to a Sam James cowl if I could delete the cowl from the kit the price difference would be not that much (actually at the new prices the SJ cowl is actually less expensive) but now I would have to buy the SJ cowl and then try to sell the old one. That probably wouldn't be to bad for something small like brakes but the cowl would be really difficult to ship.
 
Nothing prevents any of you from just ordering the parts you need and not the "kit". In other words stop thinking deletions from the kit.

I purchased my Sam James cowl, Sam James induction, grove wheels and brakes, Toms hoses etc. Never deleted a thing. Just ordered what I needed when I needed.

Arnie
 
semiller1184 said:
I noticed that the RV4 order a kit page is still up, but not for the 3. I suspect they are going to dump the 3 like they did the 6. Sad, I knew a couple of people who were thinking about building a 3, and I probably would have built another as well.
Click to expand...

I am confused why people continue to promote this narrative.
The 6 was never dumped. It was replaced by an aircraft that was basically a redesign of the six, but had enough differences that it was given a new model number. The RV-7.
And support of the six was continued for those builders that were still not finished with their project when the seven was introduced.
 
The problem with this is that for many builders, especially the newer ones, they don't know what's in a particular kit. They'd need the plans (which are usually in the kit) and the inventory list (which comes with it).

Also, historically, the a la carte price has usually been higher than the kit price. So the savings might not be much if that continues.

Dave
 
regarding the no deletions policy, yeah, it's a unwelcome change, but I think probably a necessary one. It will hopefully greatly reduce lead times on some of those kits. Since they will all be cookie cutter they can just keep packing them up one right after the other. When somebody orders a finishing kit for example, they can just grab the next big box off the shelf and shove it in the truck. No more days and days of expensive labor to assemble an a la carte order after it gets ordered.

Yeah, you're going to get some stuff you don't want, but when you think about it, thats the way the rest of the world works and we don't question it. I've got a jeep with some aftermarket stuff on it and Chrysler didn't let me order it with no suspension just because I was going to put aftermarket stuff on it after the fact.

We'll likely just do what we've always done with those products- Try to sell whatever we don't want on the used market to recoup some of the cost.

I also don't this that it's necessarily a bad thing that individual parts prices have gone up more that the magic 32% number. Historically, replacement parts have always been a huge profit center for vehicle manufacturers that help keep the initial purchase price a bit lower. Going back to the car example, if you applied replacement part pricing, even a middle of the road a new Chevy would cost a couple hundred thousand dollars.
 
Mark Dickens said:
It will be interesting to see how they decide to treat customers who have deposits down on kits. I have a deposit down on the -14 QB fuse kit. If that kit goes up 32%, I'd pay another 4,160.00 than planned. I'll wait and see what their offer is, but I don't have a good feeling about it.
Click to expand...

I believe they have already announced this as part of the Chapter 11 proceeding. They are going to reject your existing order and give you a choice:
1) Accept the new price and terms as if you had made the order today, in which case your previous deposit gets applied to the “new” order
OR
2) cancel your order and join the list of unsecured creditors in the bankruptcy hoping to be compensated
 
If you build a Chevrolet from purchased parts, it will cost you many times over than buying a completed car.

I suspect the same will happen. Buy a kit will be a bargain vs buying the individual pieces.

I don’t have a crystal ball but this is my prediction. If you mess up a piece, you will pay the price.
 
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Webb said:
If you build a Chevrolet from parts, it will cost you many times over what it would if you bought parts and built it.

I suspect the same will happen. Buy a kit will be a bargain vs buying the individual pieces.

I don’t have a crystal ball but this is my prediction. If you mess up a piece, you will pay the price.
Click to expand...

Maybe now when they say "build on" people will listen instead of going to the trouble of sending the engineers photos and deciding to just buy new stuff anyways.
 
idubrov said:
I analyzed latest prices against my recent orders, and it seems like price increase for the individual airframe parts is flat +75%.
Click to expand...

I see a different story. I checked every laser-cut part I am considering replacing in my fuse kit, and the prices are the same as they were a month ago.
 
I still can't believe they're sticking with a fixed price model for the kits. Now you pay an additional 10% more up front to get the ball rolling and the remainder 60 days before the kit goes to crating??

Maybe they're counting on the kit lead times dropping way down to something reasonable??
 
Just looked and the RV14 and RV10 order forms are back up if you access them from the respective aircraft page.

The 35% deposit isn't calculating correctly tho as it's defaulting to full kit price instead of 35%.
 
APicard said:
Just looked and the RV14 and RV10 order forms are back up if you access them from the respective aircraft page.

The 35% deposit isn't calculating correctly tho as it's defaulting to full kit price instead of 35%.
Click to expand...

$86,100 for a slow build RV10....$111,700 for a QB RV10.
 
gotyoke said:
I see a different story. I checked every laser-cut part I am considering replacing in my fuse kit, and the prices are the same as they were a month ago.
Click to expand...

My dataset is pretty small, ~60 items I've bought for empennage / fuselage of RV-7 over 2022/2023. I don't have any data for any of the LCP parts, just didn't happen to order those.
 
Note!

The first term and condition on kit orders is
“1. Kit prices are subject to change, up to the date the kit final payment request”

So you could lock in your “now” price and the price could jump another 10% when it’s time to pay. Smart for them but bad for the buyer given the current economy and lead times.
 
squeakersc063 said:
Maybe now when they say "build on" people will listen instead of going to the trouble of sending the engineers photos and deciding to just buy new stuff anyways.
Click to expand...

I think this phase is over now. You'll have to wait and see what Van's decides to do here on replacement parts.
 
For the 14 and 10 kit pages that have been updated, it seems they are still subsidizing the QB’s with the other offerings. Not enough premium for the QB’s IMHO.
 
Engines... I don't understand

I don't understand something. There's a lot of concern about how much the price will go up for engines. Rotax? Lycoming? Well, whatever, isn't there a cap? How can the price go up beyond what you can buy it direct from Lycoming or Rotax? If it does, then direct purchase is the way to go. Yes, if you have a deposit in place w/Van's then you'd have to abandon your order, and perhaps the deposit.

Regarding abandoning orders, a lot of folks have been saying 'join the creditors get pennies on the dollar'. I predict deposits will be (largely) refunded. You may have to wait a long time, you may not get a full refund, and you may get paid in installments. But saying you'll only maybe get 5% of your money back strikes me as very pessimistic.

Also if Van's did raise the price of engines beyond Lycoming list price it will basically end the practice of buying the engine through Van's. It would streamline ops. But, it could hurt business somewhat as you'd not offer 'one stop shopping'.
 
sc_pilot said:
Most of the stuff in my saved items stayed the same. Fiberglass parts almost doubled though. Of course I just checked one. Vertical stab top fairing rv12iS was $75 ->$135. Careful trimming your fiberglass ;)
Click to expand...

Anyone know if fiberglass is done in-house or from a supplier?
 
Not sure but I think 3rd party. I had to get 3 rv12is top cowls before I got a good one. First two had uncured resin in the middle and were soft. One even had the QC inspection sticker next to a gigantic air bubble hole. Like how do you do that? Also had a bad spot of resin on a tailcone fairing… all the damaged ones I repaired since I was bored waiting on my next kits, but it was involved. Grinding out uncured resin was like cancer that just seemed to spread the more I’d grind away. On a positive note, all replacement top cowls were comp’ed by vans so good on them for that.
 
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I have to say, this is a bitter pill to swallow. On the one hand, I’m happy to help the company to survive by paying a bit more.

On the other hand, I delayed the shipment of my finishing kit twice when Vans asked for volunteers to do so, with the promise it would ship later at an agreed upon date for the same price. Some of us who didn’t quite need a certain kit “right now” were happy to give up our places in line so others in more need could build on. This was Vans asking to do this, not us (the customer). It is what it is, and I’m thankful to be well along in the project as opposed to just starting out. Rant over, if this is what it takes for the company to survive then it will be worth it…
 
I have two huge X factors right now:

1. When will I get my remaining kits delivered and how much will the price increase between now and then, above the 32% today?
2. What ultimately happens with the prop/engine deposits I have and any corresponding increases?

These factors will determine whether I build on or become an unsecured creditor. I would love to build this plane, but I don't have the capital to get a whole lot beyond my planned budget plus, the 15% contingency I built in. The music is still playing, but not sure if I'm going to be able to stay on the dance floor.
 
Roadjunkie1 said:
Quite. I paid $545.00 USD for the pair and installation kit with $30 USD shipping. They are now listed for $953.25 USD for the fairings and kit. They were shipped in a large cardboard box; no wood. They are currently sitting in my hangar patiently waiting for me to get finished with all the other things I am in the middle doing with her.

When I was first looking at the fairings, I thought they were $500 :eek: each as well; it was something I was not doing correctly. Now: they actually are!
Click to expand...

Yep, I confirmed that too. I had PR wheel fairings and gear leg fairings in my cart for 1+ month and the old prices were still shown. Once I went to check out, the prices updated. And each of those kits is 75% higher now.
 
The aft half of my PR fairings have been on backorder for a month or more.


You were able to order them today?
My order was from Oct 8th, part# VA-157B-1

Thanks
A
 
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Webb said:
If you build a Chevrolet from parts, it will cost you many times over what it would if you bought parts and built it. <SNIP> .........
Click to expand...

Did you mean if you bought a completed car instead of building from parts..?? :confused:
 
PCHunt said:
Did you mean if you bought a completed car instead of building from parts..?? :confused:
Click to expand...

Reworded on the post. Thanks.

Yes it was intended to say that to buy the parts individually would cost a lot more than purchasing the completed car.
 
squeakersc063 said:
Maybe now when they say "build on" people will listen instead of going to the trouble of sending the engineers photos and deciding to just buy new stuff anyways.
Click to expand...

I like my -6A since the plans provided gave me the drawings to make most parts myself. I have done that multiple times over the last 20 years.
Good walk down memory lane of the early days of EAB.
 
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