Why yes, as a matter of fact I am that cheap (tailwheel chains)

[Desert Rat]

I was rigging my tailwheel steering yesterday and had the same issues that others have reported; chains hitting the lower rudder fairing at full travel, impossible to get the spring clips sprung enough to install and then collapsed back so they don't fall off without adding a big wad of safety wire, etc.etc.etc.

I had decided to go the same route that so many other folks have and use the AN42B eye bolts and a simple add-a-link chain link back there. Imagine my surprise when I discovered Spruce isn't the least bit ashamed to charge $12 each for those things. With shipping and tax, that's gotta run close to $60!

So this morning I took my cheap self down to the Yard Store here in Wichita and lo and behold, they had some 2" long AN42B in their surplus hardware building. For the whopping price of $12 a POUND. I walked out with a handful of those as well as a bunch of other random stuff.

I took them home and spend about a hour cutting threads the rest of the way down the shank with the el cheapo harbor freight tap and die I happened to have at the house. Yeah it would have been easier to cut them off first so I didn't have to cut som many threads, but the reason I was at the house is because thats where my bench vise is, and it turns out my dremmel and evidently every hack saw I own was at the hangar.

Anyway, when I got to the hangar this afternoon I cut them down to an appropriate length, which turned out be around 5/8".

I have to say, I'm pretty happy with how this turned out and the best part was, Including the two stainless add-a-link couplers it was only about $9 bucks.

If anybody is going this route, has a tap and die set, and doesn't want to pay $12 bucks a pop for these at spruce, let me know and I'll go back down there, grab another handful and mail you a ship set (4) for what, like maybe $5 bucks to cover my gas and the postage?

 

[rvbuilder2002]

I was rigging my tailwheel steering yesterday and had the same issues that others have reported; chains hitting the lower rudder fairing at full travel, impossible to get the spring clips sprung enough to install and then collapsed back so they don't fall off without adding a big wad of safety wire, etc.etc.etc.

I had decided to go the same route that so many other folks have and use the AN42B eye bolts and a simple add-a-link chain link back there. Imagine my surprise when I discovered Spruce isn't the least bit ashamed to charge $12 each for those things. With shipping and tax, that's gotta run close to $60!

So this morning I took my cheap self down to the Yard Store here in Wichita and lo and behold, they had some 2" long AN42B in their surplus hardware building. For the whopping price of $12 a POUND. I walked out with a handful of those as well as a bunch of other random stuff.

I took them home and spend about a hour cutting threads the rest of the way down the shank with the el cheapo harbor freight tap and die I happened to have at the house. Yeah it would have been easier to cut them off first so I didn't have to cut som many threads, but the reason I was at the house is because thats where my bench vise is, and it turns out my dremmel and evidently every hack saw I own was at the hangar.

Anyway, when I got to the hangar this afternoon I cut them down to an appropriate length, which turned out be around 5/8".

I have to say, I'm pretty happy with how this turned out and the best part was, Including the two stainless add-a-link couplers it was only about $9 bucks.

If anybody is going this route, has a tap and die set, and doesn't want to pay $12 bucks a pop for these at spruce, let me know and I'll go back down there, grab another handful and mail you a ship set (4) for what, like maybe $5 bucks to cover my gas and the postage?

I don’t know if it will matter regarding the fatigue life / longevity of your modified parts but the threads on AN hardware when it is produced are not cut with a die or other thread cutting tools.
They are rolled on.
Cutting threads on hardware for use on an aircraft is considered a big no-no.

 

[Desert Rat]

I don’t know if it will matter regarding the fatigue life / longevity of your modified parts but the threads on AN hardware when it is produced are not cut with a die or other thread cutting tools.
They are rolled on.
Cutting threads on hardware for use on an aircraft is considered a big no-no.

I understand, but feel like in this application the chances of it causing a problem are relatively minor. Especially when you consider that the hardware store chain they're pulling on is so soft I believe It's literally the weak link in the system. I wouldn't cut threads in something like an aileron hinge bolt. I guess time will tell.

 

[Webb]

While you’re at it, replace the chains with cables. Much stronger than the chains. There are some threads with pics of cables instead of chains.

 

[Scott Hersha]

Nice job Terry. I wouldn’t worry about the cut threads. As you say, the chains are the weak point, and they are more than adequate. I did a similar thing using cables, also inexpensive and purchased from HD. SS cable, thimbles and collets. I already had a hydraulic crimper that secured the collets. Anything is better than those nasty clips that come with the kit.

 

[RV6_flyer]

While you’re at it, replace the chains with cables. Much stronger than the chains. There are some threads with pics of cables instead of chains.

I replaced the chains at 300 hours. 300 hours later, the replacements were also stretched so switched to cables. The cables were still good when I detected wear on the springs, clevis pins, and all the other replaceable parts. Had to make new cables as the parts were not the same length as the old.

 

[Desert Rat]

Webb-

Thats a great suggestion, but as of now, I have exactly zero RV tailwheel time. I'm unsure how tight or loose I want the steering back there. I figure with the chains it's easier for me to dial that in. Once I get comfortable with the plane and figure out how I want it set up I may switch to cables.

Gary-

Whether chains or cables, the advantage I see to using eye bolts is basically what your'e describing. A few years ago a friend bought a RV6 with the standard setup and about 1000 hours on it. The spring clips had worn significant grooves in the holes in the aluminum rudder horn.

It's much easier to address something like that if the wear item is a piece of hardware that can be can be tossed and easily replaced.

 

[FinnFlyer]

+1 on the cables. (I made mine a bit too long )
I don't understand why people still use those draggy boat mooring springs.

 

[RV6_flyer]

Gary-

Whether chains or cables, the advantage I see to using eye bolts is basically what your'e describing. A few years ago a friend bought a RV6 with the standard setup and about 1000 hours on it. The spring clips had worn significant grooves in the holes in the aluminum rudder horn.

It's much easier to address something like that if the wear item is a piece of hardware that can be can be tossed and easily replaced.

Exactly why I built the airplane with the extra parts, work, and expense. I thought down the road 26 years and 3,500+ flying hours would be worth it.

 

[Taltruda]

+1 on the cables. (I made mine a bit too long )
I don't understand why people still use those draggy boat mooring springs.
View attachment 61015

This is a sweet setup.. I like how it doesn’t torque or twist the arms like the OP setup with the standoffs.. this way provides a straight pill on both arms.

 

[[email protected]]

I was rigging my tailwheel steering yesterday and had the same issues that others have reported; chains hitting the lower rudder fairing at full travel, impossible to get the spring clips sprung enough to install and then collapsed back so they don't fall off without adding a big wad of safety wire, etc.etc.etc.

I had decided to go the same route that so many other folks have and use the AN42B eye bolts and a simple add-a-link chain link back there. Imagine my surprise when I discovered Spruce isn't the least bit ashamed to charge $12 each for those things. With shipping and tax, that's gotta run close to $60!

So this morning I took my cheap self down to the Yard Store here in Wichita and lo and behold, they had some 2" long AN42B in their surplus hardware building. For the whopping price of $12 a POUND. I walked out with a handful of those as well as a bunch of other random stuff.

I took them home and spend about a hour cutting threads the rest of the way down the shank with the el cheapo harbor freight tap and die I happened to have at the house. Yeah it would have been easier to cut them off first so I didn't have to cut som many threads, but the reason I was at the house is because thats where my bench vise is, and it turns out my dremmel and evidently every hack saw I own was at the hangar.

Anyway, when I got to the hangar this afternoon I cut them down to an appropriate length, which turned out be around 5/8".

I have to say, I'm pretty happy with how this turned out and the best part was, Including the two stainless add-a-link couplers it was only about $9 bucks.

If anybody is going this route, has a tap and die set, and doesn't want to pay $12 bucks a pop for these at spruce, let me know and I'll go back down there, grab another handful and mail you a ship set (4) for what, like maybe $5 bucks to cover my gas and the postage?

Job well done if I may say so.
FIXIT

 

[Desert Rat]

This is a sweet setup.. I like how it doesn’t torque or twist the arms like the OP setup with the standoffs.. this way provides a straight pill on both arms.

That thought crossed my mind as well, but then in researching this I saw a picture of the Vans RV7 that Mike Seager does transition training in and the rudder horn is set up this same way I did mine. Basically I just copied it with the eye bolts. I figured we'll likely never see an RV that takes more abuse than that one and it seems to be holding up fine.

I also find it a bit ironic that at least in that case, Vans has gone off plan with their own airplane without cluing the rest of us in

 

[Desert Rat]

+1 on the cables. (I made mine a bit too long )
I don't understand why people still use those draggy boat mooring springs.
View attachment 61015

That super cool. I just used the janky springs because they came in the kit, but I'm certainly not married to them. Yours look much better. What are they if you don't mid my asking?

 

[RotaVR]

I was rigging my tailwheel steering yesterday and had the same issues that others have reported; chains hitting the lower rudder fairing at full travel, impossible to get the spring clips sprung enough to install and then collapsed back so they don't fall off without adding a big wad of safety wire, etc.etc.etc.

I had decided to go the same route that so many other folks have and use the AN42B eye bolts and a simple add-a-link chain link back there. Imagine my surprise when I discovered Spruce isn't the least bit ashamed to charge $12 each for those things. With shipping and tax, that's gotta run close to $60!

So this morning I took my cheap self down to the Yard Store here in Wichita and lo and behold, they had some 2" long AN42B in their surplus hardware building. For the whopping price of $12 a POUND. I walked out with a handful of those as well as a bunch of other random stuff.

I took them home and spend about a hour cutting threads the rest of the way down the shank with the el cheapo harbor freight tap and die I happened to have at the house. Yeah it would have been easier to cut them off first so I didn't have to cut som many threads, but the reason I was at the house is because thats where my bench vise is, and it turns out my dremmel and evidently every hack saw I own was at the hangar.

Anyway, when I got to the hangar this afternoon I cut them down to an appropriate length, which turned out be around 5/8".

I have to say, I'm pretty happy with how this turned out and the best part was, Including the two stainless add-a-link couplers it was only about $9 bucks.

If anybody is going this route, has a tap and die set, and doesn't want to pay $12 bucks a pop for these at spruce, let me know and I'll go back down there, grab another handful and mail you a ship set (4) for what, like maybe $5 bucks to cover my gas and the postage?

I used drilled eyebolts with a castellated nut to allow swiveling on my -4.

I was rigging my tailwheel steering yesterday and had the same issues that others have reported; chains hitting the lower rudder fairing at full travel, impossible to get the spring clips sprung enough to install and then collapsed back so they don't fall off without adding a big wad of safety wire, etc.etc.etc.

I had decided to go the same route that so many other folks have and use the AN42B eye bolts and a simple add-a-link chain link back there. Imagine my surprise when I discovered Spruce isn't the least bit ashamed to charge $12 each for those things. With shipping and tax, that's gotta run close to $60!

So this morning I took my cheap self down to the Yard Store here in Wichita and lo and behold, they had some 2" long AN42B in their surplus hardware building. For the whopping price of $12 a POUND. I walked out with a handful of those as well as a bunch of other random stuff.

I took them home and spend about a hour cutting threads the rest of the way down the shank with the el cheapo harbor freight tap and die I happened to have at the house. Yeah it would have been easier to cut them off first so I didn't have to cut som many threads, but the reason I was at the house is because thats where my bench vise is, and it turns out my dremmel and evidently every hack saw I own was at the hangar.

Anyway, when I got to the hangar this afternoon I cut them down to an appropriate length, which turned out be around 5/8".

I have to say, I'm pretty happy with how this turned out and the best part was, Including the two stainless add-a-link couplers it was only about $9 bucks.

If anybody is going this route, has a tap and die set, and doesn't want to pay $12 bucks a pop for these at spruce, let me know and I'll go back down there, grab another handful and mail you a ship set (4) for what, like maybe $5 bucks to cover my gas and the postage?

You might consider drilling your eyebolts and using a castellated nut. The eyebolts are subject to turning forces.

 

[71459]

I replaced the chains at 300 hours.

1400 hours and 23 years later, still using the original chains. They work fine - no need to mess with them.

 

[RV7 To Go]

1400 hours and 23 years later, still using the original chains. They work fine - no need to mess with them.

Same here. 450 hrs over 4 years on a 4 and 750 hrs over 7 years on my 7 both with no issues. I did modify the 7 using the eyebolts to give better clearance to the lower rudder fairing and eliminate any wear on the rudder horn. Will do the same on the 8 I am building. Cables or rods may be a more elegant method but the stock hardware works just fine.

 

[RV6_flyer]

1400 hours and 23 years later, still using the original chains. They work fine - no need to mess with them.

Same here. 450 hrs over 4 years on a 4 and 750 hrs over 7 years on my 7 both with no issues. I did modify the 7 using the eyebolts to give better clearance to the lower rudder fairing and eliminate any wear on the rudder horn. Will do the same on the 8 I am building. Cables or rods may be a more elegant method but the stock hardware works just fine.

They must have switched to better chain that what they shipped me 30-years ago. It stretched and had too much slop after 300-hours. Removing a link made it too tight so it had to be replaced.

 

[azrv6]

1400 hours and 23 years later, still using the original chains. They work fine - no need to mess with them.

1200 hours and 28 years on my original chains, working just fine. No wear on rudder horn.

 

[RV8JD]

Webb-

Thats a great suggestion, but as of now, I have exactly zero RV tailwheel time. I'm unsure how tight or loose I want the steering back there. I figure with the chains it's easier for me to dial that in. Once I get comfortable with the plane and figure out how I want it set up I may switch to cables.

As you may be aware the plans call for about 1/2" of slack in the chains. Set it up this way and then fine tune to where you like them.

 

[PaulvS]

I noticed an RV-4 (didn't think to take a picture) that was set up with the AN42B eye bolts as the connector for the RUDDER cable. The eye bolts were installed with a short 1" length of thin wall aluminum tube between the shoulder on the eye bolt and the rudder horn. The nut on the end of the eye bolt was a castle nut with a split cotter pin. The eye bolt was free to rotate.

This installation for the rudder cable is not per the plans but I think it was done to re-position the rudder cable to prevent if from rubbing on the control stops. Did TLAR? I didn't think so because the rudder cable is putting a side load on the bolt about an inch up from the pivot point and this is also applying a twisting load to the aluminum rudder horn.

What say you, TLAR, or not? My preference would be to re-position the rudder stops to be clear of the rudder cable and then attach the rudder cable clevis fork directly to the rudder horn, per the plans.

 

[Toobuilder]

I noticed an RV-4 (didn't think to take a picture) that was set up with the AN42B eye bolts as the connector for the RUDDER cable. The eye bolts were installed with a short 1" length of thin wall aluminum tube between the shoulder on the eye bolt and the rudder horn. The nut on the end of the eye bolt was a castle nut with a split cotter pin. The eye bolt was free to rotate.

That sounds scary on several points. We can get away with some sketchy geometry on tailwheel steering without much danger, but rudder cables are PRIMARY FLIGHT CONTROLS. Best to stay close to plans on those.

 

[Desert Rat]

I wouldn't deviate from engineering on a primary flight control without a lot of engineering muscle to back it up. As you point out, tailwheel steering isn't flight critical, which is likely why Vans designed it with literal hardware store parts in the first place.