Which Autopilot ?

[tonyjohnson]

Imagine a panel with the following:
Garmin Aera 660 VFR GPS
Garmin G5 as HSI
Uavionix AV30E as AI
Old King Nav Radio
GTR 200B comm radio

What autopilot would you install? One that fits a round hole would be nice.

I believe that the aera 660 will provide guidance to the auto pilot and interface to the G5 so that the heading bug on the G5 can direct the AP to a particular course. How would altitude inputs be made? It seems that using a garmin auto pilot I would need the control panel. Would the G5 need an external magnetometer?

I am struggling to get my head around this rubics cube.


Thanks in advance for your input.

 

[Dugaru]

It seems that using a garmin auto pilot I would need the control panel. Would the G5 need an external magnetometer?

You will need the control panel. It will work fine without an external magnetometer (I don’t have one for mine) although of course in heading mode you’ll only be able to direct it to follow a GPS ground track. This has posed no problem for me in practice.

 

[Longez]

Here is an example of the components needed to implement a G5 based autopilot with navigation guidance provided by an Aera 660. You do not need a magnetometer.

You can couple the flight plan (or Direct To) in the Aera 660 to the autopilot (so it holds the plane over the course line) or push the TRK button on the GMC 507 and use the TRK knob to steer the plane around manually. Great system.

 

[blaplante]

Garmin solution looks to be about $3200, plus any mounting kits, wiring, harnesses, installation labor.
If that is OK, then since you have some Garmin already, staying Garmin would probably be best.

Otherwise... used TruTrak?

 

[rolivi]

I was thinking TruTrak as well.

My quandry was whether to go Garmin or Dynon because I didn't want to replace the servos twice. Are you adding function incrementally and desire to move more in the same ecosystem, or is this addition the cherry on top?

 

[tonyjohnson]

I was thinking TruTrak as well.

My quandry was whether to go Garmin or Dynon because I didn't want to replace the servos twice. Are you adding function incrementally and desire to move more in the same ecosystem, or is this addition the cherry on top?

Rob, The autopilot is the last item on my list. I can do it now or later. I am working with the panel now so I will probably will do it now if the plan comes together. The most important thing is to identify all the pieces of the system now so I don't paint myself into an avionics corner or limit my options later. The auto pilot could be non garmin as long as it will accept guidance from my other panel items. A round hole installation would actually work better for me, maybe truetrak or trio?

 

[Mike S]

First off, define your mission.

If you eventually want to fly IFR approaches, the Garmin setup is pretty high up on the list. This assumes you are going to go full Garmin suite.

If you are just a day VFR type, the TruTrak has a lot going for it.

TruTrack is a stand alone unit that can keep altitude and heading, or will accept nav input from a number of sources.

Dynon and Advanced Flight are also good units------

 

[BobTurner]

Rob, The autopilot is the last item on my list. I can do it now or later. I am working with the panel now so I will probably will do it now if the plan comes together. The most important thing is to identify all the pieces of the system now so I don't paint myself into an avionics corner or limit my options later. The auto pilot could be non garmin as long as it will accept guidance from my other panel items. A round hole installation would actually work better for me, maybe truetrak or trio?

Since this is ‘the last item’ it seems a safe bet that you are not interested in ifr. Both TruTrak and Trio are available in round hole mounts. TruTrac 2 1/4”, Trio 3 1/8”. The larger Trio takes up more room, but, IMHO, that gives it more space for knobs/buttons making it slightly easier to use. TruTrac uses a stepper motor and a shear pin, while Trio uses a dc motor and clutch, which I personally prefer. TruTrac was sold to Bendix a while ago, I haven’t kept abreast of any price changes. TruTrac and Trio used to be very competitive, around $3K. My guess is that for vfr use you’ll end up using ‘control wheel steering’ and/or gps tracking most of the time, which both do well.
Disclosure: I use a Trio Pro in my -10, usually controlled by the GRT Hx EFIS, so it can do ILS/VOR/GPS approaches. I also instruct in the local club’s 182 with a Garmin 500 series controller. Both are excellent autopilots, but with slightly different nuiances in how they operate. Both fly the plane far better than I can hand-fly (I know, a low standard ).

 

[jakej]

An update for you Bob - the newer Trios are ~ 5” long + connector
FWIW - I prefer an autopilot that is ’standalone’ not integrated which is one of the reasons I choose TRIO .

 

[tonyjohnson]

Thanks to all of you for your input. Here is a bit more info.

My mission is day/night VFR. I do have an older Nav radio that allows me to do old school VOR and ILS if I needed to. My DME is inop however which might make an ILS or localizer approach sketchy from a legal standpoint. The Garmin solution will cost around $3200 which is probably close to th TruTrac or Trio options. I would like to keep open the option to replace my vfr GPS with an IFR navigator if I later decide to upgrade to the IFR option. I am pretty confident that the Garmin solution will do that. I don't know much about the TruTrack or Trio options but I am open to them.

 

[BobTurner]

An update for you Bob - the newer Trios are ~ 5” long + connector
FWIW - I prefer an autopilot that is ’standalone’ not integrated which is one of the reasons I choose TRIO .

I don't think that's anything new. Trio Pro's are about 5" deep (plus connectors), and either 3 1/8" in diameter (hole mount) or 6 1/4" wide and (I forget how high) for the rack mount.

 

[blaplante]

To have an autopilot track an IFR approach from a Garmin navigator box, you need to be sure it has ARINC as an available input.
Without ARINC (i.e. using RS232 serial like your portable supplies) will not do turn anticipation, and won't do vertical guidance.
With ARINC, vertical guidance *is possible* and then it is up to the autopilot head as to whether it actually support that or not.

 

[BobTurner]

Thanks to all of you for your input. Here is a bit more info.

My mission is day/night VFR. I do have an older Nav radio that allows me to do old school VOR and ILS if I needed to. My DME is inop however which might make an ILS or localizer approach sketchy from a legal standpoint. The Garmin solution will cost around $3200 which is probably close to th TruTrac or Trio options. I would like to keep open the option to replace my vfr GPS with an IFR navigator if I later decide to upgrade to the IFR option. I am pretty confident that the Garmin solution will do that. I don't know much about the TruTrack or Trio options but I am open to them.

I use the Garmin 420W, and certainly the Trio can 'read' the output. I'm pretty sure both TT and Trio can use the data from any TSO'd ("IFR") GPS navigator.
As to an ILS or VOR approach: You could certainly do a VOR approach, you just have to find one that's close to your destination - not always easy, these days. As to the ILS, yes, with MB and compass locators going the way of the dodo, you may not be equipped to do all ILS approaches. But check around. Sometimes ATC will call DME fixes for you. Some ILS approaches use a VOR cross fix to determine the FAF.
But, in general, you're looking at a big dollar investment to upgrade to IFR capability.

 

[Tim 8-A]

If lead time is an issue you might want to check on TT or now Bendix, I was qiuoted at least 120 days on the x cruise.

 

[blaplante]

I don't know if I'd recommend new for TT, now Bendix. Price, lead time, etc.
But quite a few used units out there from folks doing panel upgrades to 100% Garmin.
Just beware the 'cracked web' issue seen on a few TT pitch servos.

I've used the Dynon mount kits to install used TT servos... pretty much a bolt up.

 

[tonyjohnson]

Thanks again for all the responses to my questions. They have been very helpful. After considering all the options, I am 90% convinced that the Garmin GMC 507 is the best path for me, connecting it to the Aera 660 and G5. Now, my issue becomes installation. I wonder if I need a CAN bus to connect those components and how I make one if it is needed.

 

[Longez]

Thanks again for all the responses to my questions. They have been very helpful. After considering all the options, I am 90% convinced that the Garmin GMC 507 is the best path for me, connecting it to the Aera 660 and G5. Now, my issue becomes installation. I wonder if I need a CAN bus to connect those components and how I make one if it is needed.

Tony,

The G5 installation manual provides wiring information showing how to connect the GMC, G5, and servos with a simple 2 wire CAN bus.

You will be very pleased with your decision to install the Garmin autopilot with the G5 and GMC 507. In my opinion, this is the best autopilot with the best features and user interface for experimental aircraft by a very wide margin.

Something you may not know is that the VNAV button on the GMC 507 allows you to arm the autopilot for coupled enroute VNAV descent for VNAV guidance provided by the Aera 660/760. For example, if you are cruising cross country at 9500 ft and want to land at an airport with a 1800 ft traffic pattern altitude and be at 1800 ft 3 miles prior to the airport, you just set that VNAV profile up in your Aera 660 and the autopilot will automatically capture the VNAV profile putting you at pattern altitude at the selected distance from the destination airport. No other autopilot will integrate with your Aera 660 and provide this feature.

In case you want to expand your system in the future for additional available features like magnetometer (heading), outside air temperature (which enables a true airspeed display), and something like a GNX 375 GPS IFR navigator/transponder that also provides ADS-B In/Out and traffic/weather, here is an example of that system.

Steve

 

[jakej]

I don't think that's anything new. Trio Pro's are about 5" deep (plus connectors), and either 3 1/8" in diameter (hole mount) or 6 1/4" wide and (I forget how high) for the rack mount.

Hi Bob, I think you'll find the older Trio Pro Pilots are longer, maybe you were thinking of the EZ units ?

 

[TigerMan92]

I have an unused brand new GAD29 with install kit for your Garmin A/P. It came with my duel G5 purchase and I'm not going to use it.

PM me if you are interested.