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Seeking wise counsel on building an RV-10

E

Elliot

I'm New Here
Good Afternoon, All,

New to VAF and EAB aircraft in general but very inspired by what all of you in RV world are doing after stumbling onto the site when seeking PPL training. Have not started flight training, but am looking for someone building a -10 or has one flying that I could bring my spouse to see so we can learn more first-hand about the adventure. She is somewhat tentative but very supportive of the idea and would definitely participate when we build (keeping the "if" out of it).

We live in upstate SC but will happily drive to see a -10 underway (rivet trainable or whatever else if you need help with that day), or come to your FBO to see a finished/flying -10. Should your travels bring you through the area and need a fuel stop, we live near KLUX (Laurens County,SC) and easy drive to Greenville (KGMU) - which I understand has a great restaurant.

Thanks,
Elliot
 
If you need a little vacation to FL, we have 4 in our shop now and at least 2 will be there for a while.
 
There are some non-pilots who love building airplanes.
There are some pilots who dis-like building.
And some pilots who like building.

To see where you are, I'd suggest taking 3 - 5 hours of flight training to see if you like it.
Consider purchasing a tail kit, to see if you like building.

Consider the cost of these as a good investment; if you don't like either, better to find out before the expenses really pile up.

Also, keep in mind that virtually no one builds a -10 for the prices quoted on Vans' web site. His prices are for a used engine (hard to find), almost no instruments (very unusual), do it yourself paint and interior (more common).

Note added: if you do go ahead, plan to get your license and fly rentals well before finishing the -10. At this time (this changes all the time) it is very expensive to get insurance if you have less than 200 hours of flight experience. Obviously this doesn't matter if your finances allow you to fly uninsured.
 
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Welcome to VAF!

Elliot said:
Good Afternoon, All,-----------------New to VAF and EAB aircraft in general --------

Thanks,
Elliot
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Elliot, welcome aboard the good ship VAF:D


As to the wise counsel you requested, see below.

Elliot said:
I could bring my spouse to see so we can learn more first-hand about the adventure. She is somewhat tentative but very supportive of the idea and would definitely participate when we build (keeping the "if" out of it).
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Cherish and nurture this..............you have no idea how lucky your are.
 
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You don't want to miss the Triple Tree Fly-In in September then. We camped the last two years. You might even get a flight in off of their 7000' grass.
 
I'm in Lawrenceville GA

Looks to only be a 38 min flight to KLUX. I will be glad to come up and give you a ride and a talk sometime. Right now I am 39.1 hrs into my 40 hr test phase. Will finish it tomorrow and then be able to fly places. I will be out of town the next 3 weekends (2 of them using the RV-10 to go to south FL), but would be glad to come up and talk to you the end of may or early June.

Mail me at [email protected] and we can coordinate a date in a few weeks.

Bill.
 
Like Bob mentioned, insurance sticker shock may be a concern. As a fellow RV-10 builder/flyer, I never want to discourage somebody building a RV-10. But I highly recommend calling an insurance agent familiar with RVs ( like Jenny @ Nationair). You should understand the insurance costs beforehand to understand the impact before you make any decisions.

Worse case, you'll understand how many flight hours you'll need to get while building.

Bob
 
Hi

Welcome to VAF, Elliot. I'm a little over 100 miles south of you at 2J3, Louisville, Ga. I'll also be in Beaufort, S.C. later this afternoon, through Monday evening.

Triple tree is just north of you and a must see.

Best,
 
Thanks and another question

Thanks, everyone, for your insights and to those of you with offers to let us see your RV-10's I realize I am older than the typical first time builder who already has their PPL with several hundred hours flying time so I will definitely check out the insurance issue as suggested.

When I discovered VAF and visited several -10 builders websites, I wondered if my age (second half of 50's) would be a deterrent to even earning a PPL let alone spending 3-5 years on a build - but I figure will be 3-5 years older anyway so there is no time like the present, right? Or am I being too naive about what it takes?

Elliot
 
I wouldn't worry about age for a second. You are probably the median age of an RV builder. One thing that hasn't been mentioned here though is..... Do you really need four seats? The RV-14 is a two seat ten, only a more advanced, easier to build kit. And the -12 is a fantastic airplane too. In my mind, you only build a -10 if you plan to routinely fill all four seats. Otherwise, choose the -14, and you are flying 1-2 years sooner and for several tens of thousands less money.
 
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aturner said:
The RV-14 is a two seat ten, only a more advanced, easier to build kit.
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I have to beg to differ on this. The -14 is far from a 2-seat -10 IMHO. The -14 is a big -7, just much more expensive. If you're a big guy, the -14 is better than the -7. Otherwise it's just more expensive.
 
2 seats will do

I am just a few years older than you, have been flying for over 30 years, over 1,300 hours. Other than commercial flights, it is fairly rare for the average guy to fill up a 4 seat airplane.

If you envision taking your family of 4 places, or you and your wife with another couple, of 3 buddies along on a trip, yeah....that can be a lot of fun, but the reality of it is that only happens occasionally at best.
In either event, look at the usefull load with full fuel, and you will find with 4 good size people on board, the weight of the fuel, passengers, and cargo just isn't going to work out.

It can be just as much fun or more, one on one in a 2 place. The insurance is appreciably more for a 4 place than a 2 place. The 14 looks like it's going to be one heck of a plane, and a lot easier to build.

Definately get your license! Airplane build or not. You will have accomplished something special!
 
Elliot said:
Thanks, everyone, for your insights and to those of you with offers to let us see your RV-10's I realize I am older than the typical first time builder who already has their PPL with several hundred hours flying time so I will definitely check out the insurance issue as suggested.

When I discovered VAF and visited several -10 builders websites, I wondered if my age (second half of 50's) would be a deterrent to even earning a PPL let alone spending 3-5 years on a build - but I figure will be 3-5 years older anyway so there is no time like the present, right? Or am I being too naive about what it takes?

Elliot
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From where I sit your age does seem a little too young.....I can't even remember when I was fifty-ish and I'm still flying and building. Go for it!
 
Elliot, I live in Charlotte and finishing up the tail cone with wings waiting in the shop. Feel free to contact me if you'd like to come up and check out a build.
 
With respect to age, the longer you think about it rather than doing it, the older you will be. Jump in with both feet, and if circumstances change, ensure you've made wise build decisions which will minimize your financial exposure if you have to bail out.

As for 4 seats - all the comments above are true. I have a 2-seater that flies most of the time with one empty seat. I'm building an airplane that can be a 4-seater but I'm only putting in 2 seats. If I ever need 4 seats I'll consider renting.
 
The 2 vs 4 debate is one of those things that's tough to decide for you, being inexperienced in general aviation. Many pilots are saddened to learn that their significant other doesn't share their enthusiasm for flight. But I happen to be on the 4 seat side. Remember, you want 4 if 2 isn't enough! At the time of my start (at age 59, BTW) there was no -14, and my wife and myself (FAA average 340 lbs total), plus camping gear, plus our 70 lb dog, just wouldn't fit in a -7!
I happen to be blessed with a spouse who like to fly with me, loves to go places. But she likes to take luggage, ice chest for snacks. And the dog sometimes, too. Also, I am frankly amazed at how many friends want to go places with us. During the build I thought about no liability insurance on passengers, thinking we wouldn't have any. Yet in practice we frequently go places with others.
For reference, our -10 can hold 736 lbs in passengers and luggage, with full fuel on board. You can weigh yourself and your spouse, see what's left for others. Two football linemen? No. But a normal sized couple, yes.

Also, I'm a CFI, and have instructed several pilots your age. Yes, it's certainly possible. I find older students generally take just a little bit longer to train; but I never have any qualms about safety with them, they exhibit good judgement to make up for any lack of 18 year old-like reflexes.
 
Tom,

I live in Clinton - upstate SC near I-26 and I-385 - I travel around the SE for my work so will give you a heads up if in Beaufort area.

Elliot
 
Many great comments about choices between 4 place and 2 place aircraft. We have both the RV-6 and the RV-10. My wife has traveled with me on excursions in the RV-6 to Okracoke on the east coast and Bermuda Dunes in southern California, as well as many other destinations in between. I admit that for fun, I use the '6, but for cross country travel the '10 is far superior. Operating costs are significantly higher for the '10, and insurance costs are more than double, but my wife much prefers riding in the '10.

As to age, consider yourself as one of the younger people, as the younger of two builder/test pilots was 72 for the first flight, and the senior partner was 73.

If aerobatics are your thing, then definitely go for the 2 place. If you're looking for comfort and great performance, the 10 is the answer.

Carl
 
Data points; I started building at 52 and finished 5 years later (I had something else to fly). A good workspace is key to enjoying the build... in SC that means AC. Now coming up on 3 years flying and 500 hours. I carry liability insurance only.

Building and flying the '10 has been one of the most satisfying things in my life. The plane itself is much better than I could have imagined.

Build versus Flying: As stated, individuals fall all over the map on this issue. I'm a traveling flier that really enjoyed the build. I'll probably not build another plane but I miss the work. Hopefully you can figure out where on the scale you fit so you don't end up spending energies and resources on something you just don't enjoy. Be honest with yourself. If you want the full Monty, jump in with both feet. If you just want to build, dive in. If you just want to fly, jump off. As suggested, a tail kit and some flight time is a good way to find out.

4 vs 2: I fly 90%+ with my wife next to me and with the baggage compartment filled. A 4 seater is required. When we got our first plane, I was thinking 2 place and she asked, "where does the luggage go?". She TOLD me to get a 4-place and we've never looked back. I just finished 5 legs alone in the plane - the '10 is overkill for that but that mission is the exception for me. We have filled all 4 seats with serious luggage aboard more than a few times. This is a serious 4 place aircraft! I'm glad the '14 wasn't around when I decided.

If you want to build (or buy Exp), you are looking at the right line of planes, that's for sure.
 
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