RV vs Glastar Sportsman 2+2 Insurance (revisited)

[Ed_Wischmeyer]

As previously mentioned, I've been looking at the Glastar Sportsman 2+2 as a replacement for the RV-9A (heresy, yes, I know) and have been flummoxed by insurance rates. I've just upped the hull coverage on the -9A to $190K, mostly because of the avionics and how hard it would be to find one comparably equipped, and that's my basis for comparison with the Sportsman. Liability insurance is about the same for both planes, but for nearly identical hull insurance (one quote for $200K, one at $220K), the hull insurance quotes were TEN and FOURTEEN TIMES more than the RV. Granted, I've got 1,000+ RV hours, but the 2+2 is an easy bird to fly with docile handling. The biggest difference is that it lands like a heavier plane, nothing that a five or ten hour checkout wouldn't cover in spades.

In other news, I bought a $10 folding step stool, and that is so cool for boarding! Thanks to several for the recommendation. My passengers will enjoy that immensely, as will I after knee replacement surgery. Getting out will still be a challenge, though.

Flying home to Savannah, approach asked for maximum forward speed till five miles, so I sped up to indicate 155 knots. And, of course, as soon as I switched to tower, they told me to slow down! I was going to, anyway...

 

[Canadian_JOY]

Given the ability to swap landing gear configurations, make sure your Sportsman rate quotes are for trike configuration in order to get closer to apples-to-apples comparison. There is a significant cost difference between trike and taildragger configurations for the Sportsman.

The other thing to consider is the Sportsman may be rated by the insurer as a 4-seat aircraft - this again adds cost.

Lastly, really, really check around the market. Scott "Sky" Smith has a decent reputation as a broker who is able to find insurance for the Sportsman.

From conversations with two RV9A owners, and once hull values were normalized, I'm paying less than twice what they're paying for hull insurance. My hull carries considerably higher value thus my total cost is higher, but when looking at hull insurance as a percentage of hull value, the Sportsman certainly isn't 10-14 times more expensive to insure. It's time to hunt for better insurance!

 

[BobTurner]

Given the ability to swap landing gear configurations, make sure your Sportsman rate quotes are for trike configuration in order to get closer to apples-to-apples comparison. There is a significant cost difference between trike and taildragger configurations for the Sportsman.

The other thing to consider is the Sportsman may be rated by the insurer as a 4-seat aircraft - this again adds cost.

Lastly, really, really check around the market. Scott "Sky" Smith has a decent reputation as a broker who is able to find insurance for the Sportsman.

From conversations with two RV9A owners, and once hull values were normalized, I'm paying less than twice what they're paying for hull insurance. My hull carries considerably higher value thus my total cost is higher, but when looking at hull insurance as a percentage of hull value, the Sportsman certainly isn't 10-14 times more expensive to insure. It's time to hunt for better insurance!

4 vs 2 seats should show up in the liability quote, not the hull. I can only guess possible reasons: the market recently has been very unkind to owners with low time in type. Historically that might be 2 or 3X, not 10X! It also may be that many Sportsman owners use the plane for its intended (advertised) purpose: to fly into remote, unimproved strips. Any incident in such a place becomes expensive, from flying in mechanics and parts to chartering a helicopter to bring the plane out. These are just guesses, of course. Your broker should be able to offer some explanation.

 

[Ed_Wischmeyer]

As previously mentioned, I've been looking at the Glastar Sportsman 2+2 as a replacement for the RV-9A (heresy, yes, I know) and have been flummoxed by insurance rates. I've just upped the hull coverage on the -9A to $190K, mostly because of the avionics and how hard it would be to find one comparably equipped, and that's my basis for comparison with the Sportsman. Liability insurance is about the same for both planes, but for nearly identical hull insurance (one quote for $200K, one at $220K), the hull insurance quotes were TEN and FOURTEEN TIMES more than the RV. Granted, I've got 1,000+ RV hours, but the 2+2 is an easy bird to fly with docile handling. The biggest difference is that it lands like a heavier plane, nothing that a five or ten hour checkout wouldn't cover in spades.

In other news, I bought a $10 folding step stool, and that is so cool for boarding! Thanks to several for the recommendation. My passengers will enjoy that immensely, as will I after knee replacement surgery. Getting out will still be a challenge, though.

Flying home to Savannah, approach asked for maximum forward speed till five miles, so I sped up to indicate 155 knots. And, of course, as soon as I switched to tower, they told me to slow down! I was going to, anyway...

Just to clarify -- the liability insurance was about the same, but it was the portion of the insurance for the hull that was 10 or 14 times as much. Overall, the insurance was 3 1/2 or 5 times as much.

 

[Canadian_JOY]

Just to clarify -- the liability insurance was about the same, but it was the portion of the insurance for the hull that was 10 or 14 times as much. Overall, the insurance was 3 1/2 or 5 times as much.

You definitely need to be using a different insurance broker to shop different markets for you - this kind of pricing is not at all what we're seeing in the Sportsman community.

Now if you were talking about being on floats, or, even worse, amphibs, then the price goes up. To give you an idea of how much... Our Sportsman on trike gear with $250K hull, $2M smooth liability is about $4500/year (the liability portion of this is about $500). Putting it on floats bumps it up to just over $20,000/year. Amphibs bump it up to about $27,000/year. Changing from trike to taildragger moves it from $4500/year to about $7000/year. Keep in mind this is in Canada and Canadian dollars.

Hull loss rates on the Sportsman are relatively low thus their rating for hull insurance is typically not bad. I think you've found quotes which are more outliers. I'll attach here a photo of a Sportsman quote received by an owner in the USA in January through Global - this reflects reality.

 

[Canadian_JOY]

I forgot to mention... if you're looking at owning a Sportsman, you need to become a member of the type club, the Glasair Aircraft Owner's Association. This is a web-based type club (NOT Facebook - the Facebook presence is only a "hook" to let people know the web-based club exists). Membership is $40/year and it represents huge value in terms of the depth and breadth of aircraft-specific information available to builders and owners.

Glasair Aircraft Owners Association

Online Community for owners, builders and pilots of Glasair, GlaStar, Sportsman, Merlin, and OMF Symphony airplanes. Kit building, owning, flying, for sale.

glasair-owners.com

 

[edhunter]

Ed I was considering the same thing, and possibly the same airplane! My -9A costs around $1500/year with Gallagher. I got a quote of $12,800/yr for the tailwheel sportsman, $12,900 as a trike, also from Gallagher. Seller of airplane recommended I try BWI so I did. $17,000 per year! Crazy.

 

[Ironflight]

There are numerous reasons the quotes for hill coverage can be so high - once that hasn;t really been mentioned is that thre is great uncertainty over teh availability of parts to repair a Sportsman now that Glassair has sort of gone to sleep. We had the same problem with our Tundra - the company is effectively out of business, so if you have damage in a mishap that requires new parts, the company may well have to total it instead of fixing - and that’s a total payout on their part. So….high premiums.

 

[BobTurner]

$2M smooth liability is about……..(the liability portion of this is about $500).

Am I reading this correctly? $2 M liability with no sublimits for about $500? No one can come close to that premium in the States. Is this just the lack of contingency fees in Canada? Or are Canadian lawyers just nice people?

 

[868RM]

Our 8A. $1600 per year. Our Sportsman 2+2 tail dragger is $3200 per year and I’m 73 years old.Also a little higher hull value on Sportsman

 

[jeffhickman]

When I purchased my sportsman there was a wide range in pricing for insurance. For a tailwheel sportsman insured for $200,000 I spend $3200 a year for full coverage. This is similar to what I expect the RV 10 to cost when finished.