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RV-3: The Cockpit Matures

Lars said:
Yet another random panel question...

You have probably answered this already and maybe I even saw it and forgot, but what materials did you use to label switches and breakers? I've been contemplating having engraved placards made that would be retained by the nuts on the switches, but they are bulkier and I'm starting to think they'll make my panel look (gasp!) cluttered.
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Brother label-maker, black-on-clear tape. Very easy to change if you change your mind on switch functions, and easy to fix if you make a mistake. I have yet to build a panel where something didn't change (for the better) during assembly, so while I like the silk-screened or engraved look, it takes away my ability to fine-tune in the end.

Paul
 
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Ironflight said:
Brother label-maker, black-on-clear tape. Very easy to change if you change your mind on switch functions, and easy to fix if you make a mistake. I have yet to build a panel where something didn't change (for the better) during assembly, so while I like the silk-screened or engraved look, it takes away my ability to fine-tune in the end.

Paul
Click to expand...

Ask, and you shall find. I mentioned labeling my panel to my office mate. His reply was in essence, "why don't you just use the Brother label maker we have here?". Just need to order some tapes and practice a bit.
 
What's the secret?

What's the secret to getting them on straight? I always get one or two off kilter.
 
Here is how I did it.

PCHunt said:
What's the secret to getting them on straight? I always get one or two off kilter.
Click to expand...

I used an X-acto knife to position the label with.

Peel off half of the backing, stick the label to the tip of the knife blade, and position it where you want it.

Now, hold it in position with a finger on the half with the backing paper still in place, and gently rub the sticky part onto the panel.

If it looks good, peel off the other piece of backer, and rub the rest of it down.

Beware----you can change the positioning of the label with rubbing it too aggressively. If you still have half of the backing paper in place, it is easy to remove.
 
Getting them Straight

Like Mike, I use an X-Acto to position them before rubbing them down firmly wish an artist's burnishing tool. To get an entire line straight an level, I put down a strip of back-riveting tape (low-stick scotch tape) to make a reference line. For a panel like the circuit breakers, i did this before installing the breakers - if I change a single label later, it is pretty easy to do, but labeling them all while the panel is still flat makes it easy to line things up.

Paul
 
Aircraft Engravers

Lars said:
Yet another random panel question...

You have probably answered this already and maybe I even saw it and forgot, but what materials did you use to label switches and breakers? I've been contemplating having engraved placards made that would be retained by the nuts on the switches, but they are bulkier and I'm starting to think they'll make my panel look (gasp!) cluttered.
Click to expand...

The Brother label maker works well; I used this to make "temporary" labels for the fuel caps that lasted for several years. Another alternative that I used is these guys:

http://www.engravers.net/

I got my placards made with reverse-engraved Lexan which is 0.020". Very nice looking and will last forever. They will work with you on any custom placard you want and are not terribly expensive. The only down-side is you have to plan a bit more carefully, whereas the label maker approach allows for some trial and error.
 
Ironflight said:
Why not Vertical Power? No slight against Marc?s product ? I simply find that I personally don?t need that level of automation with this type of aircraft. I find a bus/beaker system to be highly reliable and easily controlled ? I can power cycle the EFIS Display Units by pulling and bushing a breaker ? saves a switch, and it is quick to do. There really is nothing very complex about the time-tested wiring harness system ? everything is either at 12 volts or ground, and is as simple as loads and sources. Wiring is simply not a chore. This particular system is very easy to operate, simple to understand, and has good redundancy. Cost really isn?t that much of an issue either way ? whether VP or traditional, it?s a small percentage of what you?re going to spend on the airplane as a whole. The bottom line is that I like the simplicity and control I get from a traditional system. And?it?s a LOT simpler than what I fly on a basis.
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Ironically, the VP-X is more reliable, simpler to wire, less weight, and gives you more control than a traditional electrical system. Plus you have all the circuits displayed right in front of you instead of down by your legs which can be hard to see and find the right breaker. I'll post some G3X screens in a bit and you can see the nice job they did.

Other than the blob of circuit breakers, nice panel! :)
 
MCA said:
Ironically, the VP-X is more reliable, simpler to wire, less weight, and gives you more control than a traditional electrical system. Plus you have all the circuits displayed right in front of you instead of down by your legs which can be hard to see and find the right breaker. I'll post some G3X screens in a bit and you can see the nice job they did.
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Quite frankly Marc, I can instantly look at the "big blob of circuit breakers" down by my leg and see exactly the status of the electrical system - which, 99.9999% of the time will be completely normal. And while a pretty picture of the circuit breakers on the EFIS sounds nice, I would have to give up looking at the PFD or map (with a two screen system) in order to do so. Ease of wiring? I personally can wire a simple, single engine airplane like this in my sleep - it is just really pretty simple - at least on the power side. In's and out's, and circuit protection - pretty basic. And as for reliability, well, I'd have to see the numbers to make a judgment on that. A properly built "old school" electrical system will pretty much stay working for the life of the airplane in my experience. Most electrical failures in the real world turn out to be in the alternator, regulator, or battery parts of the system - and you have those either way.

I know that the VP system is a good solution for many people in many applications, and yes, Garmin (and the other manufacturers) have built nice interfaces for it. It's good that people have the choice, and I always suggest that people look at their own requirements, then look at solutions that satisfy those requirements when building a system. When I evaluate what I need in an electrical system for an airplane like this with my own experience, I come up with the answer I have. It is simple, light enough, and very, very reliable.

Paul
 
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So Paul, when you build a ten, you should put a Vert Power unit in it.........

Looking good on the 3.
 
Hi Paul,
I'm actually a week or 2 away from wiring the power side in my Rocket. Please be advised that I am extremely electrically-challenged.

I believe my mission statement is the same as yours here, and I'm most concerned or focused on the pilot interface (in other words, what do I do as pilot to make it go). So I'm asking for a simple (hopefully) sanity-check here.

Here is what I want:
1) 2 big switches
a. Switch #1: Main battery on
b. Switch #2: Aux. battery (smaller) on
2) These switches can both be on, or either one on alone
3) I can start the engine on either battery or both (two Odyssey batteries; different sizes; both in parallel if there is difficulty starting)
4) So, our panel will have in the upper left corner a cluster of 6 switches:
a. Main Batt On
b. Aux Batt On
c. Mag 1
d. Mag 2
e. Fuel Pump
f. Starter
5) Then in a separate row of switches:
a. Avionics
b. Strobe Lights
c. Running Lights (cockpit instrument lights with this)
d. Avoidance (wig-wag) / Landing Lights (3-position switch; off/wig-wag/landing)
e. Cockpit Map Lights
f. Aux Power (all non-essential stuff goes through here like seat heaters, rear seat cigarette lighter, etc.)
Am I on the right track ???? Can I copy your wiring model and have the pilot interface I outlined??
Thanks a ton,
Larry
 
No replies so far, so I'll ask if anyone has taken this electrical layout to a schematic stage with part numbers etc. ???
 
Larry, our RV-3 works very close to what you have outlined, except that we can't start on the Aux battery - it is just a small avionics battery to keep voltage from sagging to the computers at engine start. I didn't review this whole thread to see if it has our wiring diagram, but our schematic is posted in some thread here. Basically, we have a dual-bus system where everything critical feeds off both busses, and the Ess bus can be powered from the main or Aux. Very reliable, very simple (lots of diodes behind the panel), and gives redundancy in flight with no pilot action.
 
Thanks Paul,
I've read this entire thread a few times and yes, you did post a diagram? but it doesn't contain enough detail for me. Somewhere you also mentioned that the diodes (or some of them) came from Stein; so I'll just go to him and ask for what you got. I'm going to have him do my panel anyway. I'm confident I can find enough expertise locally to help me reduce your diagram to specifics.
One further question on the batteries: if the main (big) battery won't start the engine by itself (cold day or pilot error etc.) can you turn on the aux battery (small) so that it helps (run in parallel with the big battery) ??? I'm planning on a big and small battery too .... and have a big high-compression/performance motor so I may need some extra umph.
 
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