Seems everyone on board survived in good shape.
http://www.denpubs.com/news/2013/feb/22/three-men-uninjured-after-plane-crash-near-lake-pl/
http://www.denpubs.com/news/2013/feb/22/three-men-uninjured-after-plane-crash-near-lake-pl/
Great news on all surviving cold weather and a delayed rescue.
Good work guys.
According to Winchell, the coordinates given by the New Jersey men were in a format not typically used by environmental department search teams.
As a result of this mix up at the 911 centre, I will be talking to the folks at my 911 centre to ensure they have the ability to take GPS coordinates and use them properly.
Glad you and your friends are in great shape Frank!
Cheers,
Don
Glad you walked away and are now safe!
I'll remind folks that replies that are speculative in nature will be removed. When the final NTSB report comes out we'll have an opportunity to learn.
I wonder how closely they can track the ping of a cell phone? They could also use "Find my iPhone" or "find my friends" app to locate an iPhone. 10 hours is a LONG time to be freezing and waiting.
Of course it is also possible that, considering that there were no injuries and the occupants refused any medical treatment, there will be no NTSB report for this accident.
I don't think there has ever been a ban on accident discussion on this forum. There is a ban on speculating about what happened and what should have happened, what the pilot should or shouldn't have done, or what the pilot did or didn't do prior to the official report being released. Anyone who has access to the official report is welcome to post it. You don't have to wait for Doug or a moderator to post it.
Think about how you would feel if you had an accident and forum members speculated about you. Let the FAA and the pilot tell the whole story and then bring up informed ways about what might be done to prevent accidents.
Roberta
I am concerned that for the very limited time I ever fly IFR I will not be able to have the needed proficiency to safely fly the aircraft in true IFR conditions. Practice is the key but how many RV owners actually get under a hood and truly practice the procedures on the new displays that might save their life sometime. I suspect its not many.... When things start going bad sometimes the safest course of action is to start removing automation levels and hand flying the aircraft if needed. Button pushing and programming takes valuable time at critical moments.
Sailv767 has some excellent points. As has been previously discussed, as our aircraft become more and more automated it requires pilots to devote more, not less, time to recurrent training.
..... If people are interested, I'm colocated with the AF survival school and can get a rundown of their suggested personal survival kits which typically contain some of the latest and greatest gadgets as well as old school time tested equipment. .....
Sadly those discussions don't seem to come up often. By the time the NTSB puts out its report the accident is long forgotten. As a example someone I know was involved in a accident in GA early last fall. I do watch the NTSB database to see if their is a update and there has been none. When the results are released I doubt they will get posted or even discussed on here. The accident will be long forgotten. If I am involved in a accident I would hope everyone will look at my actions and try and apply those actions to how they fly to prevent a similar accident from happening. Speculation my be incorrect but there is a tremendous wealth of talent on this forum and that speculation might not be correct for that accident but certainly could prevent another accident. I think we are all big boys here and understand that no one has all the answers and speculation might be wrong.
The NTSB reports themselves are often wrong and if you read them you realize that often they did not even go to the accident site. Their results are based on phone interviews. They are way overworked and understaffed. We need to learn from both the actual mistakes we make and the potential mistakes we might make.
George
One answer to the above post: one of the tools that is almost never used is the contact approach. If an ifr pilot wishes to deviate from the approach procedure and continue on using just visual references he may request a contact approach. The sole advantage is that you are still in the ATC system, and search and rescue will be notified if you fail to arrive and cancel your ifr clearance.
Really have to differentiate IFR and IMC. IMO one should file IFR often to keep current in switchology and with procedures, etc. There are times I have to force myself into this, as I do not want to add the extra .3-.4 to my flight vs. VFR direct. However, the proficiency and confindence this gives me with my systems and 'the system' is priceless when I'm actually IMC. Yes, sometimes I can tell ATC does not relish me asking for the full approach vs. the visual, but I generally do not fly into places busy enough to matter, and the bottom line is it's for ATC to grant or deny in VMC. Once you are comfortable with all the switchology and develop your new scan, do the same with a safety pilot and the foggles - I don't think you'll find it a huge leap.
Excellent second point. Sometimes the AP disconnect is your best friend. If it ever feels like the airplane is beginning to fly you (lost in menus, behind the curve with button pushing) sometimes the best cure is to disconnect and fly the plane.
***CAVEAT*** This is my opinion and assumes you are transitioning to new equipment - NOT brand new to flying in IMC.
While its difficult to always 'dress to egress' when flying over several varying climates, I know most people carry small survival packs and I'm sure there's been a lot of discussion/debate over what to put in them. One thing I carry with me that I remembered from survival school that had the best bang per buck (weight and volume as well) was a poncho and some sterno cans. A can of sterno is a great fire starter but is even better if you place it between your legs when squatting and wearing a poncho. The sterno will burn for 4-6 hrs if I remember correctly and can raise local temps (inside your poncho) by 20 deg or more. I'm fuzzy on the details (times, temps, core body temps etc) but remember very clearly the appreciated effect after being rainsoaked in a frigid washington winter for a few weeks in the woods. Of course a metal match or lighter is required to get it going, but all in all 1 sterno and poncho per person comes out to be less than a pound per person and would all fit in a freezer bag for a 4 place aircraft. I also carry an MRE and 2 bottles of water per person as well as some other items but I'm sure those preferences are documented in other threads. If people are interested, I'm colocated with the AF survival school and can get a rundown of their suggested personal survival kits which typically contain some of the latest and greatest gadgets as well as old school time tested equipment. Glad to hear everyone made it out ok, it sounds truly miraculous.