Van's Air Force
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P mag problem
- Thread starter Mike Ice
- Start date
LifeofReiley
Well Known Member
Mike,
I'll take a copy of the link too please. Heck, my last post got nuked too... is it Monday or what? Oops!
TIA,
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Steve Sampson
Well Known Member
Mike - that was a really interesting article. Thanks!
I cant say I agree with the writer over all, but he does make some interesting points and increased my knowledge which is what its all about.
I am delighted with my P-mags, and if I have a bad experience will have to put it down to the fact that those of us that have chosen to go this route are early adopters. We have the choice after all! I am relying on the fact that it is very unlikely that both will fail catastrophically together in time.
What is really sad is that the forum police see it necessary to remove such an article. I thought you were the 'land of the free' over there! Hey ho! I guess this will get deleted. [ed. Steve, I've been threatened with lawsuits for less radioactive content by companies in the past, so please understand me when I say I take this stuff seriously. I deleted the post in question and will do it again. If you don't agree I'm sorry and respect that, but it's my sandbox and I'm thinking about my family's financial future here. DR]
Thanks again,
I cant say I agree with the writer over all, but he does make some interesting points and increased my knowledge which is what its all about.
I am delighted with my P-mags, and if I have a bad experience will have to put it down to the fact that those of us that have chosen to go this route are early adopters. We have the choice after all! I am relying on the fact that it is very unlikely that both will fail catastrophically together in time.
What is really sad is that the forum police see it necessary to remove such an article. I thought you were the 'land of the free' over there! Hey ho! I guess this will get deleted. [ed. Steve, I've been threatened with lawsuits for less radioactive content by companies in the past, so please understand me when I say I take this stuff seriously. I deleted the post in question and will do it again. If you don't agree I'm sorry and respect that, but it's my sandbox and I'm thinking about my family's financial future here. DR]
Thanks again,
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N941WR
Legacy Member
Could it be the installation?
One thing I have noticed about the E/P-mag issues posted her and elsewhere is that no two installations seem to be the same.
Could it be that the issues people are having with these units are related to their installation?
With traditional mags, the installation is well understood and thus they are more than likely installed per the manual.
With the E/P-mags there is the Emag Air manual and then there is Bob K's Aeroelectric diagrams. Emag Air suggests using 18 AWG wire but Bob's book lists 20 AWG wire. How many people wired these things per Bob's diagrams and then point their fingers at Emag? How about the other wires coming off the E/P-mag, did the people having issues really understand how to wire them and do it correctly, with good connectors?
Also, more than one person has wired them different that either Bob or Emag recommends and have had problems, again, only to point their finger at the product, not the installation.
Ignitions are like fuel systems, if you do something non-standard, you run a risk. Could it be that the fuel line is being blamed, not the installation?
One thing I have noticed about the E/P-mag issues posted her and elsewhere is that no two installations seem to be the same.
Could it be that the issues people are having with these units are related to their installation?
With traditional mags, the installation is well understood and thus they are more than likely installed per the manual.
With the E/P-mags there is the Emag Air manual and then there is Bob K's Aeroelectric diagrams. Emag Air suggests using 18 AWG wire but Bob's book lists 20 AWG wire. How many people wired these things per Bob's diagrams and then point their fingers at Emag? How about the other wires coming off the E/P-mag, did the people having issues really understand how to wire them and do it correctly, with good connectors?
Also, more than one person has wired them different that either Bob or Emag recommends and have had problems, again, only to point their finger at the product, not the installation.
Ignitions are like fuel systems, if you do something non-standard, you run a risk. Could it be that the fuel line is being blamed, not the installation?
G
Geoff
My thoughts exactly
I've often thought the exact same thing. Some installations try to reduce the number of switches, use a standard mag key switch, incorporate a "maintenance" switch somewhere under the hood, use pullable breakers, hard-wire to the battery bus, etc. While any/all of these options may work, my initial thought was that they just complicate the situation.
I have four SPST switches: a power switch for each P-mag, and a spark (commonly referred to as a p-lead) switch for each P-mag. Nothing is combined with anything, and I can manipulate the switches appropriately to do what I need to do. Here are some examples:
Setup mode: Turn on the power switches, leave the spark switches off.
Run mode: Turn on the power switches, turn on the spark switches.
Mag check (dual P-mags): Run the engine up, turn off the power switches. Now both P-mags are running on internal power. Turn off one spark switch, see RPM drop, turn it back on. Do the same for the other spark switch. Then turn back on both power switches and you're done. You just checked the spark generating capability and internal power sources of each P-mag independently. If something doesn't work right in this test, further investigation (proper switch manipulation) will reveal whether the problem is with self-power generation or spark generation.
I have 75 trouble-free hours on my P-mags and really like the product. Their customer service is also very good. However, I do have issues with their record-keeping. For example, they should know (by serial number) exactly which units are affected by the latest SB, but they don't because they didn't keep those records. Having to take the units off the engine to look in a little hole with a flashlight and magnifying glass is a PITA and could have been prevented by better record keeping.
Also, all of their features are not available in all of the units -- even though they may look identical, some units have different circuit boards inside which may or may not support some of the EICAD-related adjustments. The manual doesn't mention this, and you have know way of knowing. I *think* this may be what's preventing them from moving towards firmware updates in the field -- something they really need to do. Some firmware isn't compatible with some of the actual hardware on some versions of their circuit boards. I know this from personal experience.
That said, I like the product and I'd buy it again. It sure is a lot "cleaner" than the other ignition systems from an installation standpoint.
I've often thought the exact same thing. Some installations try to reduce the number of switches, use a standard mag key switch, incorporate a "maintenance" switch somewhere under the hood, use pullable breakers, hard-wire to the battery bus, etc. While any/all of these options may work, my initial thought was that they just complicate the situation.
I have four SPST switches: a power switch for each P-mag, and a spark (commonly referred to as a p-lead) switch for each P-mag. Nothing is combined with anything, and I can manipulate the switches appropriately to do what I need to do. Here are some examples:
Setup mode: Turn on the power switches, leave the spark switches off.
Run mode: Turn on the power switches, turn on the spark switches.
Mag check (dual P-mags): Run the engine up, turn off the power switches. Now both P-mags are running on internal power. Turn off one spark switch, see RPM drop, turn it back on. Do the same for the other spark switch. Then turn back on both power switches and you're done. You just checked the spark generating capability and internal power sources of each P-mag independently. If something doesn't work right in this test, further investigation (proper switch manipulation) will reveal whether the problem is with self-power generation or spark generation.
I have 75 trouble-free hours on my P-mags and really like the product. Their customer service is also very good. However, I do have issues with their record-keeping. For example, they should know (by serial number) exactly which units are affected by the latest SB, but they don't because they didn't keep those records. Having to take the units off the engine to look in a little hole with a flashlight and magnifying glass is a PITA and could have been prevented by better record keeping.
Also, all of their features are not available in all of the units -- even though they may look identical, some units have different circuit boards inside which may or may not support some of the EICAD-related adjustments. The manual doesn't mention this, and you have know way of knowing. I *think* this may be what's preventing them from moving towards firmware updates in the field -- something they really need to do. Some firmware isn't compatible with some of the actual hardware on some versions of their circuit boards. I know this from personal experience.
That said, I like the product and I'd buy it again. It sure is a lot "cleaner" than the other ignition systems from an installation standpoint.
Definitely Early Adopter Syndrome
I have to agree with the early adopter designation. I haven't run my engine yet and this will be the second time that I may have to send these things back for an update. I haven't done the inspection yet. I really question the judgement of these guys adding things that are really unnecessary, like the software timing, I just don't see any problems that it solves and many potential problems that it introduces. It makes me wonder about the wisdom of many other decisions they make that I don't know about. I also agree that the connector is less than stellar.
That said, I haven't given up yet, as I see many potential benefits, but this is strike two for against the P-Mags for me.
Magnetos and Lightpeeds have their issues too.
Hans
Superior IO-360 with Dual P-Mags
RV-6A 99% done!
I have to agree with the early adopter designation. I haven't run my engine yet and this will be the second time that I may have to send these things back for an update. I haven't done the inspection yet. I really question the judgement of these guys adding things that are really unnecessary, like the software timing, I just don't see any problems that it solves and many potential problems that it introduces. It makes me wonder about the wisdom of many other decisions they make that I don't know about. I also agree that the connector is less than stellar.
That said, I haven't given up yet, as I see many potential benefits, but this is strike two for against the P-Mags for me.
Magnetos and Lightpeeds have their issues too.
Hans
Superior IO-360 with Dual P-Mags
RV-6A 99% done!
tommylewis
Well Known Member
Visited factory today
I drove my two PMAGs up to the EMAG factory today for the SB upgrade. Had a good talk with Brad regarding the SB. Saw the design changes, heard about the mechanical design review that has occurred, and am anxious to get mine back so we can make another trip. I also heard the other side of the story regarding Mark's issues. We all know there are two sides to every disagreement. I will continue to use my PMAGs in my RV7a. Looking forward to adding to the 409 hours we have put on our RV7a in the last 18 months.
I drove my two PMAGs up to the EMAG factory today for the SB upgrade. Had a good talk with Brad regarding the SB. Saw the design changes, heard about the mechanical design review that has occurred, and am anxious to get mine back so we can make another trip. I also heard the other side of the story regarding Mark's issues. We all know there are two sides to every disagreement. I will continue to use my PMAGs in my RV7a. Looking forward to adding to the 409 hours we have put on our RV7a in the last 18 months.
Geico266
Well Known Member
Captain Avgas
Well Known Member
Past history has shown a propensity for PMAGs to lose timing for one reason or another. If one PMAG suddenly gives you very advanced timing it could cause the engine to lose power or quit completely....despite the fact that the other PMAG is in perfect condition. A "Mag check" should be a mandatory engine-out protocol in all cases but is often overlooked. That oversight could be fatal with PMAGs.
Steve Sampson
Well Known Member
Bob, I entirely agree with that.
There is an advantage though in that they are normally so smooth any problem even very small, with either would show very clearly. Turning one off then the other would make a very quick and easy diagnosis of which was misbehaving since the engine is normally very smooth running on just one with very little loss of power.
Yes they have had a few teething problems, not many, and I remain delighted.
Steve.
There is an advantage though in that they are normally so smooth any problem even very small, with either would show very clearly. Turning one off then the other would make a very quick and easy diagnosis of which was misbehaving since the engine is normally very smooth running on just one with very little loss of power.
Yes they have had a few teething problems, not many, and I remain delighted.
Steve.
RV7Guy
Well Known Member
Any Mag
Bob,
This statement applies to ALL mag type systems, not just Pmags. You are correct that you should do a mag check in the event of a problem.
The one off field landing that occurred to an RVer happened because he didn't try to isolate the mag and shut the engine down. When I had a similar problem I switched mags and flew on.
It is interesting that some people have lots of problems while others have had none. I also find it interesting that some choose to wire differently than recommended by Emagair and then complain when they have a problem.
We are our own worst enemies sometimes.
Bob,
This statement applies to ALL mag type systems, not just Pmags. You are correct that you should do a mag check in the event of a problem.
The one off field landing that occurred to an RVer happened because he didn't try to isolate the mag and shut the engine down. When I had a similar problem I switched mags and flew on.
It is interesting that some people have lots of problems while others have had none. I also find it interesting that some choose to wire differently than recommended by Emagair and then complain when they have a problem.
We are our own worst enemies sometimes.
Mike S
Senior Curmudgeon
Boy, you said a mouthfull there.
And it applies to way more than just P-mags................
One electrical column writer told people that they should substitute shielded wire for the 1500V 50 ohm transmission line from the unit to the coils on the LSE ignition; he never specified the voltage rating of the wire. The PI and PIII put out over 500V peak. Also, the shielded wire he recommended had over twice the capacitance per foot of the 50 ohm cable. That extra capacitance has the effect of slowing the rate-of-rise of the primary pulse and imposes greater current loading on the output transistors. When advised by LSE to cease and desist, he ignored them. You would all do well to stick to the recommendations of the manufacturer, whether LSE, E-P Mag, or ElectroAir. To do otherwise and follow someone else's suggestions puts you in the position of being your own electrical engineering specialist and voiding your warranty. When these other well-meaning people tell you to trust them and take their advice on the wire types, ask them if they will assume the product warranty if you follow their recommendation!
Discussion
The Multiple failures reported and later removed from this site are being discussed actively and rationally on the canard forums with a lot of good question and answer sessions. Much better than the head in sand approach....
As it turns out the failure rate is much higher than reported, particularly by the planes reporting 20 whole hours of troublefree service!
The Multiple failures reported and later removed from this site are being discussed actively and rationally on the canard forums with a lot of good question and answer sessions. Much better than the head in sand approach....
As it turns out the failure rate is much higher than reported, particularly by the planes reporting 20 whole hours of troublefree service!
lostpilot28
Well Known Member
The Multiple failures reported and later removed from this site are being discussed actively and rationally on the canard forums with a lot of good question and answer sessions. Much better than the head in sand approach....
As it turns out the failure rate is much higher than reported, particularly by the planes reporting 20 whole hours of troublefree service!
Could you provide a Link?
Mike S
Senior Curmudgeon
The Multiple failures reported and later removed from this site are being discussed actively and rationally on the canard forums with a lot of good question and answer sessions. Much better than the head in sand approach....
David, just in case you missed it, take a look at this thread.
The moderation/deletion activities here at VAF are not as you say a "Head in the sand" approach, but are in fact as Doug says in his comment.
It seems you are pretty passionate about this issue, and considering the troubles you have had ( I went back and re-read your comments on Lightspeed) you have good reason to be, which is fine.
But please dont look for non existent bogymen hiding in the shadows.
Live long and prosper.
lostpilot28
Well Known Member
I already read the 3 part post...how about a link to the forums? Thanks.
Head in Sand?
Mike, what I got out of Doug's comment on the moderation was that he had been threatened with a lawsuit for less. He didn't say that was what happened in this instance. I think it was overmoderation to remove that post. What if someone dies because they did not read that post? What about that lawsuit? You could make a credible argument that VAF is THE source for information related to RV aircraft. When that source effectively eliminates what could be life or death information, and then someone dies because they didn't have that information, is that source not liable in some way? I am no lawyer, and I don't play one on TV either.
I thought that post was very informative and passed the "be nice" test. I was disappointed when it disappeared.
Hans
Mike, what I got out of Doug's comment on the moderation was that he had been threatened with a lawsuit for less. He didn't say that was what happened in this instance. I think it was overmoderation to remove that post. What if someone dies because they did not read that post? What about that lawsuit? You could make a credible argument that VAF is THE source for information related to RV aircraft. When that source effectively eliminates what could be life or death information, and then someone dies because they didn't have that information, is that source not liable in some way? I am no lawyer, and I don't play one on TV either
.I thought that post was very informative and passed the "be nice" test. I was disappointed when it disappeared.
Hans
N941WR
Legacy Member
Hans,
I read the post, it is on another RV builder's site, and it sounded like so much spam. I like the line where he asks people to forward his note to everyone he knows and how he got upset when Emagair didn't take his advice.
Well, they must have taken someone's advice because they have a fix, one that has been reviewed by an engineer.
Also, anyone who continues to fly a plane with a known bad mag has questionable decision making skills. I don't care who made the mag. When I read his entire note, the above mentioned decision making skills left me to question everything in his post. For instance, if his engine was vibrating enough to cause the P-mags to come apart when they were firing properly, why in the world was he flying it. That tells me it is time to investigate what is going on with the engine. I also wonder if it vibrated enough to ruin the P-mags, what has it done to the engine mount and other systems.
The entire note struck me as someone who was trying to blame Emagair for his engine problems, when it was his engine that caused the Pmag problem.
Just my $.02 worth.
(Yes, I have two P-mags. Yes, I understand their experimental nature. Yes, I will keep the faith.)
I read the post, it is on another RV builder's site, and it sounded like so much spam. I like the line where he asks people to forward his note to everyone he knows and how he got upset when Emagair didn't take his advice.
Well, they must have taken someone's advice because they have a fix, one that has been reviewed by an engineer.
Also, anyone who continues to fly a plane with a known bad mag has questionable decision making skills. I don't care who made the mag. When I read his entire note, the above mentioned decision making skills left me to question everything in his post. For instance, if his engine was vibrating enough to cause the P-mags to come apart when they were firing properly, why in the world was he flying it. That tells me it is time to investigate what is going on with the engine. I also wonder if it vibrated enough to ruin the P-mags, what has it done to the engine mount and other systems.
The entire note struck me as someone who was trying to blame Emagair for his engine problems, when it was his engine that caused the Pmag problem.
Just my $.02 worth.
(Yes, I have two P-mags. Yes, I understand their experimental nature. Yes, I will keep the faith.)
lostpilot28
Well Known Member
Well said, Bill...I was thinking the same thing. My jaw almost hit the ground when he said he took off again with only 1 ignition source!
P mags and more
Well it's me again. I have not had a chance to try the updates to the E/P mags lately because of a new job and lot of overtime. Besides the weather in Alaska sucks, Global Warming, I don't think so, Global Weirding is more like it. Snow storms in April and fresh snow on the mountain peaks almost every week.
Anyway. I will give the E/P mags another shot this weekend. If they screw up they will be gone.
I did use the Emagiar way of wiring. I do have 2 DPST toggle switches to each mag, I did use 18 gage wire, I do have them grounded to the engine.
Now there is another service bulletin which makes me not very happy. The mags were back to Emagair twice this summer. Oh well.
Thanks for all the great updates and vendor bashing.
What fun!
Mike
Well it's me again. I have not had a chance to try the updates to the E/P mags lately because of a new job and lot of overtime. Besides the weather in Alaska sucks, Global Warming, I don't think so, Global Weirding is more like it. Snow storms in April and fresh snow on the mountain peaks almost every week.
Anyway. I will give the E/P mags another shot this weekend. If they screw up they will be gone.
I did use the Emagiar way of wiring. I do have 2 DPST toggle switches to each mag, I did use 18 gage wire, I do have them grounded to the engine.
Now there is another service bulletin which makes me not very happy. The mags were back to Emagair twice this summer. Oh well.
Thanks for all the great updates and vendor bashing.
What fun!
Mike
P mag dead again
I went to the airport this evening to go for a short flight and started the engine. The engine did not sound right so I performed a mag check. When I turned off the p lead to the p mag there was no rpm drop, When I turned off the power to the p mag there was no rpm drop. When I turned off the p lead to the emag the engine died. The switches to the p mag had been returned to the on position.
I really think emagair is onto a great product but I can't seem to make them work for me. Maybe I am just too old school, or too old, whatever.
I will be removing the p and e mag this weekend for the last time and replacing them with slicks this next week. I don't think the slicks are as good as e/p mags are or someday will be but no one up here understands how to make them work including me. I do know traditional mags and I can make them work and almost every a&p mechanic anywhere knows how to repair them.
I really don't know what I will do with the e and P mags. I guess I should return them to emagair for the latest SB and try to sell them. At least if I get the latest fix then the next person that gets them might have better luck.
Really, I don't have any hard feelings towards Emagair or their product and I am not going to make this personal.
Any tips or ideas on selling the mags would be appreciated.
Scattered snow showers are expected this weekend and I want to go flying before real winter gets here. Maybe next weekend after the slick mags are installed I will but in the mean time another weekend has been lost to the e/p mag puzzle.
Mike Ice
I went to the airport this evening to go for a short flight and started the engine. The engine did not sound right so I performed a mag check. When I turned off the p lead to the p mag there was no rpm drop, When I turned off the power to the p mag there was no rpm drop. When I turned off the p lead to the emag the engine died. The switches to the p mag had been returned to the on position.
I really think emagair is onto a great product but I can't seem to make them work for me. Maybe I am just too old school, or too old, whatever.
I will be removing the p and e mag this weekend for the last time and replacing them with slicks this next week. I don't think the slicks are as good as e/p mags are or someday will be but no one up here understands how to make them work including me. I do know traditional mags and I can make them work and almost every a&p mechanic anywhere knows how to repair them.
I really don't know what I will do with the e and P mags. I guess I should return them to emagair for the latest SB and try to sell them. At least if I get the latest fix then the next person that gets them might have better luck.
Really, I don't have any hard feelings towards Emagair or their product and I am not going to make this personal.
Any tips or ideas on selling the mags would be appreciated.
Scattered snow showers are expected this weekend and I want to go flying before real winter gets here. Maybe next weekend after the slick mags are installed I will but in the mean time another weekend has been lost to the e/p mag puzzle.
Mike Ice
LifeofReiley
Well Known Member
PM Sent
Just sent a PM...
Just sent a PM...
RV7Guy
Well Known Member
Emag power
Mike,
You can't kill the power to the Emag. The engine will die if you also have the power to Pmag shut down. The Emag is power dependent.
No offense meant here Mike, but something is AFU in your install, wiring, or something. It is just unimaginable that you could have so many problems after having the units replaced and updated so many times.
I'm at a loss and wish they had worked for you. Before abandoning, I'd completely rewire everything. There are only a few wires and shouldn't be much harder than R and R of the mags several times. At least then, you could have piece of mind that you've tried everything.
I hate to see you invest in a complete new system only to discover there was some other issue unrelated to the Emag Pmag.
Mike,
You can't kill the power to the Emag. The engine will die if you also have the power to Pmag shut down. The Emag is power dependent.
No offense meant here Mike, but something is AFU in your install, wiring, or something. It is just unimaginable that you could have so many problems after having the units replaced and updated so many times.
I'm at a loss and wish they had worked for you. Before abandoning, I'd completely rewire everything. There are only a few wires and shouldn't be much harder than R and R of the mags several times. At least then, you could have piece of mind that you've tried everything.
I hate to see you invest in a complete new system only to discover there was some other issue unrelated to the Emag Pmag.
maybe my wires are crossed but
Darwin,
All my problems seem to actually be just one problem. The P mag doesn't seem to work all the time.
While performing a mag check on the Pmag I turned off the p lead noted the rpm drop, none, then turned the p lead back on. Then I turned the power off and noted the rpm drop, none, then turned it back on. After that I turned off the p lead to the emag and the engine died. This seems to mean to me that the pmag had never been on right from the engine start. Yes I know that if you turn off power to the emag while the pmag has no power to it the engine will die but there was power to the pmag, well at least the switch was on.
Your suggestion to rewire the mags is a good one and given different circumstances I might agree but when I do rewire it will be to use the Slick mags.
I would reallllly be upset to completely rewire the e/p mags and have the same problem happen again.
I want to go flying.
Thanks for your advice just the same.
Mike Ice
Darwin,
All my problems seem to actually be just one problem. The P mag doesn't seem to work all the time.
While performing a mag check on the Pmag I turned off the p lead noted the rpm drop, none, then turned the p lead back on. Then I turned the power off and noted the rpm drop, none, then turned it back on. After that I turned off the p lead to the emag and the engine died. This seems to mean to me that the pmag had never been on right from the engine start. Yes I know that if you turn off power to the emag while the pmag has no power to it the engine will die but there was power to the pmag, well at least the switch was on.
Your suggestion to rewire the mags is a good one and given different circumstances I might agree but when I do rewire it will be to use the Slick mags.
I would reallllly be upset to completely rewire the e/p mags and have the same problem happen again.
I want to go flying.
Thanks for your advice just the same.
Mike Ice
Just curious
I'm just curious if you have checked your wiring with a multimeter. I have to agree with Darwin. I think something is AFU. I've been flying P/Emags for >250 hours. I updated twice to newer models and now have 2 Pmags and they work great. I've only had a problem once when a magnet came apart. I find it near impossible to believe that you still have a bad PMag after all the updates and repairs. Good Luck.
I'm just curious if you have checked your wiring with a multimeter. I have to agree with Darwin. I think something is AFU. I've been flying P/Emags for >250 hours. I updated twice to newer models and now have 2 Pmags and they work great. I've only had a problem once when a magnet came apart. I find it near impossible to believe that you still have a bad PMag after all the updates and repairs. Good Luck.
wires AFU
Charlie,
I have checked my wiring with a multi meter. I have checked for loose wires. I have checked for frayed wires.
But... I agree it could be my wiring. Ok. no big deal, it may be AFU as you suggest but FIIGM slicks on order.
Hey, I admit I am technologically challenged, I don't even own a cell phone. I don't have an HD TV. I have a cabin that has no electricity and no running water and we use an outhouse and burn wood in a stove for heat but the view from the front door looks out over 2 mountains ranges and one truely magnifcent glacier.
I like to keep things simple and for ME the E/P mags have not worked. Why isn't as important to me as that they do or don't. Just a personal choice thing here.
I am not bad mouthing Emagair. I still think they have good products and GREAT customer service.
Mike Ice
Charlie,
I have checked my wiring with a multi meter. I have checked for loose wires. I have checked for frayed wires.
But... I agree it could be my wiring. Ok. no big deal, it may be AFU as you suggest but FIIGM slicks on order.
Hey, I admit I am technologically challenged, I don't even own a cell phone. I don't have an HD TV. I have a cabin that has no electricity and no running water and we use an outhouse and burn wood in a stove for heat but the view from the front door looks out over 2 mountains ranges and one truely magnifcent glacier.
I like to keep things simple and for ME the E/P mags have not worked. Why isn't as important to me as that they do or don't. Just a personal choice thing here.
I am not bad mouthing Emagair. I still think they have good products and GREAT customer service.
Mike Ice
RV7Guy
Well Known Member
Frustrating
Hey Mike,
I had to laugh at the technology challenged comment. I'm with you on that one. I had good guidance and took it slow. Knock on wood, no issues in 400 hours.
I wish you were close, I'd love to have a go at your system. Stuff like that becomes personal. I commend you for your perserverance.
Please let us know how the Slicks work out. If they don't work, make sure family member remove all sharp instruments and firearms from your access.
Hey Mike,
I had to laugh at the technology challenged comment. I'm with you on that one. I had good guidance and took it slow. Knock on wood, no issues in 400 hours.
I wish you were close, I'd love to have a go at your system. Stuff like that becomes personal. I commend you for your perserverance.
Please let us know how the Slicks work out. If they don't work, make sure family member remove all sharp instruments and firearms from your access.
checked again
Darwin,
I went out to the airplane today and checked the entire wire system and switches for the P mag. All of the wires and connectors tested fine with a multimeter and swiches were doing what switches are supposed to do. I checked to see that power was getting to the p mag and it was. I took out the pin connector from the p mag and checked all the wires to it as well for tighness and loose strands, they were all ok. I made sure the ground wire from the p mag went to and engine bolt (unlike what Mr. Knuckols suggests at the firewall ground)
When I started the engine, it started great, it ran just fine, so I did a mag check on the p mag, standard practice, p lead off then on noting no rpm drop. At that point I was sure the p mag wasn't working as usual but I tried the self powering function of the mag at about 1200 rpms, power switch off, no drop, power switch back on.
So I then turned off the p lead to the emag and the engine stopped right away. I knew it would, but I had to prove it to myself.
The p mag is dead as far as I can see. Why? I don't know.
Anyway, I just wanted to give them one more chance. I am sort of considering the possibility of getting another emag seeing as the one I have seems to be the only thing driving my plane and it works great.
But that seems unlikely, I have the slicks on order and will be switching them out next week. Maybe! Seems as if Unison has another SB out as well and if the set I ordered doesn't have compliance with the SB then I won't accept them for delivery.
I wonder if there is any advantage to running one emag and one slick?
Mike Ice
Darwin,
I went out to the airplane today and checked the entire wire system and switches for the P mag. All of the wires and connectors tested fine with a multimeter and swiches were doing what switches are supposed to do. I checked to see that power was getting to the p mag and it was. I took out the pin connector from the p mag and checked all the wires to it as well for tighness and loose strands, they were all ok. I made sure the ground wire from the p mag went to and engine bolt (unlike what Mr. Knuckols suggests at the firewall ground)
When I started the engine, it started great, it ran just fine, so I did a mag check on the p mag, standard practice, p lead off then on noting no rpm drop. At that point I was sure the p mag wasn't working as usual but I tried the self powering function of the mag at about 1200 rpms, power switch off, no drop, power switch back on.
So I then turned off the p lead to the emag and the engine stopped right away. I knew it would, but I had to prove it to myself.
The p mag is dead as far as I can see. Why? I don't know.
Anyway, I just wanted to give them one more chance. I am sort of considering the possibility of getting another emag seeing as the one I have seems to be the only thing driving my plane and it works great.
But that seems unlikely, I have the slicks on order and will be switching them out next week. Maybe! Seems as if Unison has another SB out as well and if the set I ordered doesn't have compliance with the SB then I won't accept them for delivery.
I wonder if there is any advantage to running one emag and one slick?
Mike Ice
lostpilot28
Well Known Member
Hey Mike...
I'm in the middle of doing my wiring (dual Pmag setup), and I've been pondering your problem. One thing that I noticed is that there are many different ways to wire 2 Pmags...or 1 Pmag and 1 Emag...or 2 Emags. Lots of variables. Not sure about what you checked today when you looked over your installation, but I didn't read where you actually looked at your circuit.
It sounds like your quality of wiring is fine, but maybe you have the wires hooked up incorrectly. If you had your Emag wired like a Pmag, and your Pmag wired like your Emag, it would die during your Mag check.
I spent the better half of an hour today making sure I had the right wires going to the right pins on the pack of my switches. If you labled your wires correctly (or if they're color coded) it should be easy to write up a quick wiring diagram of your setup. Then again, maybe it's too late for that if you've given up.
But after 8 years of Avionics Tech work in the Navy, I can tell you that until you read each wire end-to-end (unconnected), and then read it to ground to make sure it's not shorting, you'll never know for sure. Just looking at the wires in the ends of connectors isn't enough! Chasing wires is a pain to some, but some of us rather like it!
Either way, it doesn't sound like you've looked at everything. My guess is you don't have a short to ground, but you're wiring isn't correct. My apologies if you have checked this angle...if so, then belay my last.
I'm in the middle of doing my wiring (dual Pmag setup), and I've been pondering your problem. One thing that I noticed is that there are many different ways to wire 2 Pmags...or 1 Pmag and 1 Emag...or 2 Emags. Lots of variables. Not sure about what you checked today when you looked over your installation, but I didn't read where you actually looked at your circuit.
It sounds like your quality of wiring is fine, but maybe you have the wires hooked up incorrectly. If you had your Emag wired like a Pmag, and your Pmag wired like your Emag, it would die during your Mag check.
I spent the better half of an hour today making sure I had the right wires going to the right pins on the pack of my switches. If you labled your wires correctly (or if they're color coded) it should be easy to write up a quick wiring diagram of your setup. Then again, maybe it's too late for that if you've given up.
But after 8 years of Avionics Tech work in the Navy, I can tell you that until you read each wire end-to-end (unconnected), and then read it to ground to make sure it's not shorting, you'll never know for sure. Just looking at the wires in the ends of connectors isn't enough! Chasing wires is a pain to some, but some of us rather like it!
Either way, it doesn't sound like you've looked at everything. My guess is you don't have a short to ground, but you're wiring isn't correct. My apologies if you have checked this angle...if so, then belay my last.
wired right or wrong
Sonny,
If you follow the wiring diagram in the Emagair instructions I don't see how you could wire those puppies up any other way than the right way. Look at the diagram on page 21 of the instructions. Pretty simple. 4 toggle switches, 2 per mag, 1 for power, 1 for p-lead. What could be more simple than that.
I did use colored wire, aircraft grade, 18 gauge.
Anyway it is all over anyway. I completely removed the P/E mags from my plane today.
Thanks for the advice but it doesn't matter anymore for my case.
I will be sending the mags back to Emagair for the latest upgrades and ask them at that time if they find anything wrong with the P mag. I just think it is dead, probably a circuit board or something.
Hey if I am wrong, it happens all the time, I will be the first to admit it. But I can't see what I did wrong in this case.
Mike Ice
Sonny,
If you follow the wiring diagram in the Emagair instructions I don't see how you could wire those puppies up any other way than the right way. Look at the diagram on page 21 of the instructions. Pretty simple. 4 toggle switches, 2 per mag, 1 for power, 1 for p-lead. What could be more simple than that.
I did use colored wire, aircraft grade, 18 gauge.
Anyway it is all over anyway. I completely removed the P/E mags from my plane today.
Thanks for the advice but it doesn't matter anymore for my case.
I will be sending the mags back to Emagair for the latest upgrades and ask them at that time if they find anything wrong with the P mag. I just think it is dead, probably a circuit board or something.
Hey if I am wrong, it happens all the time, I will be the first to admit it. But I can't see what I did wrong in this case.
Mike Ice
lostpilot28
Well Known Member
Hi Mike,
I didn't know you were using the 4-switches method, as per the Emagair installation instructions. I'm going to use a DPDT switch for each Pmag (2-10 types, I think) as per the Aerolectric connection.
If you can, let us know what Emagair tells you about your Pmag...I'm interested to hear what they have to say. Thanks.
I didn't know you were using the 4-switches method, as per the Emagair installation instructions. I'm going to use a DPDT switch for each Pmag (2-10 types, I think) as per the Aerolectric connection.
If you can, let us know what Emagair tells you about your Pmag...I'm interested to hear what they have to say. Thanks.
Sonny,
I'm not sure if you are aware, but Bob Nuckolls changed his recommendation on wiring PMAGS. After discussing this issue with the Emagair folks he recommends wiring per their instructions. It seems that the units perform a self test when power is initially supplied, but only when the P-Leads are grounded. If the P-Lead is undgrounded the test isn't conducted. With Bob's initial wiring with a progressive switch (2-10) the units were powered simultaneously as the P-leads were ungrounded. I rewired and removed the 2-10 switches based on this information. I now am using 1-3 switches on each individual P-Lead. For now I am leaving the circuit with direct feeds from my fuse blocks to the P-mags and will remove the fuse(s) for any maintenance test etc. I have the series 114s.
I'm not sure if you are aware, but Bob Nuckolls changed his recommendation on wiring PMAGS. After discussing this issue with the Emagair folks he recommends wiring per their instructions. It seems that the units perform a self test when power is initially supplied, but only when the P-Leads are grounded. If the P-Lead is undgrounded the test isn't conducted. With Bob's initial wiring with a progressive switch (2-10) the units were powered simultaneously as the P-leads were ungrounded. I rewired and removed the 2-10 switches based on this information. I now am using 1-3 switches on each individual P-Lead. For now I am leaving the circuit with direct feeds from my fuse blocks to the P-mags and will remove the fuse(s) for any maintenance test etc. I have the series 114s.
N941WR
Legacy Member
Rocky,
You are correct; Bob did remove his recommendation of using the S700-2-10 switch after talking with Emagair.
It turned out that following Bob's recommendation caused many E/P-mags to loose their timing marks, including one of mine. This switch-ology would occasionally cause the E/P-mags to take the current crank position and use it as TDC, thus changing the timing.
Emagair has since re-written the firmware, eliminating this problem. That said, Emagair still does not recommend wiring them per Bob's Z-33 drawing. However, I have not changed my wiring and continue to use the S700-2-10 switches and have not had a single issue in over 200 hours since upgrading the firmware in both P-mags. (Contact Emagair for details, version numbers, etc.)
Let me make this clear, I highly recommend you wire your E/P-mags per Emaigair's recommendation. In other words, do as I say, not as I do.
I realize I could potentially have a problem as a result of my wiring, Emagair is aware that I have stayed with this wiring, and should I have a problem I will test the ignition in flight, shut off the offending P-mag, land, and address the issue. It also means they may not fix my P-mag under warranty, if it burns up.
You are correct; Bob did remove his recommendation of using the S700-2-10 switch after talking with Emagair.
It turned out that following Bob's recommendation caused many E/P-mags to loose their timing marks, including one of mine. This switch-ology would occasionally cause the E/P-mags to take the current crank position and use it as TDC, thus changing the timing.
Emagair has since re-written the firmware, eliminating this problem. That said, Emagair still does not recommend wiring them per Bob's Z-33 drawing. However, I have not changed my wiring and continue to use the S700-2-10 switches and have not had a single issue in over 200 hours since upgrading the firmware in both P-mags. (Contact Emagair for details, version numbers, etc.)
Let me make this clear, I highly recommend you wire your E/P-mags per Emaigair's recommendation. In other words, do as I say, not as I do.
I realize I could potentially have a problem as a result of my wiring, Emagair is aware that I have stayed with this wiring, and should I have a problem I will test the ignition in flight, shut off the offending P-mag, land, and address the issue. It also means they may not fix my P-mag under warranty, if it burns up.
lostpilot28
Well Known Member
Thanks, Rocky and Bill. I wish I would've known this a week ago prior to drilling all the holes in my instrument panel! However, if their firmware addresses the issue, then I'm OK with continuing down this path. Just to get a little more detail, what was the problem before the firmware fix? Did the firmware specifically address the use of the 2-10 switch?
N941WR
Legacy Member
Verify what I'm going to say with Emagair ...
From what I remember, they used to read the timing mark from volatile memory, and sometimes, not always, when you would do a full mag check with the S700-2-10 switches it would take the current crank position and save it to memory. Thus the lost timing issue.
The software update they released in July of '07 moved the timing mark to non-volatile memory. This change keeps the timing mark from getting overwritten when doing the mag check.
Again, I have to suggest you follow Emagair's wiring diagram.
For informational purposes only, there are some drawings at the bottom of my electrical page which details how I wired my P-mags and the pre-flight check procedure I use.
Another idea I came up with and passed by Emagair was to install another stereo plug in the power line. This would remove the P-mag from the electrical bus but allow me to use a 1/8" stereo plug to attach a 9V battery to the P-mag for hand propping, should I ever leave the master on overnight. Of course I would have to keep a fresh 9V battery and an adapter for the battery to plug into my system, in my flight bag.
fstringham7a
Well Known Member
RE:Wiring those mags
Sonny
To make a real long story short....long ago I decided to use Bob's Z 13/8 as my electrical architecture (version L 06/2006) and to use Emag's dual Pmag setup. Fast forward.....panel done/wires run/mags installed...........Bob makes a visit to the good folks at Emag and therefore makes some changes to the wiring of the Emag's "P" and "E" types....see http://www.aeroelectric.com/
the N version under the Z-diagrams. (12/2007). Plus alot of noise about the Emag products worthiness to be part of any aircraft......I then had discussion's with Brad (even this AM) and the aeroelectric crowd about the good bad and ugly of my now installed wiring scheme.....(to think I said this was going to be short)......To much to detail but......
1. The early version wiring scheme wouldn't allow timing as per the instructions from Emag....so
2. Z 33 was added to allow for this maintenance/hand proping......extra under cowl switch...more complicated wiring....plus some have suggested that this wiring scheme may have contributed to some mag failures....(not fact but maybe......)
3. so the latest N version of Z13/8 has the Pmag wired with the P lead to a
S7001-3 switch and the power lead directly to the main bus or as Bob suggest the endurance bus.
So my choices are .....Keep #1 above...not....I would have to use EMags EICAD to do timing.....Great tool but not as friendly (at least for me being tech challenged in the computer world)as the other ways to time.
Make the change to #2.....again considering the possible problems it created and Bob elimnated it from his Z diagrams so I will not follow that course.
Do #3 above. All the wire are in place....Easy to convert wires to new scheme.....will allow for timing process given by Emag.....but will not be as easy to do a mag check on run up.
Final choice would be to just bite the bullet and rewire as per Emags reccomendations. I have the space on the panel for the two extra switches. The wiring is already in place and could be easily converted to the new wiring set. I would need to buy 4 S700 1-3 switches....(anybody want to buy some very clean low mile S700 2-10 switches)
So what to do? Sonny like you, decision time. I am leaning (no pun intended) to the final choice above. I just hate the thoughts of drilling two new holes in my nicely powder coated panel......I see another thread coming???????
I hope this adds some clarity as you continue this wonderful enterprise we call AIRCRAFT FABRICATION!!!!
Frank @ 1L8 ...RV7A... paint and all that other stuff getting ready to head to the airport!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sonny
To make a real long story short....long ago I decided to use Bob's Z 13/8 as my electrical architecture (version L 06/2006) and to use Emag's dual Pmag setup. Fast forward.....panel done/wires run/mags installed...........Bob makes a visit to the good folks at Emag and therefore makes some changes to the wiring of the Emag's "P" and "E" types....see http://www.aeroelectric.com/
the N version under the Z-diagrams. (12/2007). Plus alot of noise about the Emag products worthiness to be part of any aircraft......I then had discussion's with Brad (even this AM) and the aeroelectric crowd about the good bad and ugly of my now installed wiring scheme.....(to think I said this was going to be short)......To much to detail but......
1. The early version wiring scheme wouldn't allow timing as per the instructions from Emag....so
2. Z 33 was added to allow for this maintenance/hand proping......extra under cowl switch...more complicated wiring....plus some have suggested that this wiring scheme may have contributed to some mag failures....(not fact but maybe......)
3. so the latest N version of Z13/8 has the Pmag wired with the P lead to a
S7001-3 switch and the power lead directly to the main bus or as Bob suggest the endurance bus.
So my choices are .....Keep #1 above...not....I would have to use EMags EICAD to do timing.....Great tool but not as friendly (at least for me being tech challenged in the computer world)as the other ways to time.
Make the change to #2.....again considering the possible problems it created and Bob elimnated it from his Z diagrams so I will not follow that course.
Do #3 above. All the wire are in place....Easy to convert wires to new scheme.....will allow for timing process given by Emag.....but will not be as easy to do a mag check on run up.
Final choice would be to just bite the bullet and rewire as per Emags reccomendations. I have the space on the panel for the two extra switches. The wiring is already in place and could be easily converted to the new wiring set. I would need to buy 4 S700 1-3 switches....(anybody want to buy some very clean low mile S700 2-10 switches)
So what to do? Sonny like you, decision time. I am leaning (no pun intended) to the final choice above. I just hate the thoughts of drilling two new holes in my nicely powder coated panel......I see another thread coming???????
I hope this adds some clarity as you continue this wonderful enterprise we call AIRCRAFT FABRICATION!!!!
Frank @ 1L8 ...RV7A... paint and all that other stuff getting ready to head to the airport!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Last edited:
Mike S
Senior Curmudgeon
Do #3 above. All the wire are in place....Easy to convert wires to new scheme.....will allow for timing process given by Emag.....but will not be as easy to do a mag check on run up.
Final choice would be to just bite the bullet and rewire as per Emags reccomendations. I have the space on the panel for the two extra switches. The wiring is already in place and could be easily converted to the new wiring set. I would need to buy 4 S700 1-3 switches....
So what to do? Sonny like you, decision time. I am leaning (no pun intended) to the final choice above. I just hate the thoughts of drilling two new holes in my nicely powder coated panel......I see another thread coming???????
I hope this adds some clarity as you continue this wonderful enterprise we call AIRCRAFT FABRICATION!!!!
Frank @ 1L8 ...RV7A... paint and all that other stuff getting ready to head to the airport!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sounds like you need a little nudge in the above direction.
DO IT.
There did that help
In all seriousness, the time and $$ involved are totally insignificant in the total picture.
Dont let the "Gottagofly" bug bite you in the rearend.
As to drilling a couple of new holes in your new powder coated panel, Been there, done that. A total non issue, I have added switches, breakers, and indicator light holes with no problem as to damaging the paint. A unibit is the secret here.
Good luck.
fstringham7a
Well Known Member
RE:Thanks...I think
Mike
Thanks for the nudge. I think!! I have had a lull in painting...waiting on supplies...so this is probably the project while I wait for the UPS truck!!!!
Frank @ 1L8 ...RV7A... paint...now back to wiring...will it ever end
Mike
Thanks for the nudge. I think!! I have had a lull in painting...waiting on supplies...so this is probably the project while I wait for the UPS truck!!!!
Frank @ 1L8 ...RV7A... paint...now back to wiring...will it ever end
I'm not sure but I think EMag has removed the timing function from EICAD. I was over there talking to them last week and mentioned that I couldn't find the timing function. I think Tom said that was because they did away with it. I have an onboard computer hooked up to both PMags and I couldn't figure out how to time it with the computer. I just blew in the tube (sts).
fstringham7a
Well Known Member
RE:Truth
Charlie
If your recollection is correct, and I have very little doubt that it is, once again I have been passing bad info to the troops and troopets (is that politcally correct).
Thanks for the heads up.
Frank @ 1L8 ....RV7A... NFY
Charlie
If your recollection is correct, and I have very little doubt that it is, once again I have been passing bad info to the troops and troopets (is that politcally correct).
Thanks for the heads up.
Frank @ 1L8 ....RV7A... NFY
lostpilot28
Well Known Member
OK, I should use Rev numbers to describe what I'm doing...my PMags are currently wired to match the Z-13/8 with Dual PMags drawing (Revision L). The PMags in Rev L use the same wiring as the EMag in the same drawing of Revision N (the one you were referencing, Frank).
I don't see how Revision N wiring of the PMag allows for testing of it's internal generator. It's either on or off.
Now, it seems that the diagram for Rev. L works for some, and given that I've got the newer firmware, I'm planning to keep my setup, hoping that it'll work for me, too. My decision is mine alone, but I base it on the facts that I've gathered so far.
However, I'm not done with my research yet...I've got an e-mail into Bob Nuckolls, and I'm going to call EMagAir tomorrow and discuss this.
I don't see how Revision N wiring of the PMag allows for testing of it's internal generator. It's either on or off.
Now, it seems that the diagram for Rev. L works for some, and given that I've got the newer firmware, I'm planning to keep my setup, hoping that it'll work for me, too. My decision is mine alone, but I base it on the facts that I've gathered so far.
However, I'm not done with my research yet...I've got an e-mail into Bob Nuckolls, and I'm going to call EMagAir tomorrow and discuss this.
N941WR
Legacy Member
When last I checked with Emagair on this subject, they said to pull the breaker every so often. Well... I figured if it was OK to do that once a month or so, it would be OK to do it before each flight, so I do.
PS. Sonny, I sent you an email.
fstringham7a
Well Known Member
RE:Info
Sonny
I look forward to your info from Bob and Brad. I know you will get the straight scoop from them as compared to......me. Like you I will continue my reasearch but I am pretty sure I will be leaving the L version for the Emag or N version at aeroelectric.
I have greatly appreciated all who have contributed to this thread it has really enligthened me.
Thanks
Frank @ 1L8 ...RV7A... NDY
Sonny
I look forward to your info from Bob and Brad. I know you will get the straight scoop from them as compared to......me. Like you I will continue my reasearch but I am pretty sure I will be leaving the L version for the Emag or N version at aeroelectric.
I have greatly appreciated all who have contributed to this thread it has really enligthened me.
Thanks
Frank @ 1L8 ...RV7A... NDY
I've glanced through the prior three pages of posts, and I'd like to throw some toads into the witch's brew:
My recollection of talking with Brad about the overwriting problem is they were dealing with inconsistencies between chip sources. Some ICs had unused **** on them that would bugger up what functions the mags used. That (or whatever problem it was) is history.
I've kept the progressive switching for dual p-mags. It can't go wrong, opening and closing contacts in the correct order. Their wiring doesn't work for e-mags! The differing switchology was a prime motivator for my decision to go with two of the same ignition (dual p's) three years ago. KISS. Someone mentioned a self test is run at ungrounding. Can't! There's no power for a self test. If power is applied before ungrounding, p-mags are thrown into the set-up mode.
Another anomaly I've encountered and Brad explained is this: there is a very narrow voltage band which if encountered during start-up (engine cranking), causes the ignition to shut down. If you crank with both ignitions on, you may not notice that one isn't working unless you power cycle them. I've found this problem twice in 50 hours. E-mag's latest firmware squashes this bug.
Some of you sharp eyed ones might notice that Sonny (LostPilot28) and I live in Boise. He's diagonally opposite me on the other side of town, which is just as well since he's confessed to enjoying wire tracing.
John Siebold
My recollection of talking with Brad about the overwriting problem is they were dealing with inconsistencies between chip sources. Some ICs had unused **** on them that would bugger up what functions the mags used. That (or whatever problem it was) is history.
I've kept the progressive switching for dual p-mags. It can't go wrong, opening and closing contacts in the correct order. Their wiring doesn't work for e-mags! The differing switchology was a prime motivator for my decision to go with two of the same ignition (dual p's) three years ago. KISS. Someone mentioned a self test is run at ungrounding. Can't! There's no power for a self test. If power is applied before ungrounding, p-mags are thrown into the set-up mode.
Another anomaly I've encountered and Brad explained is this: there is a very narrow voltage band which if encountered during start-up (engine cranking), causes the ignition to shut down. If you crank with both ignitions on, you may not notice that one isn't working unless you power cycle them. I've found this problem twice in 50 hours. E-mag's latest firmware squashes this bug.
Some of you sharp eyed ones might notice that Sonny (LostPilot28) and I live in Boise. He's diagonally opposite me on the other side of town, which is just as well since he's confessed to enjoying wire tracing.
John Siebold
rvator51
Well Known Member
Confused about setup mode.
The installation manuals for the setup mode say:
"Setup Mode is entered by turning 12 volt buss power ON, while the p-lead
switch is OFF (grounded). "
The operating notes to start the engine say:
"Starting - To start the engine:
1. First - turn ON buss power to the ignition (presumably your main power
switch),
2. Then turn ON the ignition p-lead switch (un-ground)."
When you do step 1 above and turn on the buss power while the p-lead is still grounded, doesnt this put the p-mag into setup mode each time? I am sure I am missing something here, but dont know what.
The installation manuals for the setup mode say:
"Setup Mode is entered by turning 12 volt buss power ON, while the p-lead
switch is OFF (grounded). "
The operating notes to start the engine say:
"Starting - To start the engine:
1. First - turn ON buss power to the ignition (presumably your main power
switch),
2. Then turn ON the ignition p-lead switch (un-ground)."
When you do step 1 above and turn on the buss power while the p-lead is still grounded, doesnt this put the p-mag into setup mode each time? I am sure I am missing something here, but dont know what.
G
Geoff
Not confused
That's exactly what happens. You're not missing anything. Unless you blow into the MP tube while it's in setup mode, no setup occurs. Maybe a better name for it would be "primed for setup if you take additional steps" mode.
Excluding the blowing into the tube thing, the only difference between setup mode and run mode is that in setup mode A) the plugs won't fire and B) the LED will be green at TDC and red everywhere else. This is useful if/when you want to check the timing of the things at some point down the road (like the condition inspection). Just put them into setup mode and check for green LEDs when the engine is at TDC.
That's exactly what happens. You're not missing anything. Unless you blow into the MP tube while it's in setup mode, no setup occurs. Maybe a better name for it would be "primed for setup if you take additional steps" mode.
Excluding the blowing into the tube thing, the only difference between setup mode and run mode is that in setup mode A) the plugs won't fire and B) the LED will be green at TDC and red everywhere else. This is useful if/when you want to check the timing of the things at some point down the road (like the condition inspection). Just put them into setup mode and check for green LEDs when the engine is at TDC.
tommylewis
Well Known Member
PMAGs upgraded
I had my two PMAGs upgraded to the recent service bulletin last week and installed them back in my RV7a. I have flown 3 times since, practicing approaches for a trip to New England this weekend and now have 414 hours on my PMAGs. One side benefit to the SB upgrade is that they check the PMAGs over and in my case they found that one of my PMAGs had a near over temperature occur in the last 140 hours since the last SB upgrade in March. Brad suggested I check over my installation. I have, and added another blast tube to my right PMAG installation. They also added a temperature tab to each that will turn dark color if the 200 deg temperature is exceeded. Will be checking these at each oil change.
My installation is per the standard wiring diagram in their manual.
Keep flying!!!
I had my two PMAGs upgraded to the recent service bulletin last week and installed them back in my RV7a. I have flown 3 times since, practicing approaches for a trip to New England this weekend and now have 414 hours on my PMAGs. One side benefit to the SB upgrade is that they check the PMAGs over and in my case they found that one of my PMAGs had a near over temperature occur in the last 140 hours since the last SB upgrade in March. Brad suggested I check over my installation. I have, and added another blast tube to my right PMAG installation. They also added a temperature tab to each that will turn dark color if the 200 deg temperature is exceeded. Will be checking these at each oil change.
My installation is per the standard wiring diagram in their manual.
Keep flying!!!
