Van's Air Force
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NO EAA in Sun n' Fun?
- Thread starter Rosie
- Start date
f1rocket
Well Known Member
Rosie,
I think that's a good thing. I really don't care much for SnF for a number of reasons, not the least of which is that it's probably the most dangerous fly-in I've ever attended. It it weren't in Florida in the the sun when most of the northern states are still cold, I'd bet the attendace wouldn't be that great.
In general, I don't think it run that great, it seems expensive to me, and that dust......man, bring lot's of paper towels and rags. I love the Florida sun and the people down there are great and friendly, but SnF has been losing vendors at a pretty steady rate.
I do like stopping in and spending the night at Cedar Key on the way down. Nice little town right on the gulf coast. I would recommend it. Otherwise, skip the show and keep going south till you get to Key West.
I think that's a good thing. I really don't care much for SnF for a number of reasons, not the least of which is that it's probably the most dangerous fly-in I've ever attended. It it weren't in Florida in the the sun when most of the northern states are still cold, I'd bet the attendace wouldn't be that great.
In general, I don't think it run that great, it seems expensive to me, and that dust......man, bring lot's of paper towels and rags. I love the Florida sun and the people down there are great and friendly, but SnF has been losing vendors at a pretty steady rate.
I do like stopping in and spending the night at Cedar Key on the way down. Nice little town right on the gulf coast. I would recommend it. Otherwise, skip the show and keep going south till you get to Key West.
No EAA in Sun N Fun
Rosie,
You know I missed that one.
I'm going this year for the first time since 2001 and I didn't even notice it wan't listed that way. It is still linked from EAA which is how I got my update for this year and they still give a discount to EAA members but you are right in that they took it out of the name.
I would agree with Randy on the dust and dirt issue. It is nice and warm but there's black dust/dirt all over everything including the planes and some of the guys said you have to be real careful in cleaning it off so you don't scratch anything on your plane.
There do seem to be much greater number of arrival problems and crashes associated with it too. Not sure if it's because it's early and people are "rusty" (I've hear that reason used before) or another bigger problem causing it. In any event I guess I could understand EAA wanting to distance themselves from it if they felt it wasn't going to improve.
I'm looking forward to some warmth and RV's but I agree, Key West might be more fun
Having said that I can't wait to get away from the fresh snow falling right now and to someplace warm with RV's and cold ones with friends.
Rosie say hi to your bride for me.
Be well and be safe you guys.
Rosie,
You know I missed that one.
I'm going this year for the first time since 2001 and I didn't even notice it wan't listed that way. It is still linked from EAA which is how I got my update for this year and they still give a discount to EAA members but you are right in that they took it out of the name.
I would agree with Randy on the dust and dirt issue. It is nice and warm but there's black dust/dirt all over everything including the planes and some of the guys said you have to be real careful in cleaning it off so you don't scratch anything on your plane.
There do seem to be much greater number of arrival problems and crashes associated with it too. Not sure if it's because it's early and people are "rusty" (I've hear that reason used before) or another bigger problem causing it. In any event I guess I could understand EAA wanting to distance themselves from it if they felt it wasn't going to improve.
I'm looking forward to some warmth and RV's but I agree, Key West might be more fun
Having said that I can't wait to get away from the fresh snow falling right now and to someplace warm with RV's and cold ones with friends.
Rosie say hi to your bride for me.
Be well and be safe you guys.
rv7boy
Forum Peruser
No EAA in Sun'n Fun
I am of the opinion that Sun'n Fun has been legally separated from EAA as an official EAA event for a long time. I became aware of it through a particular publication which is now an electronic aviation publication (don't ask me the name, please). Those of you in the know will know who and what I am talking about. I've been to SnF maybe 5 times, but for various reasons, I have not been there in a long time, maybe 7 years. If you go, keep your eyes and ears open between Lake Parker and the tie-down spot; in my opinion, the approach and landing procedure as practiced is more hectic than Oshkosh. Whether it's the pilots or the procedure, I'm not sure. The weather is nice in Central Florida at that time of year, though.
Don Hull
I am of the opinion that Sun'n Fun has been legally separated from EAA as an official EAA event for a long time. I became aware of it through a particular publication which is now an electronic aviation publication (don't ask me the name, please). Those of you in the know will know who and what I am talking about. I've been to SnF maybe 5 times, but for various reasons, I have not been there in a long time, maybe 7 years. If you go, keep your eyes and ears open between Lake Parker and the tie-down spot; in my opinion, the approach and landing procedure as practiced is more hectic than Oshkosh. Whether it's the pilots or the procedure, I'm not sure. The weather is nice in Central Florida at that time of year, though.
Don Hull
f1rocket
Well Known Member
That approach is simply ridiculous. Lake Parker is not large enough to handle the airplanes that show up, so everybody crowds close together. It's true that some folks can't hold an altitude and can't read the NOTAM, but the procedure itself doesn't leave much room for error. Then, once you're inbound, you've got to turn left then right then left again whicle you're looking for landmarks. It's a challenge to get down safely, but not impossible.
Most of the Indy gang goes down but stays at the seaplane base at Winter Haven.
Most of the Indy gang goes down but stays at the seaplane base at Winter Haven.
Tandem46
Well Known Member
I know S&F has had their share of problems in the past, but I don't think the relationship between EAA and S&F is quite as bad as some would have one believe. Here are some direct quotes from Tom Poberezny in the March 2005 issue of Sport Aviation.
"..We have ventured into a new agreement that defines our relationship and operational parameters. It builds on the long and strong relationship between the two organizations and ensures that Sun n Fun will continue to grow and be an important part of the aviation scene."
"All of us believe the new agreement positively enhances the relationship between Sun n Fun and EAA."
Tobin
"..We have ventured into a new agreement that defines our relationship and operational parameters. It builds on the long and strong relationship between the two organizations and ensures that Sun n Fun will continue to grow and be an important part of the aviation scene."
"All of us believe the new agreement positively enhances the relationship between Sun n Fun and EAA."
Tobin
atreff
Well Known Member
Re: Sun n Fun
To read this thread, you'd think that SnF was dying down in FL. Not true.
I had the chance to speak to an officer of Sun n Fun on the ramp at LAL this past Jan. What some may not know is SnF is a not-for-profit corp, volunteer staffed and committed to becoming a major player in Aviation Educaton. The corporation has many year long programs on week nights, weekends and summer camps that work toward the education of youth about aviation. They tirelessly work on upgrading the facilities toward that goal, and want LAL and the SnF campus on it to become a mecca for aviation education, just like their bretheren in OSH. I was astounded at all that's going on within that organization. There are plans to build year round dormatories for education events. Their camping facilities rival most state parks I've stayed in as far as the showers are concerned.
I too was always under the impression that SnF's airshow was an EAA event, but it never has been. SnF has always welcomed EAA, and grants discounts to EAA members, but they are not one in the same organization.
I don't know about any vendors backing out of the airshow, because I am not in a position to have the statistics on that, but I've been to SnF for the past 9 years and the show floor is always jammed with vendors and attendees, all four buildings and the tent city on the flightline. The food keeps getting better, they now have espresso vendors, and chain restaurants like MargharitaVille, and Outback Steakhouse set up for the week, complete with live entertainment.
I have a beef with SnF myself that goes back a few years, but that's personal, and has nothing to do with what this fine organization is trying to accomplish. SnF, EAA, AOPA, as long as they're all advocates for flying, I'll support them by spending $$ there.
To read this thread, you'd think that SnF was dying down in FL. Not true.
I had the chance to speak to an officer of Sun n Fun on the ramp at LAL this past Jan. What some may not know is SnF is a not-for-profit corp, volunteer staffed and committed to becoming a major player in Aviation Educaton. The corporation has many year long programs on week nights, weekends and summer camps that work toward the education of youth about aviation. They tirelessly work on upgrading the facilities toward that goal, and want LAL and the SnF campus on it to become a mecca for aviation education, just like their bretheren in OSH. I was astounded at all that's going on within that organization. There are plans to build year round dormatories for education events. Their camping facilities rival most state parks I've stayed in as far as the showers are concerned.
I too was always under the impression that SnF's airshow was an EAA event, but it never has been. SnF has always welcomed EAA, and grants discounts to EAA members, but they are not one in the same organization.
I don't know about any vendors backing out of the airshow, because I am not in a position to have the statistics on that, but I've been to SnF for the past 9 years and the show floor is always jammed with vendors and attendees, all four buildings and the tent city on the flightline. The food keeps getting better, they now have espresso vendors, and chain restaurants like MargharitaVille, and Outback Steakhouse set up for the week, complete with live entertainment.
I have a beef with SnF myself that goes back a few years, but that's personal, and has nothing to do with what this fine organization is trying to accomplish. SnF, EAA, AOPA, as long as they're all advocates for flying, I'll support them by spending $$ there.
Sun 'n Fun is cool
I went to SNF last year for the first time, and I thought it was great. It rained on the first day, and then was sunny and in the 60s the second day, and then warmed up to the high 70s and low 80s. Perfect weather. I didn't notice any dust at all, probably due to the rain on the first day.
I drove in, and the parking was easy to find, and while huge, the flow was excellent. The only problem was that my brother and I forgot where we parked the rental car. In fact, I forgot what kind of car we had, so one of the volunteers drove us around for about 40 minutes in a golf cart while we looked for it. Good thing the remote popped the trunk open!
Plenty of vendors, lots of beautiful aircraft, good infrastructure, great people, and lots of airshows. I'm looking forward to being there next month!
I went to SNF last year for the first time, and I thought it was great. It rained on the first day, and then was sunny and in the 60s the second day, and then warmed up to the high 70s and low 80s. Perfect weather. I didn't notice any dust at all, probably due to the rain on the first day.
I drove in, and the parking was easy to find, and while huge, the flow was excellent. The only problem was that my brother and I forgot where we parked the rental car. In fact, I forgot what kind of car we had, so one of the volunteers drove us around for about 40 minutes in a golf cart while we looked for it. Good thing the remote popped the trunk open!
Plenty of vendors, lots of beautiful aircraft, good infrastructure, great people, and lots of airshows. I'm looking forward to being there next month!
No Race Either
I read the Sport Aviation Position Report and saw the clear separation between the two organizations as well. Like someone else in the thread I recall this always being the case. I was surprised however when I received my Sun 100 entry fee check back from Aircraft Spruce saying the the race has been cancelled by Sun 'n Fun Management. Unfortunately I had already purchased my week long admission tickets before this news came out. After hearing about the black abrasive dust I think I will just write off the $135 to experience and save the plane.
Bob Axsom
I read the Sport Aviation Position Report and saw the clear separation between the two organizations as well. Like someone else in the thread I recall this always being the case. I was surprised however when I received my Sun 100 entry fee check back from Aircraft Spruce saying the the race has been cancelled by Sun 'n Fun Management. Unfortunately I had already purchased my week long admission tickets before this news came out. After hearing about the black abrasive dust I think I will just write off the $135 to experience and save the plane.
Bob Axsom
Randy,
I don't quite understand your comment about Lake Parker. It (the lake area) seems similar to me as Ripon. It is a clear reference point.
The headings from there are pretty clear (due West and then due South to the airport).
What **I** find is problematic is (as you say) the appearance that some people are not following the NOTAM **and/or** have not had much experience flying their planes straight and level at speeds less than wide open.
The other concern I have is that the controllers bring you in too close (for me) for the downwind turn. Many planes at events like this are HEAVY (loaded with stuff) and in the excitement, making the base to final turn becomes problematic.
So ... are you saying that Lake Parker is too small to circle around when there is a problem? If that is the case, I guess this is very true if there are MANY planes having to hold.
James
I don't quite understand your comment about Lake Parker. It (the lake area) seems similar to me as Ripon. It is a clear reference point.
The headings from there are pretty clear (due West and then due South to the airport).
What **I** find is problematic is (as you say) the appearance that some people are not following the NOTAM **and/or** have not had much experience flying their planes straight and level at speeds less than wide open.
The other concern I have is that the controllers bring you in too close (for me) for the downwind turn. Many planes at events like this are HEAVY (loaded with stuff) and in the excitement, making the base to final turn becomes problematic.
So ... are you saying that Lake Parker is too small to circle around when there is a problem? If that is the case, I guess this is very true if there are MANY planes having to hold.
James
f1rocket said:
Bob,
The dust is no worse (in my opinion) than any place where you have lots of planes and less grass. The grass thickness is a function of how much rain there was in Florida the weeks before.
I have seem people with a couple of bottles of water rinsing it off.
Also, there are some nice parking areas where I have been with NO "black abraisive dust".
I am sure you know but there may be people who are thinking about going for the first time and may be turned off. I am just providing a different perspective.
James
...no affiliation with SnF
The dust is no worse (in my opinion) than any place where you have lots of planes and less grass. The grass thickness is a function of how much rain there was in Florida the weeks before.
I have seem people with a couple of bottles of water rinsing it off.
Also, there are some nice parking areas where I have been with NO "black abraisive dust".
I am sure you know but there may be people who are thinking about going for the first time and may be turned off. I am just providing a different perspective.
James
...no affiliation with SnF
Bob Axsom said:
Sun N Fun
Guys,
I'm sorry if anyone took my post as a hit on Sun N Fun. It wasn't meant that way at all.
I'm going this year and looking forward to it.
Yes, it was very dry the year I went and there was dust but as was mentioned a little water solves it, just don't rub BEFORE rinsing was what I probably should have said the first time.
Right now it has WARMED up to about 32 degrees here so going to an airshow in the 80's or warmer and having to put up with a little heat and dust is not a bad thing.
I hope you guys all attend that can and that I'll see you guys there.
Sorry again if anybody took offense.
Guys,
I'm sorry if anyone took my post as a hit on Sun N Fun. It wasn't meant that way at all.
I'm going this year and looking forward to it.
Yes, it was very dry the year I went and there was dust but as was mentioned a little water solves it, just don't rub BEFORE rinsing was what I probably should have said the first time.
Right now it has WARMED up to about 32 degrees here so going to an airshow in the 80's or warmer and having to put up with a little heat and dust is not a bad thing.
I hope you guys all attend that can and that I'll see you guys there.
Sorry again if anybody took offense.
f1rocket
Well Known Member
Jim,
They were probably taking more offense to my posts.
Don't get me wrong, if you've never been to it, by all means go to it. But if you've been to AirVenture, just don't expect this to be the same. I've been a couple of times and it just doesn't float my boat.
.....and try to arrive over Lake Parker when no one else is there (if that's possible!)
They were probably taking more offense to my posts.
Don't get me wrong, if you've never been to it, by all means go to it. But if you've been to AirVenture, just don't expect this to be the same. I've been a couple of times and it just doesn't float my boat.
.....and try to arrive over Lake Parker when no one else is there (if that's possible!)
Decided to go to Sun 'n Fun
After giving it a LOT of thought we decided to go to Sun 'n Fun in spite of the concerns and the lack of a race. After Making the decision I received a nice call from a man named Harbaugh explaining the race situation as a decision made to allow changes to be made with time to evaluate them before implementation. He did explain (as one of the earlier posts described) that they are working very hard to make Sun 'n Fun into a year round operation with a focus on getting young people to understand and become involved in aviation. It sounds like a good objective and I wish them well but they have got their work cut out for them. Lest we think that Mr. Harbaugh might be a dreamer not accustomed to difficult tasks I should add that he was an astronaut who did EVAs (space walks) to repair the Hubble telescope before he retired in 2001 and went to work for Sun 'n Fun.
Bob Axsom
After giving it a LOT of thought we decided to go to Sun 'n Fun in spite of the concerns and the lack of a race. After Making the decision I received a nice call from a man named Harbaugh explaining the race situation as a decision made to allow changes to be made with time to evaluate them before implementation. He did explain (as one of the earlier posts described) that they are working very hard to make Sun 'n Fun into a year round operation with a focus on getting young people to understand and become involved in aviation. It sounds like a good objective and I wish them well but they have got their work cut out for them. Lest we think that Mr. Harbaugh might be a dreamer not accustomed to difficult tasks I should add that he was an astronaut who did EVAs (space walks) to repair the Hubble telescope before he retired in 2001 and went to work for Sun 'n Fun.
Bob Axsom
atreff
Well Known Member
Bob: Glad you're coming!
Bob,
I'm glad that the dust did not deter you from coming to SnF. It's a great show, and some years (like last year) it rained hard two days before the opening. Not much dust at all where I was camped. I think you'll like it a great deal. RV's just keep arriving all week, the trade show floor has all the aviation vendors, and the hands-on workshops run continuously. Oh, I forgot the airshow every day, is usually worth watchng at least one day during your stay. I also love the Factory demo fly-by's at 11:00am each day.
I have never had a difficult time with the arrival procecure, but I usually arrive late in the day, or very early in the am. At those times, I've had anywhere from 0-3 aircraft in front of me, pretty easy to deal with. Memorize the approach instructions, so you can keep your head out of the cockpit, pay attention to the radio call outs from the tower, and keep your head on a swivel. You'll do just fine. I've never had any airborne "close calls" in 7 years of arriving.
Bob,
I'm glad that the dust did not deter you from coming to SnF.
It's a great show, and some years (like last year) it rained hard two days before the opening. Not much dust at all where I was camped. I think you'll like it a great deal. RV's just keep arriving all week, the trade show floor has all the aviation vendors, and the hands-on workshops run continuously. Oh, I forgot the airshow every day, is usually worth watchng at least one day during your stay. I also love the Factory demo fly-by's at 11:00am each day. I have never had a difficult time with the arrival procecure, but I usually arrive late in the day, or very early in the am. At those times, I've had anywhere from 0-3 aircraft in front of me, pretty easy to deal with. Memorize the approach instructions, so you can keep your head out of the cockpit, pay attention to the radio call outs from the tower, and keep your head on a swivel. You'll do just fine. I've never had any airborne "close calls" in 7 years of arriving.
