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Night Ops...????

Steve Brown said:
I know they happen.

I have some questions that would help me and others understand how your results relate to our chances of the same problem:

what is your total flying time?
14,000+

were all three in the same airplane?
No.

What kind of airplane/s?
First was in a B1900 and I had about 3000 hrs. Second was in an ATR72 and I had about 5000 hrs. Last was in an A320 with about 9000 hrs

did you own the airplane/s?
No



what caused the engine outs?
First was uncontained turbine failure. Second was a high pressure bleed leak on engine. Third was a computer problem that caused the engine to shut down.
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I've flown with guys who've never had an engine failure after 30+ yrs of flying and thousands of hours. There's no rhyme or reason to them, with proper mx. I'm not saying to never fly SE night...just put the odds in your favor and realize it's different than day ops.
 
"But all the time that he worked on the plane, a persistent thought
haunted him. He had had sixteen forced landings with this plane ---
every one of them attributable to engine failure. Wasn't sixteen
enough for one man?"

From "Glacier Pilot: The Story of Bob Reeve", by Beth Day.

:eek:

--Paul
 
Just yesterday....

We landed at Bush Field in Augusta, Ga. after shooting an ILS and taxied to the ramp and parked by an orange -8A with both cowls off.

We walked over and met the gentleman from Canada, on his way to a winter home near Tampa, wondering if he needed help.

One of his exhaust pipes had completely broken off, all the way around the weld at the flange and had started burning the cowl when he landed at Bush, at night!!

Larry sent him a new pipe overnight and we helped him buckle the airplane back up.

I then renewed my vow to fly as little at night as I can because stuff happens.

Best,
 
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thanks for those detail!

jmbrwn said:
I've flown with guys who've never had an engine failure after 30+ yrs of flying and thousands of hours. There's no rhyme or reason to them, with proper mx. I'm not saying to never fly SE night...just put the odds in your favor and realize it's different than day ops.
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Gives me something to chew on
 
Sam Buchanan said:
Actual footage of a cylinder exploding on takeoff and the "impossible" turn back to the airport:

http://aopa.ip02.org/rd/9z1z7b0s1dd7kfspkm3usc1t979umpl8qo0ccks7tp8
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I've looked at it - been wondering if the reason it appears so easy was the engine was producing some power until he pulled the mixture. Not only did he make the runway, he nearly flew past it.

I am also wondering why they even posted it with the caveat "don't do this". It sure looks like a peace of cake and we all know it isn't.
 
Single engine night operations

When I was a navigator on tankers we occasionally would have a 3:00AM launch on a fighter drag to Europe. The reason was the Tactical Air Command prohibited single seat fighters from landing at an unfamiliar base at night. To get the A-7D across the pond before dark, we had to leave early. When I started flying again, I expanded that concept to my personal flying. Before I tried significant night flying, I expanded it to "no night flying."
It is gratifying to read where the most experienced pilots are saying the same thing; "Don't fly single engine at night."
 
FWIW, in about 12000 hours of flying, 4 complete engine failures:

#1 C172, ran it out of gas day VFR. Me, the noob pilot, landed successfully at an uncontrolled field. Worst part was pushing the plane back to the pumps while all the old farts at the FBO stood on the porch laughing.
#2 Boeing E-3A (707), oil pressure loss over southern Iraq.
#3 Boeing E-3A, ruptured fuel manifold inside the engine during a touch and go. Nice fire with that one.
#4 Beech B-55 Baron. Lost one whole blade off the left propeller, day VFR, cruise at 8500 MSL. Only airplane I've "totaled" in flight (wing spar damage). No fire, luckily, and the engine nacelle didn't leave the airplane. But it was hanging down at an ugly angle.

I do fly at night in the RV, but manage the risk factors very carefully. If the engine quits, I want to be able to see and land on either a lit runway, or an interstate freeway. Preferably, of course, the runway. No way would I attempt this without instrument proficiency, or with limited experience in the airplane. I fly HIGH at night to maximize glide distance, keeping landing sites in range probably 90% of the time. For me, its OK to accept brief periods of time without hard landing surfaces, but never over forest, city-scapes, mountains, etc. I don't fly VFR on top at night and always stay VMC with 20+ miles visibility.

So, its all about how you assess and manage risk.
 
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I say if you are going to fly at night, at least have HID lights and in the wings not the tips. If you have flown with these wonders, you will SEE why. And the highest output ones as well, oh and both wings.
 
Night Flying

Urban night flying in good VFR weather conditions is fine however venturing beyond the city lights on a dark night as far as I am concerned is an IFR operation. If you or your airplane are not IFR capable you shouldn't be out there in the black of night. Cross country night flying is a challange and such flights should be planned and flown in accordance with IFR. Glass cockpits and auto pilots give you the tools to safely navigate at night but they don't help much when an engine fails or you experience a serious inflight emergency. I consider night cross country operations as a calculated risk that you have to be prepared to take. Be certain that your skills and equipment are up to it.
 
Just did..........

an hour of night flying tonight as part of my private pilot requirements. I was really hyped up for it. Although, I don't think I would want to do this all the time, it was easier than I thought it would be. Just have to tune in the ILS, watch the needles, watch the airspeed and not freak out. I could see the runway pretty good within thirty feet. Don't want to do it all the time, but at least I feel like I can. Six months ago, I was afraid to get in the airplane and start it. I have the best instructor, all credit should go to him.
 
I used to think nothing of night flying.

Then I read something by Richard Bach, where he said he would no longer fly a single engine at night. This shocked me at the time, since I believe him to be a decent pilot.

Keep in mind that many of the airline pilots who say they won't fly at night are most likely referring to single-engine night flying. Airliners have a spare engine that can get you down safely with proper training, technique, teamwork, wishful thinking and luck of the gods. With a single, you're landing in that dark corner of the world or in the middle of the Interstate.

Admittedly, night flying is very special and I've done more than my share of it. Like most risks in flying, each of us has to make that decision on our own, while fully cognizant of the consequences of misjudgment.
 
CNEJR said:
an hour of night flying tonight as part of my private pilot requirements. I was really hyped up for it. Although, I don't think I would want to do this all the time, it was easier than I thought it would be. Just have to tune in the ILS, watch the needles, watch the airspeed and not freak out. I could see the runway pretty good within thirty feet. Don't want to do it all the time, but at least I feel like I can. Six months ago, I was afraid to get in the airplane and start it. I have the best instructor, all credit should go to him.
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That's pretty good, but during your night cross country I would recommend going to an airport that does not have a VASI or ILS, and one preferably with a different length and width runway and different lighting arrangement.

My home airport's VASI was out for about 4-5 months and it makes you pay a lot more attention to what's going on. At night it's quite difficult to judge altitude by sight, but that's just my opinion.
 
single engine IFR is the same as flying at night IMHO. You can't see an open field or highway either way...
 
Dave C said:
To quote my father, an Air Force IP:

Single-engine at night!?
Without a parachute!?
In peacetime!?
You're #$@%ing nuts!!

I like this guys response.....

Many of my RV airline pilot friends have this same set of values.
My RV has night VFR lights but.. I do not plan flights after dark. I respect my friends that have more experience than me.
I have 4000 hours pic, and less than 100 night hours comerical multi engin land, insturment, bla ,bla, bla,. 2200 RV hours

You night single engin piston fliers do not have to look for me out after dark. ... Have fun!!! I know it is a pretty sight.
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Hey Jay....

...which lounge ya wanna meet at about dark thirty?:D

I ferried about 35 Cessna Agwagons from Wichita to Georgia, a lot of it at night and yes, it's beautiful, the engines were brand new and the skies clear.

However, I've also had mechanical failures at night and some serious time to re-think the issue.

Where's Jay, I'm buying the beers:)

Best,
 
It's all about risk management. I get a kick out of the airline guys who are so adamant about not flying single engine at night. I had a neighbor Delta captain who was that way. Real big talker about single engine risks while he was flying his multi-engine Boeing around. Now that he is retired, guess what? His single-engine Mooney seems to be OK for night flight! Go figure.

Anyway, one solution is to install a light in the engine compartment and wire it to the nav lights switch. Then the engine won't relaize it is night. :)

Vic
 
vic syracuse said:
It's all about risk management. I get a kick out of the airline guys who are so adamant about not flying single engine at night. I had a neighbor Delta captain who was that way. Real big talker about single engine risks while he was flying his multi-engine Boeing around. Now that he is retired, guess what? His single-engine Mooney seems to be OK for night flight! Go figure.

Anyway, one solution is to install a light in the engine compartment and wire it to the nav lights switch. Then the engine won't relaize it is night. :)

Vic
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Good luck.....:rolleyes:
 
There are many degrees of "night," just as there are many degrees of "daylight."

Under a moon on a clear night can be the most wonderful flight experience there is. Turbulence in IMC on a moonless night will get your blood pumping.

Life is all about choices.

:D
 
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