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New MGL XTreme EFIS is shipping !
- Thread starter Rainier Lamers
- Start date
Ok, thanks, it is a unique problem and so far only one manufacturer is willing/able to accommodate me.
If you can't reach the buttons, then you would probably have a difficult time reading the instrument............
Here are simple dimensions to make a template.........
Draw a 3 1/8" circle. From the center mark from your compass....
measure up................ 2 3/16 inches.
measure to the right.... 2 21/32 inches.
measure down.............1 23/32 inches.
and measure to the left 1 3/4 inches.
Now draw the box and cut out the 3 1/8" hole and go set it over existing gauges to see how it will fit.
Rainier Lamers
Well Known Member
Well, I have to agree with anothe post on the subject - if you can't reach the buttons the screen will really be too small anyway.
However, considering the low cost of the base unit, in this case why not give the backsseat driver his own screen ?
Keep in mind that if you are going to use any of the optional sensors (engine, AHRS, compass), these can be shared between the panels so there is no extra cost (if you can discount the cost of a few wires to join them up).
Rainier
CEO MGL Avionics
Canadian_JOY
Well Known Member
Thanks for your quick and thorough response, Rainier. I'm now going to have to contemplate how much panel re-design I'm willing to undertake in order to make an XTreme fit.
With respect to adding a simple panel layout diagram, thanks for feeding this info back to Franz - I'll look forward to an installation manual update some time in the future. GASMAN here has provided a good quick general guide for making a panel layout template. Something similar, included in the installation manual, would be terrific.
I wish you and MGL Avionics the best of success with this new product.
With respect to adding a simple panel layout diagram, thanks for feeding this info back to Franz - I'll look forward to an installation manual update some time in the future. GASMAN here has provided a good quick general guide for making a panel layout template. Something similar, included in the installation manual, would be terrific.
I wish you and MGL Avionics the best of success with this new product.
Thanks for trying to find me a solution. Actually I am the back seat driver and there is no panel in the back seat, the plane is a Christen Eagle and all of the instruments are in the front seat and I look over the shoulder of the front seat passenger. Reading the front seat instruments has not proven to be a problem, actually a little easier with aging eyes. One manufacturer of a bar graph engine monitor is willing to accommodate me with remote buttons so I will probably go that route.
thanks again
Bruce Green
Rainier Lamers
Well Known Member
Sorry, did not notice your post (but it just got pointed out to me).
OK, answer:
Yes, you can measure current...
No, you can't use existing shunt.
No more shunts. They are so history...
We have put a small little thingy into production (should be ready for shipping and the usual drumroll and announcements soon).
This clips onto your cable without making an electrical contact. Derives current from the strength of the magnetic field around the cable. Can be used to measure currents from less than 0.1 A to over 100A depending on how you install it.
Rainier
CEO MGL Avionics
OK, answer:
Yes, you can measure current...
No, you can't use existing shunt.
No more shunts. They are so history...
We have put a small little thingy into production (should be ready for shipping and the usual drumroll and announcements soon).
This clips onto your cable without making an electrical contact. Derives current from the strength of the magnetic field around the cable. Can be used to measure currents from less than 0.1 A to over 100A depending on how you install it.
Rainier
CEO MGL Avionics
MY FIRST HOUR WITH THE XTreme.............
My first flight with the basic unit..... meaning power, oat, pitot and static. I tested the ias with a digital manometer, it was right on throughout the entire scale.
During the test flight, (about 30 minutes before sun set) I set my flight path away from the setting sun so it would hit direct on the panel. I had no problem reading the XTreme.
The unit in it's basic form preformed well. The screen is a perfect size. And is easy to read. Flight with the GPS horizon indicator is amazing! And the standard rate turn indicator is right there also.
Out of the box, the horizon line was dead nuts in the center of the do-nut. And just flying along trying to fool this unit is a waste of time. It is right there with you! The slightest change from level and it shows on the horizon.
This is a great VFR tool.............. It is far better than nothing if outside went white.
As you can tell, I love my XTreme. For the money, there is nothing out there to compare this to. Plus, you can build it as you go, or your needs change.
One thing that I don't understand........ is why we didn't get GPS compass track in place of the compass option??? Maybe that will come in the first upgrade.
Great unit. Just what I was looking for. Easy to use without the manual. And the SD card really tops it off. It will record all flight and engine info every second for up to 5 hours.......... and then you just remove the SD card and take it home and stick it into your computer.. That's really neat....
So, when is the next upgrade?
My first flight with the basic unit..... meaning power, oat, pitot and static. I tested the ias with a digital manometer, it was right on throughout the entire scale.
During the test flight, (about 30 minutes before sun set) I set my flight path away from the setting sun so it would hit direct on the panel. I had no problem reading the XTreme.
The unit in it's basic form preformed well. The screen is a perfect size. And is easy to read. Flight with the GPS horizon indicator is amazing! And the standard rate turn indicator is right there also.
Out of the box, the horizon line was dead nuts in the center of the do-nut. And just flying along trying to fool this unit is a waste of time. It is right there with you! The slightest change from level and it shows on the horizon.
This is a great VFR tool.............. It is far better than nothing if outside went white.
As you can tell, I love my XTreme. For the money, there is nothing out there to compare this to. Plus, you can build it as you go, or your needs change.
One thing that I don't understand........ is why we didn't get GPS compass track in place of the compass option??? Maybe that will come in the first upgrade.
Great unit. Just what I was looking for. Easy to use without the manual. And the SD card really tops it off. It will record all flight and engine info every second for up to 5 hours..........
and then you just remove the SD card and take it home and stick it into your computer.. That's really neat....So, when is the next upgrade?
Rainier Lamers
Well Known Member
Hi Gasman,
glad you like your unit about as much as we like developing it.
If you have a look at our other EFIS systems and how these developed from humble beginnings you can be sure that the XTreme will have a long upgrade future. It just would not be MGL if this would not be so...
We are hard at work with the first major update which brings Navidata compatibility and all the GPS navigation goodies into the system (including Jeppesen Navdata compatibility).
Autopilot is next, then some form of moving map snd it looks like this is by no means the end, allready the ideas, requests (and demands) are rolling in.
Keep a beady eye on your unit - they are getting very precious. We don't have a chance in h... to produce enough to fill demand at the moment due to World wide component shortages (caused by the recession and closed chip production lines).
Rainier
CEO MGL Avionics
glad you like your unit about as much as we like developing it.
If you have a look at our other EFIS systems and how these developed from humble beginnings you can be sure that the XTreme will have a long upgrade future. It just would not be MGL if this would not be so...
We are hard at work with the first major update which brings Navidata compatibility and all the GPS navigation goodies into the system (including Jeppesen Navdata compatibility).
Autopilot is next, then some form of moving map snd it looks like this is by no means the end, allready the ideas, requests (and demands) are rolling in.
Keep a beady eye on your unit - they are getting very precious. We don't have a chance in h... to produce enough to fill demand at the moment due to World wide component shortages (caused by the recession and closed chip production lines).
Rainier
CEO MGL Avionics
My first flight with the basic unit..... meaning power, oat, pitot and static. I tested the ias with a digital manometer, it was right on throughout the entire scale.
During the test flight, (about 30 minutes before sun set) I set my flight path away from the setting sun so it would hit direct on the panel. I had no problem reading the XTreme.
The unit in it's basic form preformed well. The screen is a perfect size. And is easy to read. Flight with the GPS horizon indicator is amazing! And the standard rate turn indicator is right there also.
Out of the box, the horizon line was dead nuts in the center of the do-nut. And just flying along trying to fool this unit is a waste of time. It is right there with you! The slightest change from level and it shows on the horizon.
This is a great VFR tool.............. It is far better than nothing if outside went white.
As you can tell, I love my XTreme. For the money, there is nothing out there to compare this to. Plus, you can build it as you go, or your needs change.
One thing that I don't understand........ is why we didn't get GPS compass track in place of the compass option??? Maybe that will come in the first upgrade.
Great unit. Just what I was looking for. Easy to use without the manual. And the SD card really tops it off. It will record all flight and engine info every second for up to 5 hours..........
So, when is the next upgrade?
Ranier
If I can put my 2 cents in, as I would use the extreme as a backup attitude display, I would like it to have a page that is an HSI with heading bug, pointer to VOR or NDB (selectable) and if possible moving map in background with HSI superimposed.
I could leave it in HSI page for most of the time but have a quick select button to return it to attitude if I need to see the backup attitude in IFR.
This would make it ideal for us outside US who still need ADF/NDB for alternate nomination and thus have to stay current in NDB approaches.
John
If I can put my 2 cents in, as I would use the extreme as a backup attitude display, I would like it to have a page that is an HSI with heading bug, pointer to VOR or NDB (selectable) and if possible moving map in background with HSI superimposed.
I could leave it in HSI page for most of the time but have a quick select button to return it to attitude if I need to see the backup attitude in IFR.
This would make it ideal for us outside US who still need ADF/NDB for alternate nomination and thus have to stay current in NDB approaches.
John
Rainier Lamers
Well Known Member
Yes units are being delivered to Aircraft Spruce and to all of our other distributors but there are delays and effectively limited supplies. A distributor may order 100 units but he is likely to get only 20 in a resonable time with the remainder trickling in later as supply allows.
Our normal order lead times (for our other EFIS systems) from the factory tend to be around 2-3 months due to high demand and the XTreme is now a little worse than that. Oddly in case of the XTreme this has nothing to do with us or our production facilities but is due to difficult component supply.
We are finding ourselves in the bad situation where many critical components such as processors and memory chips have to be ordered as much as a year in advance - and even then there are no guarantees.
Can you imagine how difficult that is ? How do we know what we need in a years time ? We can only guess and have to guess on the low side - these things are expensive.
Sometimes we can get things faster - via buying houses that speculate with components much like a stock exchange. They buy when they are cheap and if they think there will be a shortage and then supply at inflated prices.
To quote a real example:
Our EFIS systems use an Atmel DataFlash chip as boot loader storage. It's a cheap everyday chip you would not even think twice about.
Normal price around one Dollar. Current price due to shortage: In the region of $150, if you can find them. Due to panic buying from manufacturers that use these chips (including us) the shelves are bare...
I suppose I should not complain about this - after all, this is one of the many facets of my job that makes life interesting...
Rainier
CEO MGL Avionics
Rainier Lamers
Well Known Member
Be assured,
we are watching every comment (like yours) and are combining this with our own ideas. We fly ourselves so we have a fair idea what we want from this unit.
It will never be as hugely comprehensive as our other EFIS systems due to limited resources in the system and relatively small screen size (that alone limits things), but the HSI (not yet released) looks very nice and is XTremely usable.
One of our goals for the XTreme is to keep it simple to setup and operate, up to this point I think we did a good job with that. We have to be careful not to make it too complicated.
Rainier
????
I dont know anything about this stuff---but it looks simple enough that even I could use it!!!!
Tom
I dont know anything about this stuff---but it looks simple enough that even I could use it!!!!
Tom
SUNLIGHT VISIBILITY ERROR!!........
During my evening flight today, I was turning and pushing the knob (love the way it works) and I pressed on screen brightness......... WOW!! it was only set on 50%.
YES, YOU CAN read this screen in direct sunlight.
My first flight with the basic unit..... meaning power, oat, pitot and static. I tested the ias with a digital manometer, it was right on throughout the entire scale.
During the test flight, (about 30 minutes before sun set) I set my flight path away from the setting sun so it would hit direct on the panel. I had no problem reading the XTreme.
The unit in it's basic form preformed well. The screen is a perfect size. And is easy to read. Flight with the GPS horizon indicator is amazing! And the standard rate turn indicator is right there also.
Out of the box, the horizon line was dead nuts in the center of the do-nut. And just flying along trying to fool this unit is a waste of time. It is right there with you! The slightest change from level and it shows on the horizon.
This is a great VFR tool.............. It is far better than nothing if outside went white.
As you can tell, I love my XTreme. For the money, there is nothing out there to compare this to. Plus, you can build it as you go, or your needs change.
One thing that I don't understand........ is why we didn't get GPS compass track in place of the compass option??? Maybe that will come in the first upgrade.
Great unit. Just what I was looking for. Easy to use without the manual. And the SD card really tops it off. It will record all flight and engine info every second for up to 5 hours..........
So, when is the next upgrade?
During my evening flight today, I was turning and pushing the knob (love the way it works) and I pressed on screen brightness......... WOW!! it was only set on 50%.
YES, YOU CAN read this screen in direct sunlight.
Last edited:
rpellicciotti
Active Member
The only thing keeping me from ordering one of these is the lack of a HSI display that works with my GNS430. Glad to hear one is in the works.
Alan Carroll
Well Known Member
Just curious, why VFR and not IFR? (my understanding is you can hook the Xtreme up to the same AHRS options as its larger cousins)
Rainier Lamers
Well Known Member
The XTreme can use its fancy GPS as sole source to guess your attitude. It's an "educated" guess. It's not really attitude even though it looks rather convincing (as reported). It's flightpath. It's kind of similar but different.
Nothing to do with IFR. IFR is good. It's IMC that we should be concerned about.
The XTreme can be connected to an external AHRS, no problem, even our high grade SP-5 with the British Aerospace designed gyros, but it can do without.
Use, don't use ? What gives ?
My personal opinion on this after having flown plenty hours behind it during the development is that is is very good and very useful. I would like this to complement a traditional AHRS. It has a very good advantage: It never drifts, you can't exceed rates, it does not care about sustained accelerated flight or any of the other things that can affect a traditional AHRS.
That means it is a worthy reference to check up on your AHRS. It's far better to have one of these and one AHRS than to have two AHRS (which one do you believe ?). Having one of each is great as each has its own strengths and they complement each other.
This is not really surprising - many of the top-notch AHRS systems use advanced GPS based estimation algorithms to assist in aiding the gyros.
We just perfected it a bit and dropped the gyros...
Rainier
CEO MGL Avionics
Finley Atherton
Well Known Member
Anyone care to contribute their user review for the Xtreme? I have ordered the Xtreme but I still find myself thinking about the Dynon D10A as a VFR, EFIS alternative.
Rainier, I have a couple of thoughts for future updates for the Xtreme.
I would like to see TAS calculated by compensating IAS with both height and temperature data (this is how Dynon does it) rather than just height. In the manual it explains that TAS calculation is inaccurate due to errors caused by airflow around the aircraft so there is little point trying to be too precise. I take the contrary view that if TAS calculation is so inaccurate then all steps should be taken (including temp data) to make it as accurate as possible. I presume any inaccuracy in the calculation of TAS will also affect the wind speed/direction calculation.
The Xtreme measures Glide Ratio as the ratio of vertical sink to airspeed. I would like an option where glide ratio can be displayed as the ratio of vertical sink to ground speed. This would allow the pilot to find the best IAS to maximise the glide after an engine failure when there is a significant headwind/tailwind.
Fin
9A
Rainier, I have a couple of thoughts for future updates for the Xtreme.
I would like to see TAS calculated by compensating IAS with both height and temperature data (this is how Dynon does it) rather than just height. In the manual it explains that TAS calculation is inaccurate due to errors caused by airflow around the aircraft so there is little point trying to be too precise. I take the contrary view that if TAS calculation is so inaccurate then all steps should be taken (including temp data) to make it as accurate as possible. I presume any inaccuracy in the calculation of TAS will also affect the wind speed/direction calculation.
The Xtreme measures Glide Ratio as the ratio of vertical sink to airspeed. I would like an option where glide ratio can be displayed as the ratio of vertical sink to ground speed. This would allow the pilot to find the best IAS to maximise the glide after an engine failure when there is a significant headwind/tailwind.
Fin
9A
Got Mine !
Hi Guys,
I finally got mine and will start installing it in my 4 very soon . I've been playing with it on the bench and it's quite nice . The screen is very readable and bright . the menu system and data input works quite well . It will be quite easy to use in flight Im sure .
Question...
My splash screen shows Firmware 1.05 . I can only find documentation up to the 1.02 revision . Where can I find the differences ?
Also, the link supplied for actual firmware revisions doesn't work.
Marc
Hi Guys,
I finally got mine and will start installing it in my 4 very soon . I've been playing with it on the bench and it's quite nice . The screen is very readable and bright . the menu system and data input works quite well . It will be quite easy to use in flight Im sure .
Question...
My splash screen shows Firmware 1.05 . I can only find documentation up to the 1.02 revision . Where can I find the differences ?
Also, the link supplied for actual firmware revisions doesn't work.
Marc
Rainier Lamers
Well Known Member
Differences are minor at this stage and contain mainly bug fixes and small changes to displayed items.
There is a major new release in the worx at the moment that should be available soon. This includes the GPS navigation (with waypoints, routes and all the usual stuff).
The manual will be updated at that point.
Rainier
Rainier Lamers
Well Known Member
We decided long ago with our EFIS systems to base TAS largely on the standard atmosphere model. If you want to be accurate you need to take both temperature and humidity into consideration. For the purpose of TAS (and considering other measurement error sources) we found that the results obtained where quite adequate for typical use with the added advantage that they worked even without additional sensors fitted.
Of course, our opinion may change, it often does...
The guy that is responsible for the XTreme is not me (surprise !).
It's in fact my nephew Franz who is running a quite major part of MGL now. He has not only designed the XTreme from scratch but is also responsible for all Velocity and Infinity Singles which he developed out of our old smart and maxi singles (which where my doing). The XTreme replaces a whole bunch of instruments that you probably do not know about as they have not been marketed in most of the World. These are the "UL", "Flight", "EXtreme", "E2" and the venerable "Ultra" as well (even though the "Ultra" is still available and selling).
Franz is monitoring this list so I'm sure he'll take your suggestions into consideration. I know he has to be careful what he includes and what he does not as the XTreme has an untimate limitation in a fixed code space, it's easy to blow this with too much clutter. We still need to squeeze in navigation (nearly done), the autopilot, some form of moving map and it looks like we need to support the VPX as well.
Rainier
CEO MGL Avionics
My first flight with the basic unit..... meaning power, oat, pitot and static. I tested the ias with a digital manometer, it was right on throughout the entire scale.
During the test flight, (about 30 minutes before sun set) I set my flight path away from the setting sun so it would hit direct on the panel. I had no problem reading the XTreme.
The unit in it's basic form preformed well. The screen is a perfect size. And is easy to read. Flight with the GPS horizon indicator is amazing! And the standard rate turn indicator is right there also.
Out of the box, the horizon line was dead nuts in the center of the do-nut. And just flying along trying to fool this unit is a waste of time. It is right there with you! The slightest change from level and it shows on the horizon.
This is a great VFR tool.............. It is far better than nothing if outside went white.
As you can tell, I love my XTreme. For the money, there is nothing out there to compare this to. Plus, you can build it as you go, or your needs change.
One thing that I don't understand........ is why we didn't get GPS compass track in place of the compass option??? Maybe that will come in the first upgrade.
Great unit. Just what I was looking for. Easy to use without the manual. And the SD card really tops it off. It will record all flight and engine info every second for up to 5 hours..........
So, when is the next upgrade?
Are there any other Xtreme users that can give us a report? This addition to my panel has sure been a rewarding one.
Xtreme with HSI
Is there an update on the HSI work you've been doing for the Xtreme?
Also wondering if you're still planning on releasing a lower cost second screen Xtreme (without pitot/static and GPS). One could display primary flight display on the main and HSI / engine instruments on the second. This would also allow for a low cost mirrored display of the primary screen in the back seat.
Thanks for the great products! Really looking forward to the SP-6, SP-7 and new RF products.
Is there an update on the HSI work you've been doing for the Xtreme?
Also wondering if you're still planning on releasing a lower cost second screen Xtreme (without pitot/static and GPS). One could display primary flight display on the main and HSI / engine instruments on the second. This would also allow for a low cost mirrored display of the primary screen in the back seat.
Thanks for the great products! Really looking forward to the SP-6, SP-7 and new RF products.
Rainier Lamers
Well Known Member
Yes, this has been completed.
It should be on our website now or very soon.
There have never been plans to make a "passive" panel. The price is so low there is little point - just get another one...
There is however an active development to turn this into an engine monitor - this of course does not need GPS and pressure sensors so that can be even cheaper.
SP-6 and SP-7 are being put together now (first batch for shipping) and second, larger batch is being shipped for manufacture within a week with another, even larger one following.
V6 VHF radio is a beaut. Really ! Should be shipping before Osh.
New project is a transponder and I'm pushing this one very hard. It's a big step for us (not so much technically but from a certification point of view). MGL is now working towards becomming a part 21 certified company with design and manufacturing approvals as this is required to produce a TSO'd product. It is my aim to be able to provide a panel mount class 1, level 2 transponder at well below $1000 in the same format as the V6 radio. I think we can do it. The preliminary design is effectively completed and we are casting actual prototyping hardware now.
Rainier
CEO MGL Avionics
It should be on our website now or very soon.
There have never been plans to make a "passive" panel. The price is so low there is little point - just get another one...
There is however an active development to turn this into an engine monitor - this of course does not need GPS and pressure sensors so that can be even cheaper.
SP-6 and SP-7 are being put together now (first batch for shipping) and second, larger batch is being shipped for manufacture within a week with another, even larger one following.
V6 VHF radio is a beaut. Really ! Should be shipping before Osh.
New project is a transponder and I'm pushing this one very hard. It's a big step for us (not so much technically but from a certification point of view). MGL is now working towards becomming a part 21 certified company with design and manufacturing approvals as this is required to produce a TSO'd product. It is my aim to be able to provide a panel mount class 1, level 2 transponder at well below $1000 in the same format as the V6 radio. I think we can do it. The preliminary design is effectively completed and we are casting actual prototyping hardware now.
Rainier
CEO MGL Avionics
That's great news about the HSI. Yes, the engine monitor (without GPS and pressure sensors) was the product I was referencing. Any idea what the time line will be? Will the engine monitor be able to communicate with a standard Xtreme?
Exciting that you have a new compass and AHRS module. Looking forward to your upcoming voting triple redundancy AHRS.
Wondering if you're planning on getting a TSO certification for the V6? Assuming your transponder will be able to be installed in certified aircraft as well?
Congratulations on your 10th anniversary!
Exciting that you have a new compass and AHRS module. Looking forward to your upcoming voting triple redundancy AHRS.
Wondering if you're planning on getting a TSO certification for the V6? Assuming your transponder will be able to be installed in certified aircraft as well?
Congratulations on your 10th anniversary!
Rainier Lamers
Well Known Member
No time line yet that I can be sure about.
No need to communicate between an XTreme and the engine monitor - both connect to the engine monitoring system independent.
Yes, it's getting to be fun...
Any TSO'd device can be installed in a TC aircraft provided an STC or field approval for that aircraft type exists.
TSO on its own is not enough to install into a TC aircraft.
Yes we are working on TSO for a number of products.
Thanks !
It's been an interesting time for me (and for the rest of the gang) but I think it is safe to say that we have hardly started. We have not yet grown up. We have much to do...
Rainier
CEO MGL Avionics
