What's new
Van's Air Force

Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.

N Number on rudder?

Draker

Draker

Well Known Member
FAR 45.25:

(a) The operator of a fixed-wing aircraft must display the required marks on either the vertical tail surfaces or the sides of the fuselage, except as provided in § 45.29(f).

(b) The marks required by paragraph (a) of this section must be displayed as follows:

(1) If displayed on the vertical tail surfaces, horizontally on both surfaces, horizontally on both surfaces of a single vertical tail or on the outer surfaces of a multivertical tail. However, on aircraft on which marks at least 3 inches high may be displayed in accordance with § 45.29(b)(1), the marks may be displayed vertically on the vertical tail surfaces.
Click to expand...

It seems like a safe assumption that the rudder counts as a "vertical tail surface". I ask because I've been looking at a lot of paint schemes for inspiration and I don't recall ever seeing an N number on a rudder! Many on the vertical stabilizer.
 
Nothing illegal about it but it can turn into a hassle for several reasons, mostly having to do with rudder balance if you or somebody else ever want to change the N number or have to replace the rudder due to wind damage or hangar rash.
 
Draker said:
FAR 45.25:



It seems like a safe assumption that the rudder counts as a "vertical tail surface". I ask because I've been looking at a lot of paint schemes for inspiration and I don't recall ever seeing an N number on a rudder! Many on the vertical stabilizer.
Click to expand...

Uhm...like this?

edit -- Gasp! A small rudder too :)
 

Attachments

  • ac1691957327001228805.jpg
    ac1691957327001228805.jpg
    168.7 KB · Views: 286
Last edited:
My opinion as a DAR is that it depends on where the registration # is located on the rudder.
I would be fine with all of the examples shown so far.

I am not fine with a couple of airplanes I have done prebuy inspections on.
The registration # was located at the very bottom of the rudder. It was blocked from view from the majority of the way around the circumference of the airplane.
 
Rudder numbers.........

rvbuilder2002 said:
My opinion as a DAR is that it depends on where the registration # is located on the rudder.
I would be fine with all of the examples shown so far. I am not fine with a couple of airplanes I have done prebuy inspections on.
The registration # was located at the very bottom of the rudder. It was blocked from view from the majority of the way around the circumference of the airplane.
Click to expand...

I have also seen numbers suspiciously lined up with the elevator. I assume this is to hide the number from prying eyes when it is flying!:rolleyes: When the numbers are on the SIDE of the airplane and BIG, when an airplane flies over the house, I know where to look and it's really difficult to read even those numbers from the ground when the airplane is flying over..:p
 
Roadjunkie1 said:
I assume this is to hide the number from prying eyes when it is flying!:rolleyes: When the numbers are on the SIDE of the airplane and BIG, when an airplane flies over the house, I know where to look and it's really difficult to read even those numbers from the ground when the airplane is flying over..:p
Click to expand...

I doubt anyone can make out my 3" N-numbers on the side of the fuselage when I'm flying over at 1000' or greater at 170 knots. :) Unless they have a really good pair of image-stabilized binoculars, I guess.

I now this an AC, and AC's are *advisory*, but it does say that the orientation should be horizontal. Doesn't say where on a tail it has to be put, though :)
 
RV7A Flyer said:
I doubt anyone can make out my 3" N-numbers on the side of the fuselage when I'm flying over at 1000' or greater at 170 knots. :) Unless they have a really good pair of image-stabilized binoculars, I guess.

I now this an AC, and AC's are *advisory*, but it does say that the orientation should be horizontal. Doesn't say where on a tail it has to be put, though :)
Click to expand...

But FAR 45 is regulatory and it gives a pretty good idea of what the intent is.
 
rvbuilder2002 said:
But FAR 45 is regulatory and it gives a pretty good idea of what the intent is.
Click to expand...

Does it? What intent do you glean from the "penumbra" or "emanations" of FAR 45?

ETA: Also looks like the authors of the AC didn't even bother to read the FAR, which clearly states:

...on aircraft on which marks at least 3 inches high may be displayed in accordance with § 45.29(b)(1), the marks may be displayed vertically on the vertical tail surfaces.
Click to expand...

45.25.(b)(1)

when they stated that the letters should be horizontal.
 
Last edited:
RV7A Flyer said:
Does it? What intent do you glean from the "penumbra" or "emanations" of FAR 45?
ETA: Also looks like the authors of the AC didn't even bother to read the FAR, which clearly states:
45.25.(b)(1)
when they stated that the letters should be horizontal.
Click to expand...

The interpretation we have been given by the Guys in Oklahoma City is that the letters/numbers may be "stacked" vertically but the letters themselves must be horizontal.

Example:

N
1
2
4
M
 
Last edited:
RV7A Flyer said:
Does it? What intent do you glean from the "penumbra" or "emanations" of FAR 45?

ETA: Also looks like the authors of the AC didn't even bother to read the FAR, which clearly states:



45.25.(b)(1)

when they stated that the letters should be horizontal.
Click to expand...

You are beginning so sound like many others who’s only goal is to try and push the limits in opposition of the FAR’s
The one thing not debatable is the readability intent. They should be viewable from a tower cab using binoculars when the aircraft is broadside to the tower.
 
rvbuilder2002 said:
You are beginning so sound like many others who’s only goal is to try and push the limits in opposition of the FAR’s
The one thing not debatable is the readability intent. They should be viewable from a tower cab using binoculars when the aircraft is broadside to the tower.
Click to expand...

Absolutely not. Quite the opposite. What I *am* opposed to is people in positions of authority creating NEW requirements beyond the FARs, all on their own.

That goes for the interpretation that the letters can be stacked (Mel's post), or that some locations are allowed but others aren't when the FAR says no such thing. Or having to have red fuel caps, or having to replace all the nylocks on an engine, or having to have a wet compass, or...

Personally, mine are 3" high on the side of the fuselage, in plain sight. :)
 
rvbuilder2002 said:
I am not fine with a couple of airplanes I have done prebuy inspections on.
The registration # was located at the very bottom of the rudder. It was blocked from view from the majority of the way around the circumference of the airplane.
Click to expand...

RV-6-N725ES-Photo1.jpg


RV-6-N450RS-Photo1.jpg


RV-8-N898W-Photo1.jpg


And so many more.
 
RV7A Flyer said:
Absolutely not. Quite the opposite. What I *am* opposed to is people in positions of authority creating NEW requirements beyond the FARs, all on their own.

That goes for the interpretation that the letters can be stacked (Mel's post), or that some locations are allowed but others aren't when the FAR says no such thing. Or having to have red fuel caps, or having to replace all the nylocks on an engine, or having to have a wet compass, or...

Personally, mine are 3" high on the side of the fuselage, in plain sight. :)
Click to expand...

I agree
There are FAA ASI’s and DAR’s that impose personal requirements that have no regulatory basis.
This particular subject is not one of those though.
 
Yep, Me too :D
Why do pics get flipped?
 

Attachments

  • IMG_1905.jpg
    IMG_1905.jpg
    303.3 KB · Views: 59
Last edited:
Walt said:
Yep, Me too :D
Why do pics get flipped?
Click to expand...

iPhone thing...EXIF encoding isn't "right" - so you need to rotate the image 360° on your desktop before posting...

Here --
 

Attachments

  • IMG_1905.jpg
    IMG_1905.jpg
    311 KB · Views: 54
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top