CharlieWaffles
Well Known Member
The arm is only needed for the quadrant. The arm allows you to use the full range in the quadrant. If you are using the Vernier controls, there isn't a race for the control to move in and look awkward - so no need.
The arm is only needed for the quadrant. The arm allows you to use the full range in the quadrant. If you are using the Vernier controls, there isn't a race for the control to move in and look awkward - so no need.
After It would be nice if the Hartzell governor purchased from Van's for an RV-10 came with the longer arm and was already clocked at the correct location. I suspect that the Van's tech support people are going to get a lot of calls.
Rob Hickman
N402RH RV-10
It was brought to their attention at least four years ago when they started shipping the Hartzell governors.
Like the alternator mount kit, this arm should be included in the FWF kit since you can't get airworthy without them.
After about 5 hours of work I actually got it installed and working with the standard arm. This is what I had to do to install it:
1. With the existing washer, lock washer and nut I found the case studs were too short. I ended up using only the lock washer and nut and the stud is flush with the top of the nut. I will order new longer studs from Lycoming and change them next time I change the oil.
2. After loosening the nut holding the standard arm and re clocking it to the correct orientation I found the rod end would interfere with the travel stops. The Hartzell instructions say that you can loosen the cap screws and only rotate it withing the slot. After a lot of frustration and a visit to CharlieWaffles RV-10 I ignored the instructions and removed all the cap screws and rotated that cap assembly about 100 degrees. With the stop assembly now located in the back (like the MT) I was able to get it to work without any interference.
3. I then had to do a lot of trimming on the baffle assembly so that it would mount around the larger governor.
4. I then had to do a lot of trimming on the upper cowl fiberglass to get it to fit around the new governor.
It would be nice if the Hartzell governor purchased from Van's for an RV-10 came with the longer arm and was already clocked at the correct location. I suspect that the Van's tech support people are going to get a lot of calls.
Rob Hickman
N402RH RV-10
Thanks Rob, I've posted that too. I found out about the catalog glitch from Hartzell tech support who expressed that for a while they have wished Van's would both correct the listings and list the exact Hartzell part number as well.
I have passed the message to Scott R and he said he would look into it.
I have just heard back from MT in Germany.
There is soon to be a new SB31 with expanded serial numbers to address the recent failures.
Although this will mean grounding my aircraft,cudos to MT for responding so quickly.
Letter below:
But we have another issue with the P-8XX-3 series , during operation a flyweight assembly could become loose.
In this case the damaged flyweight assembly will result in an overspeed or underspeed condition .
Shortly we will release the SB 31 because of that issues.
According this SB 31 your governor with the S/N 11G028G is affected .
This modification is free of charge.
If you have any more question , do not hesitate to contact me.
Best Regards
Andreas Seperant
Engineering / Tech Support
MT-Propeller Entwicklung GmbH
Airport Straubing-Wallmuehle
D-94348 Atting - GERMANY
phone: +49( 0 )9429-9409-44
fax: +49( 0 )9429 - 8432
www.mt-propeller.com
Thanks Rob, I've posted that too. I found out about the catalog glitch from Hartzell tech support who expressed that for a while they have wished Van's would both correct the listings and list the exact Hartzell part number as well.
I have passed the message to Scott R and he said he would look into it.
Scott, no disrespect to you or Van's, which I consider to be the cream of the crop, but I was told that the reason Van's originally sent the narrow deck versions to everybody and was telling them to just reclock them is that the prototype originally had a narrow deck engine. Maybe that is just urban legend. It doesn't really matter.
This avocation has a foundation of new stuff learned everyday. Nobody expects anyone to know everything.
Per MT website the max RPM for P-860-3 is 2420+/- 10. Engine spinning at 2700 with 0.895:1 ratio (narrow deck) will give this gov RPM.
Engine spinning 2700 RPM with gov ratio of 0.947:1 (wide deck) will have gov RPM of 2557 (range 2557+/-10).
If this is correct then using P860-3 on wide deck engine will result in over speed. Could this have resulted in the mechanical failures of governors not covered by previous SB?
Were the engines on which the failures occurred wide or narrow decks?
Just wondering. Might be completely off.
Johan
My engine was a Narrow Deck
Per MT website the max RPM for P-860-3 is 2420+/- 10. Engine spinning at 2700 with 0.895:1 ratio (narrow deck) will give this gov RPM.
Engine spinning 2700 RPM with gov ratio of 0.947:1 (wide deck) will have gov RPM of 2557 (range 2557+/-10).
If this is correct then using P860-3 on wide deck engine will result in over speed. Could this have resulted in the mechanical failures of governors not covered by previous SB?
Were the engines on which the failures occurred wide or narrow decks?
Just wondering. Might be completely off.
Johan
A 10 friend ordered his engine (new wide deck) and MT gov from Vans. First flight in May. The RPM was ~200 rpm low. 2500ish RPM. RPM should be checked on first flight, or before.
Max RPM should be checked before first flight like high speed taxing.
Mine was also a BPE narrow deck that states "built to D4A5 specs".
I chose low compression 8.5 cylinders over future fuel concerns. I wanted a cruise motor, not a race motor. Data plate states 260 hp.
I seem to recall an issue years ago where Van's was shipping "narrow deck" PG's to wide deck owners who were being told to simply change the clocking.
Bendix 1200's for me.
Nope--Slick retard breaker mag with Slickstart on the left, Slick plain on the right
I received this correspondence from MT this morning, FWIW:
Thank you very much for your message and information.
As fast as possible we will release SB31.
The reason for SB31 is that during operation a flyweight assembly could became loose
The damaged flyweight assembly will result in an overspeed or underspeed condition.
Affected are all governors which are manufactured between April 2010 until July 2013 and which are installed on experimental direct drive engines modified with electronic ignition and /or higher compression piston.
So your governor has the S/N 14G095-G (Manufacturing year 2014) is not affected from SB 31. You can go on with flying.
If you have any more question do not hesitate to contact me.
Best Regards
Andreas Seperant
Engineering / Tech Support
MT-Propeller Entwicklung GmbH
Airport Straubing-Wallmuehle
D-94348 Atting - GERMANY
phone: +49( 0 )9429-9409-44 <tel:%2B49%28%200%20%299429-9409-44>
fax: +49( 0 )9429 - 8432 <tel:%2B49%28%200%20%299429%20-%208432>
www.mt-propeller.com <http://www.mt-propeller.com>
Anyone care to venture why they mention electronic ignition and high compression. The failures here do not support the remark.
It's a head scratcher. Besides having only mags (as already noted), I have stock 8.5 low compression pistons.
I'm still curious as to how they are able to come out with an SB and a fix so fast being that outside of external pics they have not examined either Myron's nor my PG.
It's a head scratcher. Besides having only mags (as already noted), I have stock 8.5 low compression pistons.
I'm still curious as to how they are able to come out with an SB and a fix so fast being that outside of external pics they have not examined either Myron's nor my PG.
Perhaps you three are not the only failures.
Well, hopefully this information will get back to them before they actually publish the SB.
Unfortunately, I have to agree, Weasel. It's not making any sense to me right now, and hasn't for the last week. First, I think the data field for the failures is kind of low---yes, they might be from a close-timeframe batch, but there sure is a large time-in-operation spread between them. For piece of mind for me in the meantime I am changing the governor to a PCU5000X (I was going to use a Hartzell, but got the wrong one shipped from Van's last week). I currently have about 1100 hours on my P-860-3, and had it overhauled at 950 hours.
Something must have changed in the manufacturing process for the MT governors, and I hope we can find out soon.
BTW, the The P-880 governor someone mentioned in an earlier thread is for a counterweighted prop. The P-860-3 is the correct model for the RV-10.
Vic
This gets more confusinger by the day. I dug deep into my documents and there is a card (mostly in German), that says that the 860-3 is specified for 360
Series engines and 2500 RPM.
I've had supposed experts say that the ratio difference of WD and ND is a big huge ticking bomb deal and others say that it is very minor that all it does is slightly vary the speed of the pump and slightly change the distance throw of the arm to make a given change. .
My P-860-5 is going back to MT today to have the SB31 done on it.
I confirmed this week that the P-860-3 is the correct governor.
Vic
Steve,I'm just discovering this thread, kinda late, but I think I read through all the details.
I checked my paperwork, and my MT P-860-4 governor was manufactured in 2008 (thankfully outside the affected time period), and has been in service since September 2009 -- so, 7 years. It has 400 hrs on it.
From this thread, I just learned that there is a 72-month service interval in addition to the 2000 hr service interval. That surprised me. Can someone speculate or explain why there would be a 6-year service limit on a prop governor? I would think that calendar age would have no bearing at all on the service life, except perhaps for age-hardening of elastomeric seals.
If this service interval should be respected, I am a year overdue, and from what I have learned in this thread, it costs $800. It would seem a sensible choice to consider just buying a PCU-5000X instead.
Another alternative would be to ignore the calendar-based service interval and just operating the MT P-860-4.
I would love to hear supporting arguments for why a 6-yr service interval should be respected on a prop governor.
Thanks