Got Ramp Checked!

[az_gila]

Some comments...

This seems to conflict with Gil's posted document, Milt. I wonder which is correct?

The document I posted is their guideline and task description...

Also, once you hand them your license and they start to walk away with it, then what? You are effectively grounded unless you start an altercation or until an attorney gets it back for you.

Another "what to do in a ramp check" document I read mentioned "showing" your license, but not "giving it" to the inspector. Then it can't be construed as a surrendering of the document - however, this seems difficult in a real life situation...

......

azrv6 wrote" "Joe wrote : I was a little taken back when he asked to see the date for the weight and balance data, though. In retrospect, I guess I shouldn't have been, as 30 years ago I was taught that it must be current.

So, I'm curious why he would ask for the date for the weight and balance. Maybe that was just his way of asking to see the w&B. Or, unless there might be some future access to the aircraft logs and a determination made if the w&B was properly current at the time of the ramp check."

The W&B date is probably connected to the need for a current Equipment List in a certified plane. This list keeps track of changes that affect W&B, and while it's not explicitly on the aircraft required document list, in general it is called out by the planes POH, which is a required document.

A case came up locally were a Flight Examiner wanted an original Equipment List for a 50's C-170 before he would give a Private flight test....
He did back off eventually on the "original" bit...
.....

 

[Danny7]

Another "what to do in a ramp check" document I read mentioned "showing" your license, but not "giving it" to the inspector. Then it can't be construed as a surrendering of the document - however, this seems difficult in a real life situation...

......

.....

maybe do a trade? show me yours, i'll show you mine? I wonder how mad they'd get about that?

 

[MontanaMike]

Ramp Checks

Very interesting discussion. Seems to be a little confusion about what is actually happening here. This is how I see it. (From another retired cop/risk manager)

In my non-flying life, when I am contacted by a law enforcement officer and asked or ordered to do anything, there is a presumption that this representative of government has "legal standing" , usually "probable cause", to be interrupting my life. In my professional experience, the process required to have this standing reviewed is probably not worth the effort. It goes like this: "You can beat the rap, but you can't beat the ride." Lots of local and state agencies get sued for violating this principle.

If at any time during this event I learn, by asking, that I am not free to go, I have been arrested. You criminal trial lawyer pilots know exactly what I am talking about. If I am free to go but do not, I voluntarily waive my rights to search and seizure, as parolees commonly do as a condition of their release, and I have no protest.

As to the United States Government, my exercising the flying privilege appears to be a legitimate defacto waiver of my rights to not be seized and searched on the ramp without any specific probable cause. Fine by me.

I welcome a ramp check. It is another set of eyes on my aircraft, and maybe I will learn something. But I pay for the AOPA legal plan just in case.

How did I do, Paul?

Mike Bauer
RV6 N918MB
Swinging the Compass

 

[the_other_dougreeves]

9. NO LOSS OF LICENSE CUSTODY: The inspector has no right to
confiscate or retain your license. They only have a right to
"inspect." You need not give up your certificate.

Correct, and to that I would that if you surrender your certificate to the FAA, you might not get it back. Any surrender of your certificate is supposed to be accompanied by a written request, n.b. FAR 61.27(b), "Voluntary surrender or exchange of certificate", which reads:

"(b) Any request made under paragraph (a) of this section must include the following signed statement or its equivalent: "This request is made for my own reasons, with full knowledge that my (insert name of certificate or rating, as appropriate) may not be reissued to me unless I again pass the tests prescribed for its issuance."

So, comply with FAR 61.3(l) by presenting your certificate for inspection, but do not surrender your certificate.

(l) Inspection of certificate. Each person who holds an airman certificate, medical certificate, authorization, or license required by this part must present it and their photo identification as described in paragraph (a)(2) of this section for inspection upon a request from:

(1) The Administrator;

(2) An authorized representative of the National Transportation Safety Board;

(3) Any Federal, State, or local law enforcement officer; or

(4) An authorized representative of the Transportation Security Administration.

TODR

 

[JDRhodes]

Ramp Check Checklist

OK folks - Please check my work.

This is my "Ramp Check Checklist"

Pilot:
1) Airman Certificate ? available and ratings and limitations appropriate for the operation. Document must be genuine and legible.
2) Medical Certificate ? Available, current and the appropriate class.

Pilot logbooks ? if available, inspector may check for BFR, IPC, and PIC proficiency. Logbooks are not required to be in pilot possession while flying.
FCC Radio Station Operator?s License is no longer required for airmen, unless operating internationally.

Aircraft:
1) Airworthiness Certificate ? displayed in cabin and in view / legible to pax and crew.
2) Registration Certificate ? for specific aircraft and N-number and owner must be correct for the aircraft.
3) Radio Station License ? current and valid for the aircraft ? FAA does not enforce FCC licenses. If expired, the FAA will notify pilot of FCC requirements.
4) Airplane Flight Manual ? current (dated) and approved.
5) Aircraft Weight & Balance ? current (dated) and consistent with the actual equipment installed.
6) Operating Limitations ? current (dated) and approved.
7) Aeronautical Charts ? pertinent and current to the flight operations.
8) General Airworthiness ? consistent with a preflight inspection.
9) Seats and safety belts ? installed and in good condition.
10) VOR Equipment Check ? current, if equipped.
11) ELT ? installed and battery expiration is current
12) Aircraft Identification Plate ? installed on the exterior of aircraft.
13) Inoperative Equipment ? placarded ?inop?

Aircraft maintenance logbooks are not required to be carried in the aircraft.

 

[Bill Phillips]

FAA Guys Respond

This is a really big site and there has got to be some FAA inspector types reading this stuff. I agree that they are probably okay folks just doing their jobs and I support them. Hey FAA guys, jump in here and help us out. We want to repond correctly when you ramp check us. We want to have the correct papers and updated stuff. We are the "good guys" Assist us in being safe and correct. Several great questions have arrisen such as if I have a compass in my EFIS do I need another whiskey compass seperate with card to be correct? If I have my W & B info stored in my EFIS glass system do I also need a paper one? If I'm flying, taxing, whatever, a LSA and my medical has expired can I fly away? If I turn on my EFIS so the inspector can see my W & B does that give the inspector the open door to dig further into my airplane's computer? I don't have a seperate Hobbs meter, it's built into the EFIS. As for charts what if I'm flying local and using the moving map in my EFIS for nav, is when I had the chip updated last subject to inspection? Bet you folks can think of a bunch of up to date type questions for the FAA folks to pre answer. Best regards, Bill

 

[Brantel]

10 FAA guys are likely to give you 10 different answers to each of these questions....

This is a really big site and there has got to be some FAA inspector types reading this stuff. I agree that they are probably okay folks just doing their jobs and I support them. Hey FAA guys, jump in here and help us out. We want to repond correctly when you ramp check us. We want to have the correct papers and updated stuff. We are the "good guys" Assist us in being safe and correct. Several great questions have arrisen such as if I have a compass in my EFIS do I need another whiskey compass seperate with card to be correct? If I have my W & B info stored in my EFIS glass system do I also need a paper one? If I'm flying, taxing, whatever, a LSA and my medical has expired can I fly away? If I turn on my EFIS so the inspector can see my W & B does that give the inspector the open door to dig further into my airplane's computer? I don't have a seperate Hobbs meter, it's built into the EFIS. As for charts what if I'm flying local and using the moving map in my EFIS for nav, is when I had the chip updated last subject to inspection? Bet you folks can think of a bunch of up to date type questions for the FAA folks to pre answer. Best regards, Bill

 

[JDRhodes]

10 FAA guys are likely to give you 10 different answers to each of these questions....

The rules are written that way on purpose. To allow selective enforcement.

 

[erich weaver]

Not an FAA employee, but did just have their rep come to our EAA meeting, give a talk on various regs and answer lots of questions. To sum up a few things he covered:

On a standard, run of the mill ramp check, they are looking for you PP ticket, current medical, registration, airworthiness/operating limitations, and weight & balance info. A POH is not required for an experimental-amateur built (but is required for E-LSA I believe).

The only reg specifically requiring you to carry a current sectional is to have a Terminal Area Chart when flying through Class B airspace. There is an additonal catch-all reg (cant cite the # or exact language) requiring you to have reviewed all the appropriate information necessary for safe flight blah blah blah. This would typically only come into play AFTER you have just busted airspace and found to not have a current sectional/updated GPS database or did not check TFRs. Similarly, if you were just caught for flying into IMC and did not get a weather briefing etc etc you could be cited under this. With the possible exception of the TAC for Class B airspace, you wont be busted for not having a sectional for a flight in which there were no problems/incidents.

With respect to surrendering your license - just be reasonable and courteous. Just like being stopped by the CHP, there is an expectation that you will hand it to them so they can get the information before they hand it back. These guys are not looking to walk away and not return it. If you start off on the wrong foot, its gonna get longer and tougher, not easier.

regards

erich

 

[Jerry Cochran]

10 FAA guys are likely to give you 10 different answers to each of these questions....

For sure... Exactly like 10 doctors, 10 lawyers, 10 A&P's... Scary, ain't it?

What's a person to do?

Wing it, of course. NPI.

Dang good discussion though. I am currently working on my docs for the plane to be sure of compliance. W&B? New info for me.

 

[terrykohler]

Good Summary

Not an FAA employee, but did just have their rep come to our EAA meeting, give a talk on various regs and answer lots of questions. To sum up a few things he covered:

On a standard, run of the mill ramp check, they are looking for you PP ticket, current medical, registration, airworthiness/operating limitations, and weight & balance info. A POH is not required for an experimental-amateur built (but is required for E-LSA I believe).

The only reg specifically requiring you to carry a current sectional is to have a Terminal Area Chart when flying through Class B airspace. There is an additonal catch-all reg (cant cite the # or exact language) requiring you to have reviewed all the appropriate information necessary for safe flight blah blah blah. This would typically only come into play AFTER you have just busted airspace and found to not have a current sectional/updated GPS database or did not check TFRs. Similarly, if you were just caught for flying into IMC and did not get a weather briefing etc etc you could be cited under this. With the possible exception of the TAC for Class B airspace, you wont be busted for not having a sectional for a flight in which there were no problems/incidents.

With respect to surrendering your license - just be reasonable and courteous. Just like being stopped by the CHP, there is an expectation that you will hand it to them so they can get the information before they hand it back. These guys are not looking to walk away and not return it. If you start off on the wrong foot, its gonna get longer and tougher, not easier.

regards

erich

Erich:
Well Done! On my airworthiness cert the ops limits and W&B are listed - no need for additional documentation. Also, IIRC there is no need for a radio station license (FCC 605?), but a restricted operator's license is generally required if flying outside of the U.S. However, it is not something that the FAA would require during a ramp check.
Terry, CFI
RV-9A N323TP

 

[Maxrate]

I went online and updated all my Airman Certificates and new ones are on the way. (2 weeks). So, thanks for the link.

I did get ramped checked at Whiteman Airport (next to Burbank) after I taxied a converted DC-3 to the gas pump. (no flight intended and I did not have a Type Rating in this aircraft) No paperwork was in the aircraft but after I showed the FAA man my A and P Certificate and explained I was just getting fuel and we intended to change out the left engine and rework several systems over a 4 month period at a maintenance hanger up field, he backed off. I mentioned that this DC-3 was formerly owned by actor Cary Grant and had a piano inside, he asked for a tour. Nice guy.

Bob

Bob, Glad I could help...

 

[Jamie]

On a related note, is there any requirement that someone taxiing an airplane have any sort of qualification? Airman's or A&P certificate, for example? As far as I know there isn't.

 

[airguy]

You're technically operating an aircraft at that point - in flight or not, I would be surprised if that doesn't require a pilots license.

 

[terrykohler]

Not Always

On a related note, is there any requirement that someone taxiing an airplane have any sort of qualification? Airman's or A&P certificate, for example? As far as I know there isn't.

For part 135, the operation manual must show who is approved. I know of no requirement under part 91-even at a towered airport. Also, there is no requirement to have a pilot or experienced operator at the controls when you're hand propping. And some guys think we have too many regulations.
Terry, CFI
RV-9A N323TP

 

[Low Pass]

......And some guys think we have too many regulations.
Terry, CFI
RV-9A N323TP

So you're saying we need more regulation?? If so, what makes you believe this? Have there been a rash of ramp accidents from taxiing part 91 ops or hand propping lately?

Personally, I kind of like the old America where people were expected to think so they didn't do stupid things.

 

[the_other_dougreeves]

Pilot:
1) Airman Certificate ? available and ratings and limitations appropriate for the operation. Document must be genuine and legible.
2) Medical Certificate ? Available, current and the appropriate class.

Pilot logbooks ? if available, inspector may check for BFR, IPC, and PIC proficiency. Logbooks are not required to be in pilot possession while flying.
FCC Radio Station Operator?s License is no longer required for airmen, unless operating internationally.

Aircraft:
1) Airworthiness Certificate ? displayed in cabin and in view / legible to pax and crew.
2) Registration Certificate ? for specific aircraft and N-number and owner must be correct for the aircraft.
3) Radio Station License ? current and valid for the aircraft ? FAA does not enforce FCC licenses. If expired, the FAA will notify pilot of FCC requirements.
4) Airplane Flight Manual ? current (dated) and approved.
5) Aircraft Weight & Balance ? current (dated) and consistent with the actual equipment installed.
6) Operating Limitations ? current (dated) and approved.
7) Aeronautical Charts ? pertinent and current to the flight operations.
8) General Airworthiness ? consistent with a preflight inspection.
9) Seats and safety belts ? installed and in good condition.
10) VOR Equipment Check ? current, if equipped.
11) ELT ? installed and battery expiration is current
12) Aircraft Identification Plate ? installed on the exterior of aircraft.
13) Inoperative Equipment ? placarded ?inop?

Aircraft maintenance logbooks are not required to be carried in the aircraft.

Some SP / LSA specific recommendations:

Pilot #2 - Medical is not required if the particular type of operation does not require it, e.g., PIC is exercising SP privileges if the PIC chooses to use the DL option, in which case, they need to have their DL and comply with all medical restrictions. Glider operations do not require a medical or DL.
Pilot #3 (new) - Photo ID
Pilot #4 (new) - Logbooks with appropriate endorsements (e.g., Class B/C/D airspace) if PIC is exercising SP privileges.

Aircraft #4 - POH may not be required for certain LSA; check OpLims.
Aircraft #12 - Aircraft ID plate can be internal to the aircraft for certain aircraft (mine is on the firewall).

TODR

 

[terrykohler]

So you're saying we need more regulation?? If so, what makes you believe this? Have there been a rash of ramp accidents from taxiing part 91 ops or hand propping lately?

Personally, I kind of like the old America where people were expected to think so they didn't do stupid things.

No.
NA (see #1)
Don't know
Me too. What do we do with the non-thinkers who do stupid things?
Terry, CFI
RV-9A N323TP

 

[Top_prop]

Curious...would a weight and balance in the Garmin 496 count?
-Jim

I've seen it done in military aircraft... but can't speak for it being 'legal' in FAA terms.

 

[LifeofReiley]

I had a friend ramp checked in Midland, TX yesterday flying a King Air 90. And no it was not the FAA... but Homeland Security. Came in in a Citation Jet, walked right over to the plane for a look see. The Pilot (She) handled the situation well for what I would call a random inspection. If the truth were known, they probably heard this nice looking young female on the radio and wanted a closer look... see...

 

[Bevan]

[QUOTE Me too. What do we do with the non-thinkers who do stupid things? QUOTE]

Learn from them and then bury them.

Bevan

 

[Sam Buchanan]

Another "what to do in a ramp check" document I read mentioned "showing" your license, but not "giving it" to the inspector. Then it can't be construed as a surrendering of the document - however, this seems difficult in a real life situation...

When the FAA inspector asked to see my license during the one ramp check I've seen, I pulled the plastic card out of my wallet and courteously held it in my hand while he copied the info onto his yellow pad.

I did not hand him the license.

He seemed a little amused, said "I would have given it back to you". I replied "I'm confident you would have".

But.......I won't hand my license to anyone but a law enforcement official as I'm being arrested........

 

[the_other_dougreeves]

When the FAA inspector asked to see my license during the one ramp check I've seen, I pulled the plastic card out of my wallet and courteously held it in my hand while he copied the info onto his yellow pad.

I did not hand him the license.

He seemed a little amused, said "I would have given it back to you". I replied "I'm confident you would have".

I agree. Make it available for inspection, but do not surrender your certificate. There is no guarantee you'll get it back any time soon (e.g., Bob Hoover).

TODR

 

[DakotaHawk]

No Radio Station License required except...

This is a direct "cut and paste" from the FCC Aircraft radiostation website. FCC Form 605 Schedule C http://www.fcc.gov/Forms/Form605/605c.pdf

Enter ?Y? or ?N? if you will be making international flights or communicating with foreign stations. If ?Y?, complete the form. If ?N?, you are
not required to obtain a license ? you do not need to file this form with the FCC.

My little pea-brain isn't so smart, but I think that means that a Radiostation License is NOT REQUIRED unless you're going to Canada, Mexico, Bahamas, or Washington, DC.

 

[vjdslk]

We're having a similar discussion on the Cozy builder's group

This is my "Ramp Check Checklist"

Aircraft:
1) Airworthiness Certificate ? displayed in cabin and in view / legible to pax and crew.
2) Registration Certificate ? for specific aircraft and N-number and owner must be correct for the aircraft.
3) Radio Station License ? current and valid for the aircraft ? FAA does not enforce FCC licenses. If expired, the FAA will notify pilot of FCC requirements.
4) Airplane Flight Manual ? current (dated) and approved.
5) Aircraft Weight & Balance ? current (dated) and consistent with the actual equipment installed.
6) Operating Limitations ? current (dated) and approved.
7) Aeronautical Charts ? pertinent and current to the flight operations.
8) General Airworthiness ? consistent with a preflight inspection.
9) Seats and safety belts ? installed and in good condition.
10) VOR Equipment Check ? current, if equipped.
11) ELT ? installed and battery expiration is current
12) Aircraft Identification Plate ? installed on the exterior of aircraft.
13) Inoperative Equipment ? placarded ?inop?

Aircraft maintenance logbooks are not required to be carried in the aircraft.

One poster stated, "I checked the FAR's, since the "ARROW" mnemonic
seems to indicate that you need W&B paperwork in the plane. But the
only two FAR's I could find that addressed this issue were 91.203 and
91.103. 91.203 addresses the Airworthiness and Registration paperwork
(as well as a few other things), but neither one SPECIFICALLY states
that you need ANY W&B paperwork in the plane - 91.103 only says that you
have to know your takeoff distances, which IMPLIES that you've DONE a
W&B, but says nothing about having paperwork.

See: http://www.askacfi.com/tag/faa


under: Where is the source for the "W" in A.R.R.O.W?


This page also states that the IMPLICATION is that you need the W&B paperwork in the plane, but that's not my interpretation of any of the regs."

Great discussion and lots of conjecture, anecdotes and such, but I would like to see someone quote the section in the FAR's that states you need a W&B.

FWIW I do carry a W&B because I know the guy doing the ramp check will undoubtly "believe" you need to have it.

J. Dembs

 

[Alan Carroll]

OK folks - Please check my work.

This is my "Ramp Check Checklist"

Pilot:
1) Airman Certificate ? available and ratings and limitations appropriate for the operation. Document must be genuine and legible.
2) Medical Certificate ? Available, current and the appropriate class.

Pilot logbooks ? if available, inspector may check for BFR, IPC, and PIC proficiency. Logbooks are not required to be in pilot possession while flying.
FCC Radio Station Operator?s License is no longer required for airmen, unless operating internationally.

Aircraft:
1) Airworthiness Certificate ? displayed in cabin and in view / legible to pax and crew.
2) Registration Certificate ? for specific aircraft and N-number and owner must be correct for the aircraft.
3) Radio Station License ? current and valid for the aircraft ? FAA does not enforce FCC licenses. If expired, the FAA will notify pilot of FCC requirements.
4) Airplane Flight Manual ? current (dated) and approved.
5) Aircraft Weight & Balance ? current (dated) and consistent with the actual equipment installed.
6) Operating Limitations ? current (dated) and approved.
7) Aeronautical Charts ? pertinent and current to the flight operations.
8) General Airworthiness ? consistent with a preflight inspection.
9) Seats and safety belts ? installed and in good condition.
10) VOR Equipment Check ? current, if equipped.
11) ELT ? installed and battery expiration is current
12) Aircraft Identification Plate ? installed on the exterior of aircraft.
13) Inoperative Equipment ? placarded ?inop?

Aircraft maintenance logbooks are not required to be carried in the aircraft.

This has been a very useful discussion, and I like the idea of having a checklist to make sure the required paperwork is on board. From some of the earlier comments it seems the ramp check is not meant to include a full aircraft inspection however, which leads me to believe that the above list is longer than necessary. Assuming that the aircraft and pilot logs aren't carried aboard and no foreign travel is involved, is it safe to assume the "short list" looks like this?:

Pilot cert.
Medical
Airworthiness cert.
Registration
Operating limitations
Weight and balance

 

[DeltaRomeo]

snip.... is it safe to assume the "short list" looks like this?:

Pilot cert.
Medical
Airworthiness cert.
Registration
Operating limitations
Weight and balance

And if this list is OK, throwing the first letters into an anagram generator comes up with:

- WARM OP

and

- RAMP WO

Use the memory aid of your choice. I'm going with 'Ramp Ow'.

 

[Caveman]

Photo I.D.

And if this list is OK, throwing the first letters into an anagram generator comes up with:

- WARM OP

and

- RAMP OW

Use the memory aid of your choice. I'm going with 'Ramp Ow'.

I'd add your driver's LICENSE to meet the photo I.D. requirement.
Make it RAMP LOW? That doesn't sound near as cool though.

 

[jnorris]

Here's EAA's take regarding Weight and Balance documentation in the "ARROW" mnemonic:

Weight and Balance: When the weight and balance data is included in an FAA approved flight manual or pilot operating handbook (POH), then the requirement to carry it in the aircraft is included in the above requirements of 14 CFR 91.9. For aircraft that do not have an FAA approved flight manual or POH, the requirement for carrying weight and balance documentation on the aircraft is found in the aircraft's TC itself.

There may be some instances, primarily with older vintage aircraft, where there is neither an approved flight manual or POH, and also no TC requirement for carrying current weight and balance data on the aircraft. In these cases, you would not be directly required by certification or regulation to carry weight and balance info. However, the pilot in command (PIC) is required by 14 CFR Part 91.103 to become familiar, before each flight, with all information relating to the flight. It can be argued that, without current weight and balance info on board it is impossible for the PIC to meet the requirements of 91.103. The EAA therefore recommends that current weight and balance info should always be carried aboard the aircraft.


The "ARROW" requirements vary somewhat for non-TC aircraft, such as those certificated as experimental/amateur-built (homebuilts).. On of the main differences is in regard to operating limitations. Experimental aircraft are issued a set of operating limitations, which define the parameters within which the aircraft must be operated. These operating limitations are issued as a part of the airworthiness certificate, and as such they must be carried in the aircraft under the requirements of Part 91.203 (the "A" in ARROW, rather than the "O"). However, the operating limitations document will in turn require that the aircraft carry placards and markings as required by Part 91.9 (the "O" in ARROW).

On the issue of weight and balance, the same situation applies to experimental aircraft as has previously been discussed regarding older TC aircraft. There is no FAA approved flight manual or POH for experimental aircraft, nor is there a TC, so there is no regulatory requirement for carrying weight and balance info in the aircraft. However, the pilot must comply with 91.103, so the EAA recommends that current weight and balance info always be carried in the aircraft.

 

[pierre smith]

Joe....

....sent you a PM,

Best,

 

[David-aviator]

I agree. Make it available for inspection, but do not surrender your certificate. There is no guarantee you'll get it back any time soon (e.g., Bob Hoover).

TODR

Truth is, the FAA has a procedure to cause one to lose his flying license and if the procedure is not followed, they do not know what to do with it. The process involves an official notification of an investigation and all that follows after that.

Years ago, I had a friend who was interviewed over a traffic pattern incident where he cut off from base leg a much slower airplane on final approach. At the time he was flying night freight and had about had all the aviating he wanted and about decided to quit altogether any how so he whipped out his ATR, through it on the inspectors desk and walked out of the interview.

About a week later we were talking about the incident and he was having second thoughts about quitting flying and I said that was kind of a dumb thing to do - throwing the certificate on his desk and walking out. I also said I bet the inspector does not know what to do with the certificat and that if you send a letter to OK City saying the thing was lost, which it was, they will send you another one. Sure enough, they did.

I don't think a ramp inspector wants our license other than copying stuff off of it. There is no way he is going to deliberately keep it. I surrendered mine to a County Sheriff once standing next to a wrecked airplane, he gave it right back.

The best thing about this thread is it is a reminded to make sure all the airplane paper in order and on board. I have never been checked so it will be done pronto before the next flight. The only feds I know are very nice guys but I am sure that does not get one off the hook for not complying with the regs.

 

[John Clark]

Attitude

Truth is, the FAA has a procedure to cause one to lose his flying license and if the procedure is not followed, they do not know what to do with it. The process involves an official notification of an investigation and all that follows after that.

The "don't give it to an inspector" thing is an old wive's tale. As David noted, a certificate action is an involved process. I have handed my certificate and medical to many inspectors while flying 135/121 operations. They look at it, write the number on their form, and hand it back. A big part of this process is attitude, if the inspector gets the feeling that you are hiding something they will dig harder. Cooperation makes it simpler and faster for everyone. If you have done something really stupid, you will get your ticket back at the time, just expect a registered letter in the mail "requesting" that you surrender your certificate.

John Clark ATP, CFI
FAA FAAST Team Member
EAA Flight Advisor
RV8 N18U "Sunshine"
KSBA