Getting close to ending flying

[steveciha]

So I am getting up there in years. Been flying RV since I built the first 6A in Cedar Rapids back in 1997. It was one of the first 1000 Rv built. Now, flying a 7A that I built in 2003. I predate this forum, and remember when Matronics hosted the RV community. I have not posted in this forum in many a year, Doug can look it up I suppose. As I age, I fly less. And am less comfortable with it as I get older. I did well with the last BFR, and am signed off for another two years. But I can see the day approaching that it will make sense to sell the 7A, and perhaps rent an old 150 if I really get the urge to fly. Probably end of summer, as I do still enjoy flying the Young Eagles.

So what and how has the Chapter 11 event impacted RV value? I am so divorced right now from RV world that I am ignorant on this, and only learned of it perhaps a couple months ago, quite by accident. I sold the 6A at Oshkosh (total Vans airframe kit price was 12,000) in 2001 in two days. I am not sure I want to be the marketer this time? Has anyone used a broker that they would recommend?

 

[grumman41]

Some will say sorry that your ending your flying career but only you know what is correct and in your best interest and safety. There isn’t much “marketing“ required For a well built and maintained RV so I’m sure being a builder you can easily handle this task. If you were in my area I’d share some breakfast trips to get you back into the air!

 

[dcat127]

So what and how has the Chapter 11 event impacted RV value? I am so divorced right now from RV world that I am ignorant on this, and only learned of it perhaps a couple months ago, quite by accident.

I'm the exact opposite from you, I would like to purchase an RV... Preferably a 10. I have been monitoring the prices for several years. I don't believe that the Chapter 11 has had any significant impact on the prices. Values on RV's seems to continue increasing. Of course if people believed that Vans was going to stop existing in the future it would probably hurt the values of flying planes.

 

[Amadeus]

I'm the exact opposite from you, I would like to purchase an RV... Preferably a 10. I have been monitoring the prices for several years. I don't believe that the Chapter 11 has had any significant impact on the prices. Values on RV's seems to continue increasing. Of course if people believed that Vans was going to stop existing in the future it would probably hurt the values of flying planes.

While all aircraft, including RV's, continue increasing I disagree that RV values would suffer if Van's ceased operation. The RV lineup are all proven designs and outperform all the other aircraft within each model's competitor group. Just because the parent company could cease existence in the future does not change this. The support community (such as this forum) will continue.

 

[Pilot135pd]

I'm sad about your not flying but glad you decided to do it before it was too late. Sadly we have a 13,000+ hour pilot here who a few days ago for no apparent reason landed on the side of my runway in the recently tillered soft and cushy sand, instead of on the nice grass runway, and flipped his C-182 over. He had just landed on the runway here 2 hours ago, we talked about the runway and the rest of the airport, and he took off from the runway only to return to land 20 minutes later and have this accident. He wasn't hurt, except his ego, but it might be time to have that discussion too. You can see where my truck is parked on the nicely cut grass runway.

 

[jrs14855]

Hours don't mean much. What kind of hours?? The Ag pilot or the low level pipeline patrol pilot are VERY different from the long distance airline pilot.

 

[Pilot135pd]

Hours don't mean much. What kind of hours?? The Ag pilot or the low level pipeline patrol pilot are VERY different from the long distance airline pilot.

He was shot down in Vietnam a few times so I think he has good flying experience.

 

[steveciha]

Some will say sorry that your ending your flying career but only you know what is correct and in your best interest and safety. There isn’t much “marketing“ required For a well built and maintained RV so I’m sure being a builder you can easily handle this task. If you were in my area I’d share some breakfast trips to get you back into the air!

Correct. Although I am not incompetent, I am headed there, and so is every other pilot. Knowing WHEN is the issue,for all of us. Thanks for the offer! I still fly. In good ole days it was at minimum every two weeks. Now, sometimes 6-8 weeks, winter is not fun in Iowa. But the passion is going away at an ever increasing rate.

 

[steveciha]

I'm sad about your not flying but glad you decided to do it before it was too late. Sadly we have a 13,000+ hour pilot here who a few days ago for no apparent reason landed on the side of my runway in the recently tillered soft and cushy sand, instead of on the nice grass runway, and flipped his C-182 over. He had just landed on the runway here 2 hours ago, we talked about the runway and the rest of the airport, and he took off from the runway only to return to land 20 minutes later and have this accident. He wasn't hurt, except his ego, but it might be time to have that discussion too. You can see where my truck is parked on the nicely cut grass runway.

That is sad to see.

 

[steveciha]

I'm the exact opposite from you, I would like to purchase an RV... Preferably a 10. I have been monitoring the prices for several years. I don't believe that the Chapter 11 has had any significant impact on the prices. Values on RV's seems to continue increasing. Of course if people believed that Vans was going to stop existing in the future it would probably hurt the values of flying planes.

I was you, 40 years ago. Enjoy the journey my friend.

 

[Pilot135pd]

So I am getting up there in years. Been flying RV since I built the first 6A in Cedar Rapids back in 1997. It was one of the first 1000 Rv built. Now, flying a 7A that I built in 2003. I predate this forum, and remember when Matronics hosted the RV community. I have not posted in this forum in many a year, Doug can look it up I suppose. As I age, I fly less. And am less comfortable with it as I get older. I did well with the last BFR, and am signed off for another two years. But I can see the day approaching that it will make sense to sell the 7A, and perhaps rent an old 150 if I really get the urge to fly. Probably end of summer, as I do still enjoy flying the Young Eagles.

So what and how has the Chapter 11 event impacted RV value? I am so divorced right now from RV world that I am ignorant on this, and only learned of it perhaps a couple months ago, quite by accident. I sold the 6A at Oshkosh (total Vans airframe kit price was 12,000) in 2001 in two days. I am not sure I want to be the marketer this time? Has anyone used a broker that they would recommend?

Pilots are always telling me "If I were like you retired and own a plane on your own airport, I'd be flying every day !" but to me it's not as much fun flying alone all the time. I enjoy more flying with others who enjoy it too specially people who've never flown in a small plane before. Now if you ever come down to my neck of the woods, we'll go for a flight, just because.

 

[T6pilot]

Listen to your instincts. It's difficult to let go of the aviation passion... Found a perfect buyer. for my RV 6, on this forum last year and it was such a relief to safely retire from 55 years of flying. Good luck.

 

[Floog]

All due respect, but if you don't trust yourself, should you be thinking about flying Young Eagles around?

 

[RV6_flyer]

I feel like I am approaching the same point about when to stop flying. I would like to say that I few 50-years before I give it up. I have eight more years to go.

I think about the two things all pilots fear most. Getting in an airplane knowing it is their last flight and getting in an airplane not knowing it is their last flight. I fear the 2nd the most.

 

[bmellis11]

Just a thought for those that think they may be near the time they have to hang up their wings. Maybe you could reach out to some local CFIs that need to build time and are willing to fly with you for free or low cost. You would be gaining company and a safety pilot, and they would be gaining flight hours and a mentor. That's what I plan to do in a few decades at least.

 

[9Abuilder]

You are a wise man to know when to say when. Most pilots know when to stop, but some let their egos over-rule their common sense. I recently retired from flying at age 75. Looking back, I probably would have been safe for another year or two. But why chance fate. I’m sometimes reminded of the phrase “The older I get, the better I was.” Find a new hobby to occupy your time. Be happy in the notion that you were one of the privileged few to fly your own airplane and see the world below as many never will.
Best of luck in the future.

 

[robertahegy]

Some of us just drift away from flying. After many years of flying with many flying goals achieved, other interests came to the forefront and brought new challenges. In retrospect, I think I enjoyed building more than flying. After getting my pilot's license, I became more mission oriented. Once my missions were fulfilled, I started flying less and drifting to those new challenges and interests. There is life to be enjoyed after flying and aircraft ownership. Flying is a serious commitment and something not to be taken lightly. I spend time building woody boats, RC Aircraft, golf, flying low in my Porsche, and playing my guitars. Those things keep me busy, happy, and satisfied. And don't require the large commitment flying did. I quit flying in 2008 and sold the RV-7A that I built. Do I miss the plane and flying? Yes, sometimes. But I know it was the right time for me to give them up. If you feel that flying is drifting away, don't feel badly. Look to the new . You'll live, trust me. And I still love airplanes and live in our airpark.

 

[Capt]

I used to be heavily involved in toy planes over 50 years ago, RC, but got more and more interested in 1:1 scale, made a career out of it so apart from some odd casual driving of corporate jets and my own fleet of light A/C I’m not too far off staying grounded and getting back to the toy plane Hobby….one day, soon I expect! We each face a last flight, just make sure it was YOUR decision to land that last flight

 

[steveciha]

Listen to your instincts. It's difficult to let go of the aviation passion... Found a perfect buyer. for my RV 6, on this forum last year and it was such a relief to safely retire from 55 years of flying. Good luck.

T6 thanks. Well said

 

[WWhunter]

I totally understand the forward thinking Steve! Good for you to realize it's getting time. I'm not quite there yet, but definitely seeing it it the not to distant future. I flew atrike for many years, got into the TW bush plane types, since I live in the north woods of MN. Lately have been thinking of getting something to go faster and farther, thinking I want another TW of the RV type. However a recent trip to visit my son in Oregon had me realizing that I may be slowing down a bit so will probably be leaning towards a tricycle gear plane for my last few years of flying. When you get ready to sell, give me a jingle. I might be interested. Heck, you're just south of me, easier trip than most I see listed on opposite side of the country. If you ever fly up near Park Rapids or Bemidji, MN let me know.

Good luck in your retirement and hopefully you'll get involved in another hobby that fulfills your time.

 

[ronrapp]

Just a thought for those that think they may be near the time they have to hang up their wings. Maybe you could reach out to some local CFIs that need to build time and are willing to fly with you for free or low cost. You would be gaining company and a safety pilot, and they would be gaining flight hours and a mentor. That's what I plan to do in a few decades at least.

This.

The passion for *flying* may wane, but I'd be willing to bet the passion for good people and for helping others will long outlast it. That's why I teach and mentor others. It's not just an avenue for giving back to an industry and avocation that has provided so much, but it helps keep the fire lit. Even for the younger among us, aviating for a living can suck the joy out of it if you're not careful.

As one sage observer said about aviation: come for the airplanes, stay for the people.

--Ron

 

[StuBob]

I’ll comment on the question of brokers. If you sell an airplane yourself, you write and post ads and have to deal with the tire kickers, escrow, prebuy, test flight and closing. If you drop it off at a dealer, they do all of that in return for roughly 7% of what they sold it for, which might be more than you could sell it for. If you use a broker, he’ll deal with the ads, tire kickers, escrow and closing in return for maybe 5% of sale price, which again might be more than you could get. You‘ll probably still have to be there for the test flight and prebuy.

As far as I can tell, the RV market is still hot. I bought mine a year ago from a gentleman on VAF. Calling him the morning after his ad had been posted in the evening, I was the 5th call he’d received and the second to offer asking price. After he and I had a deal, someone at his airport offered him $20k more, but he stood by his word (I love RV people!).

My point is twofold:
1) Decent RVs sell themselves. At least they did a year ago and I don’t see any evidence that that’s changed.
2) As opposed to dealers, brokers do less and cost less. You can drop your airplane off at a dealer, kiss it on the spinner, wait for offers, and cash the check. Brokers keep you much more involved in the process.

If I were to sell my RV now, I’d list it myself. Selling my 185, I’d be tempted to use a dealer.

 

[BCP Boys]

It's great that you have the fortitude to see when its time to hang it up and when you aren't proficient anymore. Many pilots don't want to admit that until it's too late.
As for the market ... I'm no expert here, just a guy with an opinion like the rest of us. I don't think the chapter 11 will have much effect on the RV market. My hope is that it will only be a matter of time before they get back on their feet and start being profitable. With that said, the market and value of these plane will drive themselves. If you take 5 minutes and go through the sites that have RVs listed for sale, you will quickly realize that the sellers are asking an incredible amount for their planes. This doesn't necessarily mean the market is "hot". There are several RV 8 and RV 7s on the market for $200K or more! They haven't sold and they have been on the market for a few months. The inventory is increasing as well because the majority are asking too much. There has been some nice RVs that come to the market which sell in less than a week, those are priced right. But there are many RVs on the market right this minute that have been for sale for months. They disappear off of the market, only to come back a few later with the same asking price. My point, if you really want to sell it, be sure your selling price makes you happy and pass on the fun to someone else at a reasonable profit. I'll use a quick example : Walt sold an RV8A here on VAF recently... really nice plane with Garmin Avionics. The last advertised selling price was $149K. It sold shortly after the price decrease to $149K. Walt did a great job on that plane and it sold fairly quickly. But I've seen similar planes on other sites with asking prices around $170K up to $215K for an RV8... and the owners are curious why their planes aren't selling !

 

[steveciha]

Some of us just drift away from flying. After many years of flying with many flying goals achieved, other interests came to the forefront and brought new challenges. In retrospect, I think I enjoyed building more than flying. After getting my pilot's license, I became more mission oriented. Once my missions were fulfilled, I started flying less and drifting to those new challenges and interests. There is life to be enjoyed after flying and aircraft ownership. Flying is a serious commitment and something not to be taken lightly. I spend time building woody boats, RC Aircraft, golf, flying low in my Porsche, and playing my guitars. Those things keep me busy, happy, and satisfied. And don't require the large commitment flying did. I quit flying in 2008 and sold the RV-7A that I built. Do I miss the plane and flying? Yes, sometimes. But I know it was the right time for me to give them up. If you feel that flying is drifting away, don't feel badly. Look to the new . You'll live, trust me. And I still love airplanes and live in our airpark.

Well said RH. And you just got to where I am sooner. I still have passion for some things. Mostly Corvettes and antique farm machinery. Looking for an old Caterpillar endloader now. Something new and different. I definitely enjoyed the challenge of building. The old kits, sans pre punch were much more of a challenge. I actually built the spars on the 6A. Not many can say that.

 

[steveciha]

It's great that you have the fortitude to see when its time to hang it up and when you aren't proficient anymore. Many pilots don't want to admit that until it's too late.
As for the market ... I'm no expert here, just a guy with an opinion like the rest of us. I don't think the chapter 11 will have much effect on the RV market. My hope is that it will only be a matter of time before they get back on their feet and start being profitable. With that said, the market and value of these plane will drive themselves. If you take 5 minutes and go through the sites that have RVs listed for sale, you will quickly realize that the sellers are asking an incredible amount for their planes. This doesn't necessarily mean the market is "hot". There are several RV 8 and RV 7s on the market for $200K or more! They haven't sold and they have been on the market for a few months. The inventory is increasing as well because the majority are asking too much. There has been some nice RVs that come to the market which sell in less than a week, those are priced right. But there are many RVs on the market right this minute that have been for sale for months. They disappear off of the market, only to come back a few later with the same asking price. My point, if you really want to sell it, be sure your selling price makes you happy and pass on the fun to someone else at a reasonable profit. I'll use a quick example : Walt sold an RV8A here on VAF recently... really nice plane with Garmin Avionics. The last advertised selling price was $149K. It sold shortly after the price decrease to $149K. Walt did a great job on that plane and it sold fairly quickly. But I've seen similar planes on other sites with asking prices around $170K up to $215K for an RV8... and the owners are curious why their planes aren't selling !

Well, I am not to the place where I am not proficient. But that day is approaching. I actually fly very well. What is fast fading is the passion to fly. And everyone reading this thread needs to understand that your day will come. Inevitable. The goal for me is to get the plane in someone else’s hanger not the day before but many years before that time arrives. I appreciate your guidance on marketing. I probably need to get an appraiser involved, and need to find one with RV experience. I have old avionics, no autopilot. It will probably need a new panel to satisfy most people nowadays. I don’t want to do that, or guess what someone else wants. That is why I am considering a broker. But again finding one with RV experience? Just need to search that person out.

 

[steveciha]

I’ll comment on the question of brokers. If you sell an airplane yourself, you write and post ads and have to deal with the tire kickers, escrow, prebuy, test flight and closing. If you drop it off at a dealer, they do all of that in return for roughly 7% of what they sold it for, which might be more than you could sell it for. If you use a broker, he’ll deal with the ads, tire kickers, escrow and closing in return for maybe 5% of sale price, which again might be more than you could get. You‘ll probably still have to be there for the test flight and prebuy.

As far as I can tell, the RV market is still hot. I bought mine a year ago from a gentleman on VAF. Calling him the morning after his ad had been posted in the evening, I was the 5th call he’d received and the second to offer asking price. After he and I had a deal, someone at his airport offered him $20k more, but he stood by his word (I love RV people!).

My point is twofold:
1) Decent RVs sell themselves. At least they did a year ago and I don’t see any evidence that that’s changed.
2) As opposed to dealers, brokers do less and cost less. You can drop your airplane off at a dealer, kiss it on the spinner, wait for offers, and cash the check. Brokers keep you much more involved in the process.

If I were to sell my RV now, I’d list it myself. Selling my 185, I’d be tempted to use a dealer.

Just exactly the info I am looking for. 7% to avoid dealing with the sale is in my opinion at this point in life a reasonable fee. I remember selling the first airplane. Wire transferred. Money was still not in my account when I watched the plane fly off the runway and head for Colorado. But it was by end of day. The way things are now, I just don’t want to deal with the particulars.

 

[steveciha]

I totally understand the forward thinking Steve! Good for you to realize it's getting time. I'm not quite there yet, but definitely seeing it it the not to distant future. I flew atrike for many years, got into the TW bush plane types, since I live in the north woods of MN. Lately have been thinking of getting something to go faster and farther, thinking I want another TW of the RV type. However a recent trip to visit my son in Oregon had me realizing that I may be slowing down a bit so will probably be leaning towards a tricycle gear plane for my last few years of flying. When you get ready to sell, give me a jingle. I might be interested. Heck, you're just south of me, easier trip than most I see listed on opposite side of the country. If you ever fly up near Park Rapids or Bemidji, MN let me know.

Good luck in your retirement and hopefully you'll get involved in another hobby that fulfills your time.

Ahh, Bemidji, I know it well! Built a Walgreens there bout 15 years ago. Actually used the plane I now fly as a commuter to the Bemidji airport. Free parking! Plane and pickup truck. Does this platform allow PM,s? if so send me your contact info.

 

[AN23]

Its difficult to use advertised airplanes as the benchmark. In my experience, the really nice RVs are sold before they ever make it to VAF or Barnstormers.

 

[SwimmingDragonfly96]

One of my biggest dreams is to fly safely as long as I’m capable and give it up on my own terms. Congrats to you for making it through a lifetime of GA and hanging up the gloves before losing the game.

 

[WWhunter]

Ahh, Bemidji, I know it well! Built a Walgreens there bout 15 years ago. Actually used the plane I now fly as a commuter to the Bemidji airport. Free parking! Plane and pickup truck. Does this platform allow PM,s? if so send me your contact info.

sending PM

 

[WWhunter]

Well, I am not to the place where I am not proficient. But that day is approaching. I actually fly very well. What is fast fading is the passion to fly. And everyone reading this thread needs to understand that your day will come. Inevitable. The goal for me is to get the plane in someone else’s hanger not the day before but many years before that time arrives. I appreciate your guidance on marketing. I probably need to get an appraiser involved, and need to find one with RV experience. I have old avionics, no autopilot. It will probably need a new panel to satisfy most people nowadays. I don’t want to do that, or guess what someone else wants. That is why I am considering a broker. But again finding one with RV experience? Just need to search that person out.

There are lots of guys out there that would 'take it as is' myself included. Many of us are mostly fair weather flyers and really don't need all the latest and greatest gizmos. About the fanciest thing I have had in any of my past aircraft has been a tablet of some sort and that is basically just to have updated charts since they are required. I grew up flying in the days of a map and compass. Basically, look out the window and go. Sell it the way it is and let the new owner upgrade to their wants and desires. You'll not get the price of your investment back out if you upgrade it. The new gizmos are crazy expensive.

 

[Pilot135pd]

I’ll comment on the question of brokers. If you sell an airplane yourself, you write and post ads and have to deal with the tire kickers, escrow, prebuy, test flight and closing. If you drop it off at a dealer, they do all of that in return for roughly 7% of what they sold it for, which might be more than you could sell it for. If you use a broker, he’ll deal with the ads, tire kickers, escrow and closing in return for maybe 5% of sale price, which again might be more than you could get. You‘ll probably still have to be there for the test flight and prebuy.

As far as I can tell, the RV market is still hot. I bought mine a year ago from a gentleman on VAF. Calling him the morning after his ad had been posted in the evening, I was the 5th call he’d received and the second to offer asking price. After he and I had a deal, someone at his airport offered him $20k more, but he stood by his word (I love RV people!).

My point is twofold:
1) Decent RVs sell themselves. At least they did a year ago and I don’t see any evidence that that’s changed.
2) As opposed to dealers, brokers do less and cost less. You can drop your airplane off at a dealer, kiss it on the spinner, wait for offers, and cash the check. Brokers keep you much more involved in the process.

If I were to sell my RV now, I’d list it myself. Selling my 185, I’d be tempted to use a dealer.

100% agree. I'd sell it myself. RV's sell themselves anyway and advertisement is free all over the place including here !

 

[MacCool]

There are lots of guys out there that would 'take it as is' myself included. Many of us are mostly fair weather flyers and really don't need all the latest and greatest gizmos. About the fanciest thing I have had in any of my past aircraft has been a tablet of some sort and that is basically just to have updated charts since they are required. I grew up flying in the days of a map and compass. Basically, look out the window and go. Sell it the way it is and let the new owner upgrade to their wants and desires. You'll not get the price of your investment back out if you upgrade it. The new gizmos are crazy expensive.

I would agree, upgrading the panel/avionics would definitely not be cost-effective...OP would never get beyond the cost of the labor, and the perceived value of the specific equipment would be highly dependent on guessing the wants and desires of any prospective buyers. Naturally, the more rudimentary the airplane, the narrower will be the market and the lower will be the market value, but spending money trying to modernize it for sale now makes no sense. For me...no way would I pay a broker without having tried to sell it on my own first.

 

[plehrke]

There are lots of guys out there that would 'take it as is' myself included. Many of us are mostly fair weather flyers and really don't need all the latest and greatest gizmos. About the fanciest thing I have had in any of my past aircraft has been a tablet of some sort and that is basically just to have updated charts since they are required.

agree. Pretty sure there are more of us out there then it appears here on VAF, since we are silent, not wanting to have to justify to others why We dont have three screens of info to have fun flying our small little planes.

 

[steveciha]

There are lots of guys out there that would 'take it as is' myself included. Many of us are mostly fair weather flyers and really don't need all the latest and greatest gizmos. About the fanciest thing I have had in any of my past aircraft has been a tablet of some sort and that is basically just to have updated charts since they are required. I grew up flying in the days of a map and compass. Basically, look out the window and go. Sell it the way it is and let the new owner upgrade to their wants and desires. You'll not get the price of your investment back out if you upgrade it. The new gizmos are crazy expensive.

I for sure do not intend to do any panel upgrades or changes. I am not well versed on what the latest greatest stuff would be. Better to sell it as is and let the price be reflective of an old panel. New owner can make whatever changes they wish.

 

[jrs14855]

I for sure do not intend to do any panel upgrades or changes. I am not well versed on what the latest greatest stuff would be. Better to sell it as is and let the price be reflective of an old panel. New owner can make whatever changes they wish.

 

[Snowflake]

We each face a last flight, just make sure it was YOUR decision to land that last flight

Someone once told me that there are only two ways a pilot stops flying:

1. They go flying knowing it's the last time they'll fly an airplane.
2. They go flying not knowing it's the last time they'll fly an airplane.

I don't know which is worse.

 

[Mel]

Someone once told me that there are only two ways a pilot stops flying:

1. They go flying knowing it's the last time they'll fly an airplane.
2. They go flying not knowing it's the last time they'll fly an airplane.

I don't know which is worse.

Although neither is good, I think #2 is probably worse. Kinda like the statement, "The only thing worse than getting old id NOT getting old!"

 

[Dad's RV-10]

For those attending Sun 'n Fun, there's a relevant forum being given:

 

[Paul Thomas]

I’ll comment on the question of brokers. If you sell an airplane yourself, you write and post ads and have to deal with the tire kickers, escrow, prebuy, test flight and closing. If you drop it off at a dealer, they do all of that in return for roughly 7% of what they sold it for, which might be more than you could sell it for. If you use a broker, he’ll deal with the ads, tire kickers, escrow and closing in return for maybe 5% of sale price, which again might be more than you could get. You‘ll probably still have to be there for the test flight and prebuy.

As far as I can tell, the RV market is still hot. I bought mine a year ago from a gentleman on VAF. Calling him the morning after his ad had been posted in the evening, I was the 5th call he’d received and the second to offer asking price. After he and I had a deal, someone at his airport offered him $20k more, but he stood by his word (I love RV people!).

My point is twofold:
1) Decent RVs sell themselves. At least they did a year ago and I don’t see any evidence that that’s changed.
2) As opposed to dealers, brokers do less and cost less. You can drop your airplane off at a dealer, kiss it on the spinner, wait for offers, and cash the check. Brokers keep you much more involved in the process.

If I were to sell my RV now, I’d list it myself. Selling my 185, I’d be tempted to use a dealer.

Just exactly the info I am looking for. 7% to avoid dealing with the sale is in my opinion at this point in life a reasonable fee. I remember selling the first airplane. Wire transferred. Money was still not in my account when I watched the plane fly off the runway and head for Colorado. But it was by end of day. The way things are now, I just don’t want to deal with the particulars.

I bought a Mooney last weekend. I would much prefer buying from an individual, especially when it comes to an experimental. The brokers I talked to didn't know the details of the airplanes they were selling and made the transaction more complicated; the only other offer I made was a little low because the broker didn't inspire trust and I thought I may be wasting my time (and I was). With a good ad, there should not be a whole lot that needs to be asked by a buyer and a seller should be able to determine quickly whether someone is interested and ready to buy. I'd pay more for a privately represented airplane because I can better access the situation.

It took 9 days on the offer airplane from first call to buyer having cash in hand.

 

[gmcjetpilot]

So what and how has the Chapter 11 event impacted RV value? I am so divorced right now from RV world that I am ignorant on this, and only learned of it perhaps a couple months ago, quite by accident.

The root of your question is what is is it worth. Chapt 11 has no affect on the Van's aircraft market at this point IMHO.... Thee MARKET is the MARKET... Van's issues are well known, they have been transparent and the ship has turned around. They will be in business for a long time to come in my opinion. They don't make North American P-51 Mustangs any more and they are worth a lot. RV's are nice flying planes, desirable as you know. If you want to learn about the issues go to Van's YouTube channel and watch the videos. There are massive threads on VAF Forum. It is old news and being sorted out; things are progressing well. So no factor in my opinion.

Your plane is your plane, meaning what condition airframe, condition engine/prop, build quality, fit & finish, equip, age, records, trike or tailwheel, slider or tip up. All this affects value. We all love planes but in the end it is a commodity or an asset that has a value, which is based on what someone will pay, ie what the market will pay. That varies over time, up and down. Like your house goes up and down. Your cars value in general goes down over time, but during pandemic. used car prices went up. That has correected a lot. Plane values historically go up over the long term, but very dependent on condition, records.

You can TRY to time it like buying wall street stocks, it is a gamble. You want to sell while the getting is good for you.... You may want a 3rd party condition inspection and appraisal. What is your strategy, get a market value and sell quick? Or add $10K hoping you sell it for a primum? Want to sell fast and save hanger and insurance, than price it at comparable prices. You set the price... BUT if you ask too much the Gov charges you. I AM KIDDING. JOKE....

The plane (and house) market was RED HOT in pandemic days. That BLIP in plane (and used car) prices has corrected it self, but we still have inflation overall. During pandemic C152's not so nice were listed asking + $60K. I was shocked. RV10's asking $350K range. I say asking because I don't know if or what they actually sold for, just what I saw ini classified. I was following TBM700 prices for fun. When I saw some nice ones had dipped to $750K range. Pandemic the price shot up $1.5M. Again things have cooled but there is residual inflation. Knowing what it cost to operate a TBM700 I am out... If you can't afford the $1.5M you can't afford to own and operate it.

I can give you a recent local RV-7 sale example and it was in the mid high $160K range. I was told this by an acquaintance of seller, it had nice paint and nice interior average to above average, custom/hot rod Lyc engine, CS prop (MT or Hartzell don't know). I assume panel glass with Garmin GPS/IFR navigator. Guy I talked to was not sure of that detail. Other than that I know it sold fast, with in a week. Guy bought it one state over sight unseen. Which is a good thing. I don't think seller built it, but is an airline pilot I assume it was well cared for.

There was a finished never flown, very near ready to fly, RV-7A on VAF Forum Classified a month ago, with fixed Sensenich metal prop, new engine (size I don't recall), basic panel and interior, not painted for about $130K I recall. It sold quickly, but many chimed in saying it was too much, which I disagreed with. Sellers answer to nay Sayers "it's sold". The issue would be it was on a residential airpark and would need to be taken apart and hauled off, or finished and flown out. It was basically finished. Why sell it, don't know, but it looked nice. Legally buyer could not get repairman's certificate.

Do your own research. Trade A Plane, Barn Stormers, VAF Forum Classified, and any other place experimental planes are listed. Be realistic on the condition, equipment, build quality, fit, finish, defects.

Buyers are super picky. You take hits for fixed pitch prop vs CS. More HP the better most want 200-210HP but 180HP Fuel injected is OK. Carb might be a negative vs FI (not for me but saying FI is desired). Paint? Show winner of DIY looks good at 100 ft. Panel, that is a big one. GLASS is kind of a thing. Most want glass. One or two axis autopilot? Garmin IFR GPS? Last not least interior. Is it full leather seats, side panels, baggage, or two nice 2 cushions per seat and stick boot? Although 160HP, fixed pitch, good basic panel and interior is functional and sufficient, people want the plane to look like a luxury car for cheap. If it does not have all the bells and whistles they dream of they want it cheaper.

You can look at RV4, RV6, RV7, RV8, RV14 and even RV10's to get a feel for market. RV-4 are great values, next RV-6.

That brings me to WEIGHT. A fat (BOW) RV is a pass for me. With all that paint, panel, interior, angle valve engine it is going to be heavy. Personally advise people to avoid RV's with high empty weight. When I say high well above the target set by Van's.

If your RV 7 is OSH show winner, paint, loaded Garmin panel, IO390, blended airfoil prop, leather interior, low time, 80/79 all jugs, emasculate records, I am guessing on value, so I wont guess. I would not be shocked at something in the $200K range.... BUT that is top dollar. If it is a basic VFR, average built, 160HP, fixed pitch, mid low 70's compression high time Lyc, sketchy records, accident history, way less. My point I can't tell you what your plane is worth. HOWEVER if you want take good pics, post all the info, times, equip, compression on VAF Forum and ask a price you want, and see what happens. I know you are not ready to sell. I am guessing NOW spring is best time to sell.

I am not sure if you built or bought, but either way you will not lose money unless airframe is damaged or engine ate itself. Nice nest egg. Planes tend to increase steadily since (not withstanding the pandemic blip and correction). The market goes UP and down. Fuel is high, politics, hanger availability, less pilots but more used RV's than ever before. However if a new C172 cost 1/2 million.... New Cirrus $1M.

Price it fair it will sell fast. GO for the gold, it may take time or you may have to lower price.... In the mean time if no longer flying it... sell it.

 

[steveciha]

The root of your question is what is is it worth. Chapt 11 has no affect on the Van's aircraft market at this point IMHO.... Thee MARKET is the MARKET... Van's issues are well known, they have been transparent and the ship has turned around. They will be in business for a long time to come in my opinion. They don't make North American P-51 Mustangs any more and they are worth a lot. RV's are nice flying planes, desirable as you know. If you want to learn about the issues go to Van's YouTube channel and watch the videos. There are massive threads on VAF Forum. It is old news and being sorted out; things are progressing well. So no factor in my opinion.

Your plane is your plane, meaning what condition airframe, condition engine/prop, build quality, fit & finish, equip, age, records, trike or tailwheel, slider or tip up. All this affects value. We all love planes but in the end it is a commodity or an asset that has a value, which is based on what someone will pay, ie what the market will pay. That varies over time, up and down. Like your house goes up and down. Your cars value in general goes down over time, but during pandemic. used car prices went up. That has correected a lot. Plane values historically go up over the long term, but very dependent on condition, records.

You can TRY to time it like buying wall street stocks, it is a gamble. You want to sell while the getting is good for you.... You may want a 3rd party condition inspection and appraisal. What is your strategy, get a market value and sell quick? Or add $10K hoping you sell it for a primum? Want to sell fast and save hanger and insurance, than price it at comparable prices. You set the price... BUT if you ask too much the Gov charges you. I AM KIDDING. JOKE....

The plane (and house) market was RED HOT in pandemic days. That BLIP in plane (and used car) prices has corrected it self, but we still have inflation overall. During pandemic C152's not so nice were listed asking + $60K. I was shocked. RV10's asking $350K range. I say asking because I don't know if or what they actually sold for, just what I saw ini classified. I was following TBM700 prices for fun. When I saw some nice ones had dipped to $750K range. Pandemic the price shot up $1.5M. Again things have cooled but there is residual inflation. Knowing what it cost to operate a TBM700 I am out... If you can't afford the $1.5M you can't afford to own and operate it.

I can give you a recent local RV-7 sale example and it was in the mid high $160K range. I was told this by an acquaintance of seller, it had nice paint and nice interior average to above average, custom/hot rod Lyc engine, CS prop (MT or Hartzell don't know). I assume panel glass with Garmin GPS/IFR navigator. Guy I talked to was not sure of that detail. Other than that I know it sold fast, with in a week. Guy bought it one state over sight unseen. Which is a good thing. I don't think seller built it, but is an airline pilot I assume it was well cared for.

There was a finished never flown, very near ready to fly, RV-7A on VAF Forum Classified a month ago, with fixed Sensenich metal prop, new engine (size I don't recall), basic panel and interior, not painted for about $130K I recall. It sold quickly, but many chimed in saying it was too much, which I disagreed with. Sellers answer to nay Sayers "it's sold". The issue would be it was on a residential airpark and would need to be taken apart and hauled off, or finished and flown out. It was basically finished. Why sell it, don't know, but it looked nice. Legally buyer could not get repairman's certificate.

Do your own research. Trade A Plane, Barn Stormers, VAF Forum Classified, and any other place experimental planes are listed. Be realistic on the condition, equipment, build quality, fit, finish, defects.

Buyers are super picky. You take hits for fixed pitch prop vs CS. More HP the better most want 200-210HP but 180HP Fuel injected is OK. Carb might be a negative vs FI (not for me but saying FI is desired). Paint? Show winner of DIY looks good at 100 ft. Panel, that is a big one. GLASS is kind of a thing. Most want glass. One or two axis autopilot? Garmin IFR GPS? Last not least interior. Is it full leather seats, side panels, baggage, or two nice 2 cushions per seat and stick boot? Although 160HP, fixed pitch, good basic panel and interior is functional and sufficient, people want the plane to look like a luxury car for cheap. If it does not have all the bells and whistles they dream of they want it cheaper.

You can look at RV4, RV6, RV7, RV8, RV14 and even RV10's to get a feel for market. RV-4 are great values, next RV-6.

That brings me to WEIGHT. A fat (BOW) RV is a pass for me. With all that paint, panel, interior, angle valve engine it is going to be heavy. Personally advise people to avoid RV's with high empty weight. When I say high well above the target set by Van's.

If your RV 7 is OSH show winner, paint, loaded Garmin panel, IO390, blended airfoil prop, leather interior, low time, 80/79 all jugs, emasculate records, I am guessing on value, so I wont guess. I would not be shocked at something in the $200K range.... BUT that is top dollar. If it is a basic VFR, average built, 160HP, fixed pitch, mid low 70's compression high time Lyc, sketchy records, accident history, way less. My point I can't tell you what your plane is worth. HOWEVER if you want take good pics, post all the info, times, equip, compression on VAF Forum and ask a price you want, and see what happens. I know you are not ready to sell. I am guessing NOW spring is best time to sell.

I am not sure if you built or bought, but either way you will not lose money unless airframe is damaged or engine ate itself. Nice nest egg. Planes tend to increase steadily since (not withstanding the pandemic blip and correction). The market goes UP and down. Fuel is high, politics, hanger availability, less pilots but more used RV's than ever before. However if a new C172 cost 1/2 million.... New Cirrus $1M.

Price it fair it will sell fast. GO for the gold, it may take time or you may have to lower price.... In the mean time if no longer flying it... sell it.

Thank you for a well thought out reply. I think that for me right now the plan will be to sell in August/ September time frame. Probably try and sell myself, after reading all responses. I am builder. Second plane. 0-360A1A carburetor RV200. Prop. Light empty weight. Old panel, new owner can install what they want. Also has original first gen VS before Van changed to bigger one. I have the new VS, but no desire to build it. Plane flys well, 600 hours now with smaller VS.

i just need to figure out price. .

 

[WWhunter]

Steve, I'm sure you are well versed in selling, and right after Oshkosh can be a great time as lots of dreamers are pumped up to 'finally' take the leap.
In my experience though, plane sales seem to drop off considerably once summer flying season slows down. I have experienced spring and early summer as the best time to sell, but then again, there always seem to be buyers for RV's.

 

[- Poindexter -]

.... New Cirrus $1M.

just flew the new 2024 SR22T, fully loaded G7 carbon Cirrus. $1,256,000. 10% down payment. Two year wait list.