Van's Air Force
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First flight protocol
- Thread starter Stoo
- Start date
Ed_Wischmeyer
Well Known Member
Find out about the EAA Flight Advisor program (I’m one of those) and they can help you prepare for first flight, talk about different flight test protocols, etc.
PM me if you want to talk on the phone about this.
Ed
PM me if you want to talk on the phone about this.
Ed
jbDC9
Well Known Member
Nope!
Please, don’t. It’s a bad idea.
With a runway this small, why would you even consider such a thing?
Please, don’t. It’s a bad idea.
Unless you encounter a major problem on take off....
Absolutely not! Take off and landing are the two most concentrated portions of flight. To transition from one to the other immediately on the first flight is much too big of a load.
As stated before, PLEASE seek out an EAA Flight Advisor and schedule a conference.
Absolutely not! Take off and landing are the two most concentrated portions of flight. To transition from one to the other immediately on the first flight is much too big of a load.
As stated before, PLEASE seek out an EAA Flight Advisor and schedule a conference.
Coming from another Flight Advisor and mil/civ flight test engineer...what Ed and Mel said!
If you haven't already, go to the EAA store right now and buy the EAA Flight Test Manual and Cards - https://shop.eaa.org/products/eaa-flight-test-manual-test-cards. In addition to time spent with a Flight Advisor, it's one of the best investments you can make in your first flight safety and success.
About runways, I fly my -7 off a 2575x30 runway during the summer and there's no way I'd use it for first flight. You want all the margin, including spare runway, that you can get.
HTH
Dave
If you haven't already, go to the EAA store right now and buy the EAA Flight Test Manual and Cards - https://shop.eaa.org/products/eaa-flight-test-manual-test-cards. In addition to time spent with a Flight Advisor, it's one of the best investments you can make in your first flight safety and success.
About runways, I fly my -7 off a 2575x30 runway during the summer and there's no way I'd use it for first flight. You want all the margin, including spare runway, that you can get.
HTH
Dave
rocketman1988
Well Known Member
NO
Plan to fly and fly the plan.
Plan to fly and fly the plan.
David Paule
Well Known Member
Stewart, since you already verified that the flight controls are properly connected and safetied, and have the correct movements, what on earth would that plan tell you?
As the others have said, get the EAA flight testing manual and cards and follow it. It's well-thought out.
Dave
As the others have said, get the EAA flight testing manual and cards and follow it. It's well-thought out.
Dave
Kyle Boatright
Well Known Member
Here's my $0.02...
Verify 100% that the control systems, engine, and prop function properly. Have several other mechanically inclined airplane owners/maintainers look at things.
Select an appropriate ground crew. Radio guy, phone guy, extinguisher guy, medic guy, car/chase guy, etc.
Brief yourself and your crew properly. "If this happens, I will do that. Your role will be..." Know the emergency landing opportunities in your vicinity. Know what your flight plan is and advise the ground crew. Probably a 30 minute flight climbing to 3-5,000' above the field testing flight characteristics, handling, and engine performance, plus a brief slow flight trial so you have an idea of your landing speed with flaps down. Know what constitutes an abort situation and what you'll do in that situation.
Pick an appropriate day. Choose your runway based on wind and emergency landing options.
Good preflight, good runup, controls free and clear, off you go. Don't be afraid to abort before liftoff if anything is amiss. After liftoff, you're probably committed, so climb at VY to at least 500', then maybe shallow the climb for cooling. If something is wonky, land immediately. Otherwise fly your initial flight plan.
For the most part, ignore all but the most dire engine warnings until you're on downwind. Even better, set your "idiot light" annunciators to "loose" limits, like 450 CHT, 240F oil, 50 lbs of oil pressure, etc. so those annunciators only bother you in serious circumstances. Don't (for instance) set a 400F CHT warning because you want <400F CHT's. You're likely to hit that limit and trigger lights and warnings that will distract you.
A good plan might include landing the airplane at a field with a longer runway and completing phase 1 (or at least most of it) from the longer runway.
JonJay
Well Known Member
We had many first flights off of our 2100’ runway. However, as part of the plan, first landings were done at a 5000’ runway ten minutes away. Multiple small runways were in the flight path/plan for emergency landings. Chase plane was always utilized.
We simply had no choice other than disassemble, move, and reassemble the aircraft somewhere else. That might present more risk than the flight itself.
Follow the advice presented here and use the resources available to make it as safe and reasonable as possible for your circumstances. Things may not always be ideal.
We simply had no choice other than disassemble, move, and reassemble the aircraft somewhere else. That might present more risk than the flight itself.
Follow the advice presented here and use the resources available to make it as safe and reasonable as possible for your circumstances. Things may not always be ideal.
Draker
Well Known Member
Good suggestions so far. Hard to believe my own first flight was less than a year ago. One other good suggestion I got from a fellow VAF member (who actually went up with me on my first flight) was: Have a clear emergency plan for every 100ft AGL. Something happens at 100ft, what do you do? Something happens at 200ft, what do you do? and so on up to your airplane's safe altitude. If a particular runway doesn't give you good options from any of those altitudes, wait for winds to favor a better runway.
jbDC9
Well Known Member
A first flight off of a 2537’ by 30’ runway would be doable; take off using the usual 1st flight profile and precautions. Land back on that runway if feeling comfortable with it, otherwise, head for a nearby larger airport. Shouldn’t be a big deal.
The problem is the fact that the OP would even consider a “crow hop” on that strip; it’s just a lousy idea, and what would it prove? A flight control check?? That’s taken care of with a thorough preflight inspection to check control continuity. With the profile described he’d blow through the trees/fence at the far end of the strip, destroy the ship, possibly hurt himself. I gotta give him credit for at least asking the question before going out to try it… but to reiterate, DON’T!
The problem is the fact that the OP would even consider a “crow hop” on that strip; it’s just a lousy idea, and what would it prove? A flight control check?? That’s taken care of with a thorough preflight inspection to check control continuity. With the profile described he’d blow through the trees/fence at the far end of the strip, destroy the ship, possibly hurt himself. I gotta give him credit for at least asking the question before going out to try it… but to reiterate, DON’T!
Only if you’re looking to make the cover of NTSB magazine.
I can't add anything constructive to what has been said already other than even if you were at a 5500 runway, a crow hop / lift off an immediate landing would be a bad idea.
They are a bad idea in most all circumstances for all of (and many more) reasons already mentioned.
There has been at least one fatal RV first flight that involved a low level lift-off and then (pre-planned) immediate landing attempt.
They are a bad idea in most all circumstances for all of (and many more) reasons already mentioned.
There has been at least one fatal RV first flight that involved a low level lift-off and then (pre-planned) immediate landing attempt.
First, thanks for all the replies, I agree with all of them. This was not something I came up with, it was the surprising recommendation of my prospective RV-experienced additional pilot. I have the EAA flight test book /cards and am well aware of what should be done to mitigate risk on a first flight. There is no way I would fly this profile, it just makes no sense to me. However, I thought I would run it by the brains trust just in case it was "a thing".
Not surprised it isn't!
Stewart Willoughby, 6
Not surprised it isn't!
Stewart Willoughby, 6
Ed_Wischmeyer
Well Known Member
There are a heap of required qualifications, good ones, for an additional pilot during Phase 1.
