Frankster13
Active Member
Early morning and short taxi left we me wondering about engine warmup time and/or oil temp minimum for takeoff. Is there any info from manufacture? Any rule of thumb?
Early morning and short taxi left we me wondering about engine warmup time and/or oil temp minimum for takeoff. Is there any info from manufacture? Any rule of thumb?
100 degrees. It's just what I was taught and re-taught over 50+ years. When cold, I start the engine with the oil cooler shutter closed. Open to halfway once I hit 100 on the ground.
Yea, and I was taught to pump the throttle several times with a carb before turning over the engine to prime it. All sorts of bad education out there. The most recent time, when I refused to do it due to the fire risk, resulted in a pretty heated argument where I was called an idiot by the CFI and told to stop reading things on the internet and listen to my teacher. Some of this stuff just won't die. One guy learns it and teaches it to the next guy with no one realizing it doesn't apply anymore or is just plane unsafe. Also taught that leaning will make the engine explode if done wrong, so just don't touch the red knob. was told it was purposely colored red to indicate danger. The list goes on. Shall we discuss Over Square? I am sure we were all taught that will also make the engine blow up. Pretty much the primary focus of complex training. Even have special knob hierarchy to avoid even a second in that state. Yet EVERY fixed pitch prop plane takes off over square. Sure, this was a big deal in WWII with turbo and super-charged engines, where the risks do exist. NA for naturally aspirated engines.
You will get all sorts of conservative opinions based upon conjecture or hold overs from th radial days. However, the authority on the matter - Lyc, says if the engine does not stumble with application of throttle, it is warm enough for take off. No minimum OT mentioned. Personally, I wait for CHTs to reach 250 to minimize cyl wall scuffing (piston expands faster than cyl wall).
Yup, you get all kinds of recommendations from the internet. Here's a fact: I run a Barrett IO-540x and Barrett put the first entry in the log book which says in part: Oil Temp (F) 140 degrees recommended before take off. Barrett must be a quack...
-Marc
Who primed the inside of their oil pan.
Yup, you get all kinds of recommendations from the internet. Here's a fact: I run a Barrett IO-540x and Barrett put the first entry in the log book which says in part: Oil Temp (F) 140 degrees recommended before take off. Barrett must be a quack...
-Marc
You suggesting that not everyone does this? All this time I thought it was just the primer type in debate.
what i don't get with 100 or even 140 F min oil temp is the reasoning behind. i understand that we like to avoid high oil pressures that come along with cooler oil but apart from that?
somebody wrote in the checklist of our flying club's archer (homegrown, not from piper) 100F min temperature but nobody could explain to me why. especially in winter the good old piper is idling forever, consuming time/money while creating noise and exhaust fumes and i really wonder what the point of that is.
if the oil pressure is within limits... what does 100F-oil do better than, let's say 50F-oil? in particular with multigrade. it should lubricate, seal, cool, clean and actuate with 50 just as fine as with 100F... or?
i checked the manual of my engine and mr. lycoming itself stated on the subject "if engine feels ok, you're good to go." did not find any specific number. they are very specific on all kinds of things in the manual but not in this regard.
what i don't get with 100 or even 140 F min oil temp is the reasoning behind. i understand that we like to avoid high oil pressures that come along with cooler oil but apart from that?
somebody wrote in the checklist of our flying club's archer (homegrown, not from piper) 100F min temperature but nobody could explain to me why. especially in winter the good old piper is idling forever, consuming time/money while creating noise and exhaust fumes and i really wonder what the point of that is.
if the oil pressure is within limits... what does 100F-oil do better than, let's say 50F-oil? in particular with multigrade. it should lubricate, seal, cool, clean and actuate with 50 just as fine as with 100F... or?
i checked the manual of my engine and mr. lycoming itself stated on the subject "if engine feels ok, you're good to go." did not find any specific number. they are very specific on all kinds of things in the manual but not in this regard.
Because 100 is a magic number. Everyone knows that.
Yea, and I was taught to pump the throttle several times with a carb before turning over the engine to prime it. All sorts of bad education out there. The most recent time, when I refused to do it due to the fire risk, resulted in a pretty heated argument where I was called an idiot by the CFI and told to stop reading things on the internet and listen to my teacher. Some of this stuff just won't die.
You were taught wrong. If you need to prime the motor with the throttle, start cranking the motor first, then use short 2" bursts on the throttle usually 2 to 3 times will do it. This avoids a fire because the motor is sucking it in. If you pump the throttle without spinning the motor, the fuel just drops down on the filter base as a puddle... not good.
When I had my PA28-151 in 1980, I would use the manual prime 3 cycles and then pull 4 blades (mags were always checked at shutoff) that motor would fire on the first blade. And that was with a Prestolite starter with aluminum cable from the back seat battery to the firewall.
I wouldn't mind a manual primer in the RV, I just don't like the copper line.
Sorry for the drift......
Wow, this thread opened up all sorts of strong opinions.
Several people have already mentioned this, but I'll pile on as well. For the IO360, Lycoming specifically says if the engine is warm enough to go to full throttle without stumbling, it's warm enough to fly. There is no published minimum oil temp for flight, assuming correct oil grade is being used.
Having said that, I don't see why I should care if somebody decides to set there own personal minimum higher than that, but just be honest that you're making up your own numbers.
One exception to what I just said; I recently did a 141 prog check for a ppl student who's instructor recently transplanted to KS from WI. He had taught this kid to sit in the runup at 1,800 rpm until the oil temp started to come up.
It's my belief that when you do something like that, you run more risk of abrading the prop or creating other sorts of havoc than you solve by waiting for the oil temp to show some made up number, and I suggested to both of them that he quit doing that....But, much like folks who need a minimum oil temp, thats just my opinion and I don't have data to back it up.
kind of nailed it. Folks tell you it is mandatory but not a sole can tell you why or where it is written, excluding the barrett advice above and if we follow that then we have all been doing it wrong. Heck, I have had a CFI tell me it is in the manual. You are correct, Lycoming is not bashful about telling you exactly what is or isn't allowed; They even tell you when to pre-heat. Search as much as you like and the best reason you will get is "someone told me to do it." No different than friday the 13th is bad luck. No rationale, but just keeps perpetuating generation after generation. Some people will actually make up a reason to justify following the rule. That is my favorite.
It is my belief that this was a general guideline for radials using 50 weight oil many decades ago and keeps getting passed on. But have no facts to back that up.
I agree with everything you said EXCEPT the Friday 13 thing. That one is true, I've seen all the movies and something bad always happens on Friday 13th !!
And that one takes a backseat to "Nothing good ever happens after midnight".
That one's true..