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Emag/Pmag

Tom,

Gary's problem has been discussed on this forum before, along with some others.

Emag Air has improved both their software and hardware since his accident, including the magnet retention, which is well documented on their web site. The upgrades are free to anyone who wants them, all Emag asks is for the owner to pay $25 shipping.

What we are finding is that people who send their P-mags in for the updates, do not seem to be having problems.

There are a number of us who are running E/P-mags with good success.

As for this:
Tom Hunter said:
...If you are installing a new Hartzell CS prop and you install an E or Pmag your warranty is voided. Of course this would only be important if you are installing a brand new prop...
Click to expand...
I could find nothing about this on their web site and this was the first I have ever heard of it. Is this true for all EI's or only the E/P-mags? If so, what is so unique about the E/P-mags?
 
Performance numbers...

That was Ground Speed average, 4 way track, 7,500 feet at lowest power setting and 50 degrees rich of peak that would maintain 160 mph. Engine is a hot rod Lycon IO-320 which produced 201 hp on dyno, 10:1 pistons and other trick stuff that Lycon is noted for.

Tom
 
Other failure modes and prop effect

Re O-360 with Hartzell CS prop application, and EI/FADEC, there is a Service Notice on Van's site dated Mar 2003. Essentially no change to how you already fly the airplane with this engine/prop setup.

In all the posts re electronic ignition (EI), I've not seen any comments or consideration as to what else can cause magnetos or EI units to fail. Having a dead Slick magneto here at the moment, it appears that a bad spark plug was the culprit. Open thru core, even on a 200k ohm scale, while other seven measured 5k ohms or less. Also found the plug gaps had widened considerably on the plugs associated with dead mag (center electrode erosion, ovaling). Re the bad plug, the associated stator in the dead mag was noticeably carboned/crudded vs the other 3, as was the rotor. The points looked fine. The condenser passes a rudimentary ability to charge/recharge test, and after disassemble/clean, the mag is firing again on all four, at least off the airplane, and not at higher temps of engine compartment. Obviously the coil still works, at least on the bench.

As to why the plug failed, it looks like plug was exposed to an exhaust leak in the past, but not currently active. Just a guess. The plugs were last gapped, cleaned, approx 50 hrs before this event. I had recently done several lengthy cross countries at 8'-10k' feet, not usual mode of flying for me in this airplane. There was also quite a bit of lead buildup on the dead mag's plugs, REM38E type.

I am posting this to this Emag/Pmag thread for several reasons. The price of a new Slick mag is near the cost of a new Pmag with latter/them currently on sale, thus considering the latter. The parts costs for Slick mags quickly make rebuild not economical, unless you're certain of what parts may need replaced (need expensive, seldom used equip to properly test condenser/coil/ignition wires/etc). But, mostly because I think it important to consider what happens to a given EI model/brand when a bad igntion wire or bad plug is the beginning/root of the problem, and not just condemn the unit. Otherwise, it may simply happen again.

:(
 
No problems in 150 hours

Except the mechanical issues I posted on this site in conjunction with re-installing after service. That issue has nothing to do with the mags.

The previous owner reported to me that he had an issue near 100 hrs. He switched off the bad mag, flew home, and sent both units in for service.

As another pilot pointed out, if you have two of these they are not interconnected. Very low probability that both would fail at the same time unless due to a common cause having nothing to do with the E/P mags. A problem in the electrical system or a thermal problem could conceivably kill both units on the same flight. How about vibration as another pilot pointed out? Seems like it could kill both units.

However, if a thermal problem, it would have to be a gross one. Electronics doesn't just fail at some precise temperature, unless it is a very high one. I think that would be over 450F. If an electrical problem, how about over voltage? Voltage going out of regulation on the high side????????? Vibration? I don't know what that would take to kill both at virtually the same time, but it seems like it would also have to be gross.

Or, was it pilot mismanagement of the situation, such as leaving the bad mag on? I'm not saying I would do any better, necessarily, but it wouldn't be fair to blame E-Mag for improper use of a redundant system.

Since my life may depend on both of these units not failing at the same time, I would like to know what caused the accident. Lawyering up is not helpful and is basically zero information for the aviation community. It may be justifiable and necessary, but still provides zero information.

IMO if you are flying with experimental systems, like Emag, you are on your own. You need to apply the technical knowledge and judgment necessary to ensure you can use it with an acceptable level of risk. There are exceptions. For example, if the manufacturer covered up information necessary for safety or deliberately took unsafe shortcuts in design or manufacturing. In that case the manufacture need to be punished. However, even "deliberately took unsafe shortcuts" is a slippery slope. A lawyer could probably argue that every one of us flying an experimental deliberately took an unsafe shortcut to save money.

The primary reason I fly an experimental airplane is that I have made a personal judgment that the certification process does not enhance safety to a degree that justifies the increased costs. Actually, it is not clear to me that certification enhances safety at all.

Like it or not, there is a cost/safety trade. Also comfort/safety. Put a full cage into your car. Wear a Nomex suit, full coverage helmet, and a racing harness. Use a racing fuel cell. Then drive at legal speeds. In this case your chances of dying in an car accident will go virtually to zero.

No one does that, but plenty have sued auto manufacturers for making cost/safety trades. Again, hiding critical safety information is a different story. Information to make informed choices should be available to consumers.

Anyway, there is nothing to learn from the mere information that a plane crashed. It is not until the reasons behind the crash are made known in detail that lessons may be learned about either piloting technique, management of aircraft systems, defective aircraft systems, or????????

From my point of view there is no information at this time to deter me from continuing to use this product or to change the way I use it.
 
I recently had my Pmag updated to the roll pin magnet attach & from Firmware 25 to 27 but I cannot find on their web site any explaination of the difference so I am assuming no set up differences. Anyone know what the firmware differences are?
I decided to time my mags the manual way rather than the blow in the tube way so it should be less sensitive to a software glitch. The manual way is pretty easy anyway.
I am interested to know which advance curve is being used. I am still on the 34 degree A curve with a carbed 0-360 and CS BA prop. Should I clip the wire and go to 39 degrees? My CHTs are all close to 300 degrees at cruise.
 
RV7AV8R said:
I recently had my Pmag updated to the roll pin magnet attach & from Firmware 25 to 27 but I cannot find on their web site any explaination of the difference so I am assuming no set up differences. Anyone know what the firmware differences are?
I decided to time my mags the manual way rather than the blow in the tube way so it should be less sensitive to a software glitch. The manual way is pretty easy anyway.
I am interested to know which advance curve is being used. I am still on the 34 degree A curve with a carbed 0-360 and CS BA prop. Should I clip the wire and go to 39 degrees? My CHTs are all close to 300 degrees at cruise.
Click to expand...

John, I changed over to the advance curve about 20 hrs ago with some trepidation. It was a complete non event. If I remember rifghtly I saw a very slight CHT rise - perhaps 5C - and EGT fall (which I think is what you would expect). I have never thought about reverting. I cant really tell any difference. Either way the engine is very smooth but I have stayed on the advance curve because the book sais I get more power and I can see no downside.
 
Bill and Steve, Thanks for the info. I'll clip the advance curve wire and test with more comfort knowing I shouldn't expect a noticable differnce. This web site is great!
 
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