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Break in oil

SeanB

Well Known Member
I’ve got 11.5 break in hours on my Aerosport IO-375 Engine. Things are beginning to behave well. Just noticed I have a slightly different variant of oil in my supply. I’ve been using Aeroshell W100. Just noticed during current oil :)change, I also have Aeroshell 100. Haven’t run the latter, but just added 6 qts. of it during this oil change. Okay to also use for break in? Is it okay to mix with the W100? Drain it and go back to W100? Mike Busch? :)

Thanks!
 

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Aeroshell 100 is mineral break in oil with no additives

Aeroshell W100 is ashless dispersant for normal use.

You should be using the 100 for break-in
 
What Mike says

I used W100 as this is what was recommended for break-in but did not research straight 100. DO NOT use anything with + in it for break-in.

Interested in hearing tribal knowledge on this.
 
The conventional wisdom is to use the straight mineral oil with no additives (no W, not ashless dispersant). Mike B says break-in with ashless dispersant is fine, just don’t use anything with an anti-scuff additive. That’s what I did, everything fine. Phillips also recommends their ashless dispersant for both break-in and normal operations.
 
The conventional wisdom is to use the straight mineral oil with no additives (no W, not ashless dispersant). Mike B says break-in with ashless dispersant is fine, just don’t use anything with an anti-scuff additive. That’s what I did, everything fine. Phillips also recommends their ashless dispersant for both break-in and normal operations.

Phillips has specific break in oil that says: used for break in oil called Type M. Not sure where you got that they recommend AD for break in unless you have a turbo.
 
Straight from the Phillips website X/C Product Data Sheet “both viscosity grades are recommended for use during break-in and then as the operational oil until TBO”. It goes on to further state “ Provides cleaner and quicker break-in than traditional all-mineral, non-additized, single-grade oils”. It does make me wonder if X/C is acceptable for break-in and the second “marketing claim” is true, then why offer the “inferior” M oil.

Phillips can recommend whatever they want, but I guess I'd be more concerned with what Lycoming recommends.

This is from Service Instruction SI-1014N. Lubricating oil recommendations for all Lycoming opposed Series Aircraft Engines (you should read it for yourself, because there are some exceptions I didn't cut and paste)

Bold added my me

D. All other engines must be operated on non-dispersant mineral oil during the first 50 hours of operation, or until oil consumption has stabilized. Use of LW-16702, while required for certain engine models as listed in Part B above, could inhibit break-in on other engine models and therefore should not be used during break-in. Reference Service Bulletin No. 446, Service Bulletin No. 471, and/or Service Instruction No. 1409 for additional information. If an ashless dispersant oil is used in a new engine, or a newly overhauled engine, high oil consumption might possibly be experienced. The additives in some of these ashless dispersant oils may retard the break-in of the piston rings and cylinder walls. This condition can be avoided by the use of non- dispersant mineral oil until oil consumption has stabilized and then change to ashless dispersant oil. Non- dispersant mineral oil must also be used following the replacement of one or more cylinders until the oil consumption has stabilized.
 
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break in requires oils that have NO additives that reduce friction. AD or ashless dispersent is added solely for the purpose of holding deposits in suspension and does NOT reduce friction. It is ok to use AD oils during break in and many strongly recomend it, because a lot of debris can be created during the break in and without the AD to hold this in suspension, it ends up as sludge in the engine. That said, some AD oils also have other additives that do include friction modifiers, so caution must be exercised. I use philips XC 20w50 (NOT the Victory stuff), as I have done the research and know that AD is the only additive and it uses a pure mineral stock. Synthetic oils must also be avoided. I do not know what additives are in the W100. I thought they only put the additives in the + stuff, but don't really know.

additive free oil should be used for 25-50 hours and not just until oil consumption stabilizes. There is still light polishing going on for some time after that.
 
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The standard forever has been the Mineral oil on normally aspirated. Just did the top on my O320 and using the Aeroshell 100 Mineral oil for break for the first 20 hrs I burnt maybe 1 qt.

Ran it like I stole it at 6500 to 7500 ft DA and 2600 rpm (max for the prop)

Switched to Phillips XC 20w50 and 22 hrs so far and not even 1/2 qt used.

Certainly different than on the automotive end but you can't argue with success.

Tim
 
MODELS AFFECTED: All Lycoming opposed series aircraft engines

Phillips can recommend whatever they want, but I guess I'd be more concerned with what Lycoming recommends.

This is from Service Instruction SI-1014N. Lubricating oil recommendations for all Lycoming opposed Series Aircraft Engines (you should read it for yourself, because there are some exceptions I didn't cut and paste)

Bold added my me

D. All other engines must be operated on non-dispersant mineral oil during the first 50 hours of operation, or until oil consumption has stabilized. Use of LW-16702, while required for certain engine models as listed in Part B above, could inhibit break-in on other engine models and therefore should not be used during break-in. Reference Service Bulletin No. 446, Service Bulletin No. 471, and/or Service Instruction No. 1409 for additional information. If an ashless dispersant oil is used in a new engine, or a newly overhauled engine, high oil consumption might possibly be experienced. The additives in some of these ashless dispersant oils may retard the break-in of the piston rings and cylinder walls. This condition can be avoided by the use of non- dispersant mineral oil until oil consumption has stabilized and then change to ashless dispersant oil. Non- dispersant mineral oil must also be used following the replacement of one or more cylinders until the oil consumption has stabilized.[/QUOTE

This paragraph applies to Non-Lycoming opposed series aircraft engines. Most of us use engines that do not fall into this category.

I did find the documentation from going with a Non-AD to AD interesting. I'll follow Mike Busch's recommendations.
 

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respectfully, I don't see how in the world you could get the idea that a Lycoming service letter only applies to non-lycoming engines. The "all other" statement is in reference to turbos and the handful of specific engines models they call out in the previous paragraphs.

But thats the great thing about experimental aviation, you're free to proceed as you see fit.
 
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. The additives in some of these ashless dispersant oils may retard the break-in of the piston rings and cylinder walls. This condition can be avoided by the use of non- dispersant mineral oil until oil consumption has stabilized and then change to ashless dispersant oil. .

This advice is based on a least common denominator principal because SOME AD oils also contain other additives. Lyc is not saying that the AD additive in the mineral oil is bad for break in. Instead they are saying that some AD oils ALSO contain other additives that ARE bad for break in and they do not intend to go out of their way to test and certify each of those oils.

Philps XC 20w50 is just mineral oil and AD. No other additives and because of this fact, Philips declares it safe for break in. Obviously each of us must make our own decision. I use the XC because new engines produce a LOT of blowby and debris and I want this suspended in the oil (primary purpose of the AD additive) vs going to the bottom of my pan as sludge.
 
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AD OR Non-AD

respectfully, I don't see how in the world you could get the idea that a Lycoming service letter only applies to non-lycoming engines. The "all other" statement is in reference to turbos and the handful of specific engines models they call out in the previous paragraphs.

But thats the great thing about experimental aviation, you're free to proceed as you see fit.

D. All other engines must be operated on non-dispersant mineral oil during the first 50 hours of operation, or until oil consumption has stabilized. Use of LW-16702, while required for certain engine models as listed in Part B above, could inhibit break-in on other engine models and therefore should not be used during break-in. Reference Service Bulletin No. 446, Service Bulletin No. 471, and/or Service Instruction No. 1409 for additional information. If an ashless dispersant oil is used in a new engine, or a newly overhauled engine, high oil consumption might possibly be experienced. The additives in some of these ashless dispersant oils may retard the break-in of the piston rings and cylinder walls. This condition can be avoided by the use of non- dispersant mineral oil until oil consumption has stabilized and then change to ashless dispersant oil. Non- dispersant mineral oil must also be used following the replacement of one or more cylinders until the oil consumption has stabilized.

Being an A&P you have more experience than me in this matter. The OP was asking about Aeroshell 100 and Aeroshell W100. One being a anti dispersant (W100) and the other one not (100). Paragraph D is pretty clear that a Non-AD should be used. Does not say ok to use an AD providing no other additives are involved just do not use an AD until oil consumption is stabilized or 50 hrs. Since Mike Busch and I'm guessing the majority of users or at least a decent % (Including me) used an AD type oil from the very beginning (W100) I was trying to make some since of this bulletin and why one would choose to disregard Paragraph D from the company that is warrantying the engine. My 390 did seem to take quite some time to what I would consider fully break-in (Oil usage slowly crept down to 1 qt every 10 hours) but that took close to 100 hrs. and later 1 qt every 12 hours after 200 hours.

The use of a Non-AD type oil and Lycoming gives guidance on going to an AD along with the process and risk (Sludge build-up) just seems an unnecessary part of an engine break-in BUT paragraph 5 is very specific on its guidance.

In the next year I'll have a 540 to break in. Hopefully Lycoming can clarify their intention of paragraph 5 by then.

Regardless I do appreciate the input.

Just saw a later post and it's possible that when Lycoming uses (In some of these) that if you ensure your AD of choice does not contain additional additives, they are ok to use. Just not worded very well in my engineering opinion.
(Proper grammar was never my strength)

Also just noticed when they updated the service instruction going from M to N (End of July 2020) they specially added the wording non-dispersant in front of mineral oil in the first sentence of paragraph D.
 
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No problem

Yup. Sounds like you and I are on the same page. Sorry if I misunderstood why you were saying

Hopefully everyone can at least agree to disagree. I still don’t quite understand why Lycoming can’t be clearer what to use. It’s not like properly breaking in an engine is not important. Throw in elevation issues and not using an oil that provides decent “scuffing” and now you have a real problem. With the 390 there still are users who suffered from “sticky” valves. These engines (cyl 2) seem to also share a higher oil consumption than most users. Does glazing or partial glazing have an impact ? Not breaking an engine in properly doesn’t help the issue I’m sure. For sticky valves Mike Busch seems to feel that CHT’s aren’t high enough but if that is true why does cylinder 2 which is the hottest of the 4 seem to have a sticky valve issue more often? (IO390).

Sorry about the thread drift.
 
I still don’t quite understand why Lycoming can’t be clearer what to use.

One of my current flight students is a Field Service Engineer for Lycoming. I'll ask him for the plain english opinion the next time I think of it, although he may not want his personal opinion thrown out there on a public forum. (One of the benefits of living in Wichita).
 
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