Hi,
I got an automotive alternator for my O-360 Lycoming .
The issue is that Vertical Power is not compatible, Field connection simply doesnt exist at the rear of the alternator.
Has anyone dealed with that?
Great thanks
Dominique
Salut Dominique, welcome to VAF!
There are several different types of alternators that can work fine. I don't know exactly what the Vertical Power box expects, but I suspect that you can make most alternators work ok. Here are some hints:
https://www.kitplanes.com/alternator-woes/
If this doesn't become more clear, perhaps post some pictures of the alternator and the connector. Many alternators have small wiring diagram on the alternator body. Best of luck!
Looks like Dominique has what is commonly known as a "one-wire" alternator. They are popular in the custom and retro automotive community (have one on my '48 Plymouth) and just have one wire that connects to the battery bus. I don't know how this would be incorporated into our aircraft wiring architecture, might be better to use a conventional "field" alternator instead for full control.
Here is the alternator I use it has a field connection on the back of it
http://www.ase-supply.com/product_p/nd-021080-0760.htm
Field plug and wire
https://bandc.com/product/replaceme...-alternators-l-40-bc410-h-bc425-h-sk35-lom30/
O-320 mounting kits, not sure if the O-360 is the same https://bandc.com/product/replaceme...-use-with-single-groove-flywheel-pulley/#belt
https://bandc.com/product/replaceme...case-mount-for-use-with-brand-x-starter/#belt
Here is the alternator I use it has a field connection on the back of it
http://www.ase-supply.com/product_p/nd-021080-0760.htm
Field plug and wire
https://bandc.com/product/replaceme...-alternators-l-40-bc410-h-bc425-h-sk35-lom30/
O-320 mounting kits, not sure if the O-360 is the same https://bandc.com/product/replaceme...-use-with-single-groove-flywheel-pulley/#belt
https://bandc.com/product/replaceme...case-mount-for-use-with-brand-x-starter/#belt
Here is the alternator I use it has a field connection on the back of it
http://www.ase-supply.com/product_p/nd-021080-0760.htm
Field plug and wire
https://bandc.com/product/replaceme...-alternators-l-40-bc410-h-bc425-h-sk35-lom30/
O-320 mounting kits, not sure if the O-360 is the same https://bandc.com/product/replaceme...-use-with-single-groove-flywheel-pulley/#belt
https://bandc.com/product/replaceme...case-mount-for-use-with-brand-x-starter/#belt
@Ruready, so I bought this alternator you recommended and it's A COMPLETELY different mounting ear than the BNC L-40... it's not even close.. the L40 has basically 3 mounting points and this one has two and does not mount the same... Having a lot of difficulty trying to fit this to an O-320 and now doesn't seem worth it... am Wary of trusting 2 mounting points on this one you recommended, not to mention the built in regulator interferes with the motor mount bracket bolts
@Ruready, so I bought this alternator you recommended and it's A COMPLETELY different mounting ear than the BNC L-40... it's not even close.. the L40 has basically 3 mounting points and this one has two and does not mount the same... Having a lot of difficulty trying to fit this to an O-320 and now doesn't seem worth it... am Wary of trusting 2 mounting points on this one you recommended, not to mention the built in regulator interferes with the motor mount bracket bolts
not to mention the built in regulator interferes with the motor mount bracket bolts
@Ruready, so I bought this alternator you recommended and it's A COMPLETELY different mounting ear than the BNC L-40... it's not even close.. the L40 has basically 3 mounting points and this one has two and does not mount the same... Having a lot of difficulty trying to fit this to an O-320 and now doesn't seem worth it... am Wary of trusting 2 mounting points on this one you recommended, not to mention the built in regulator interferes with the motor mount bracket bolts
Here is the alternator I use it has a field connection on the back of it
http://www.ase-supply.com/product_p/nd-021080-0760.htm
Field plug and wire
https://bandc.com/product/replaceme...-alternators-l-40-bc410-h-bc425-h-sk35-lom30/
O-320 mounting kits, not sure if the O-360 is the same https://bandc.com/product/replaceme...-use-with-single-groove-flywheel-pulley/#belt
https://bandc.com/product/replaceme...case-mount-for-use-with-brand-x-starter/#belt
Ruready, any idea if I could use this as a drop-in replacement for the PlanePower AL12-EI60/B I currently have on my RV-10? https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/lightweight_alternator3.php
From a first glance it seems like the plugs are different and the pulley wheel is a slightly smaller diameter on mine, but otherwise they seem identical. Changing my plug is easy, but would the pulley wheel be an easy swap?
@Ruready, so I bought this alternator you recommended and it's A COMPLETELY different mounting ear than the BNC L-40... it's not even close.. the L40 has basically 3 mounting points and this one has two and does not mount the same... Having a lot of difficulty trying to fit this to an O-320 and now doesn't seem worth it... am Wary of trusting 2 mounting points on this one you recommended, not to mention the built in regulator interferes with the motor mount bracket bolts
@ruready, thank you for the info! I could see it was the same case... have gone through a month of headaches and downtime trying to get help and machine shops to help me out... I don't have a machine shop, the alternator shop guys looked at me like we won't make you a bracket and why the **** would you do that? Unbelievably frustrating process... thank you for the diagrams.
Still stuck at the moment, Alternator shop sold me a 2nd Denso (55amp) that is more like the kubota alternator that came off the O-320... had to get a longer belt for that one to get it away from the prop oil line, had to pull the prop, which then maxxed out the tensioner bracket, then had to add a larger pulley... and of course the cost will wind up being more than if I just bought the full L-40 kit from B&C... sorry, wish I had more machine shop folks to help me around KMYF
@ruready, thank you for the info! I could see it was the same case... have gone through a month of headaches and downtime trying to get help and machine shops to help me out... I don't have a machine shop, the alternator shop guys looked at me like we won't make you a bracket and why the **** would you do that? Unbelievably frustrating process... thank you for the diagrams.����
Still stuck at the moment, Alternator shop sold me a 2nd Denso (55amp) that is more like the kubota alternator that came off the O-320... had to get a longer belt for that one to get it away from the prop oil line, had to pull the prop, which then maxxed out the tensioner bracket, then had to add a larger pulley... and of course the cost will wind up being more than if I just bought the full L-40 kit from B&C... sorry, wish I had more machine shop folks to help me around KMYF
The one I posted is 40 amp, you would have to compare the case to see if a 60 amp Denso will fit the same mounting kit. Do you need more than 40 amps?
The 60amp 2850 sure looks the same as the 40amp 0760, I'm just trying to confirm it with dimensions.
The 40 amp Denso dimensions, 5.5" center hole to center hole and 6.75" outside edge lug to outside opposite lug.
Can the Alternator brush end case be re clocked 180 degrees? This would place the output stud in the same position as the PP alternator.
Yes it can, but first the windings must be re-clocked in the other case half. Take pictures before disassembly.
First carefully uncurl the 4 winding leads attached under terminal screws on the regulator. Straighten each lead using needle nose pliers. Remove the regulator. Make a reference mark on case, and winding, then another mark on the case where you plan to move the winding to for clocking (180 Deg).
To remove the windings from the case half you may have to apply torch heat first to remove the bearing then flame to each side at the 2 mounting ears locations for a short amount of time maybe 10 seconds each. Take care to keep flame away from windings. The heat will expand the case, and with a gloved hand you should be able to remove.
After testing the clocking position, and confirming case bolts position, windings line up with 4 holes in back half of case then reassemble in reverse using moderate heat to reinstall bearing, and windings.
Thanks to a friend of mine who is an A&P, RV Builder, Machinist mechanic taught me how to do this. The link RUREADY shared for the Denso alternator is the alternator we used. Note: We discovered the China copy of Denso alternator was not of the same quality and tolerance as the Denso. Torch was not needed to remove bearing, and windings on copy.
Hi Ruready,
On the above photo that you posted, what is the thickness of the steel of the B&C mounting bracket? Is it 3/16" or 1/4"?
Thanks,
Phil
To remove the windings from the case half you may have to apply torch heat first to remove the bearing then flame to each side at the 2 mounting ears locations for a short amount of time maybe 10 seconds each. Take care to keep flame away from windings. The heat will expand the case, and with a gloved hand you should be able to remove.
Following Rogers instructions, I re-clocked the alternator rear housing to place the output stud in the same position as the PP alternator.
A bit of heat on the outer housing and the coil came out with gentle tapping on a wood block. Once the coil is removed, place it in the freezer, this will make it much easier to reassemble. About 1.5 hours to accomplish the task.
Bearing marked NSK Japan.
Thanks to Ruready for pointing out this alternator and Roger for the instructions.
Thanks Bill, I’m thinking I should gather the parts and try this over the next couple months.Thanks for this confirmation Don - -Looking at the ASP website, they have the 60 amp version is this same form factor. This means the same housing, but the stator and rotor are the same mechanical dimensions.
I have been off and on looking at alternatives for the PP since 2018.
It "appears" that this base unit could be converted to a nice replacement with B&C - like reliability.
It seems to need:
1. new (B&C) mount hardware
2. fabricated aft steel leg for mounting
3. B&C tension arm
4. PP regulator w/voltage limit and external field supply.(11-1043 HARTZELL PLANE-POWER REGULATOR BRUSH ASSY -$100 @ Spruce)
So, roughly $450 for the parts it would then bolt into position and provide the voltage limiting of the PP EI60. The PP EI60 is now on the order of $1260. $200 core???+$1056 for unit.
What did I miss?
EarthX offers a overvoltage device, linked here:https://earthxbatteries.com/product/ovpd-over-voltage-protection-device/
Thanks Bill, I’m thinking I should gather the parts and try this over the next couple months.
Following Rogers instructions, I re-clocked the alternator rear housing to place the output stud in the same position as the PP alternator.
A bit of heat on the outer housing and the coil came out with gentle tapping on a wood block. Once the coil is removed, place it in the freezer, this will make it much easier to reassemble. About 1.5 hours to accomplish the task.
Bearing marked NSK Japan.
Thanks to Ruready for pointing out this alternator and Roger for the instructions.
Why did you reclock it, I like the stud pointing up away from the exhaust, did you have fit issues with it clocked in the original position?
@ruready, thank you for the info! I could see it was the same case... have gone through a month of headaches and downtime trying to get help and machine shops to help me out... I don't have a machine shop, the alternator shop guys looked at me like we won't make you a bracket and why the **** would you do that? Unbelievably frustrating process... thank you for the diagrams.
Still stuck at the moment, Alternator shop sold me a 2nd Denso (55amp) that is more like the kubota alternator that came off the O-320... had to get a longer belt for that one to get it away from the prop oil line, had to pull the prop, which then maxxed out the tensioner bracket, then had to add a larger pulley... and of course the cost will wind up being more than if I just bought the full L-40 kit from B&C... sorry, wish I had more machine shop folks to help me around KMYF