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alternator

godspeed

Well Known Member
I am planning on dynon EFIS D100 & EMS D100 7" , trio autopilot, 396 gps
sl30 maybe sl40, prob a garmin 327 transponder, backup altimeter , airspeed'
well thats all I have planned so far.. I have the led position/landing lights
and strobes from Creative Air (hope I don't need additonal landing lights in the leading edges) could happen.. do I need 60amp or 35 amp alternator ?
I have an older lycoming 0320 and I am planning on buying the
alternator locally (lifetime waranty) I was planning on buying the
brackets and plug from vans, but I don't know if the 60amp alt is boss mount
or case mount anyone have any info on this ? just want to make sure I have enough..

thanks in advance..

Danny..
 
Wait

Boss or case mount is a function of the engine and engine only not the alternator.

Wait to buy your engine. The older engines (more than 20-25 years old) will not have the boss (flat pad with threaded holes) and requires you to mount the alternator off the bolts that holds the case halves together. The Boss mount is the better mount by far.

Electronics do not take much electricity. The high current drain items are landing lights, nav lights, strobe lights, some electronic ignitions, fuel pump, flap motor, comm radio during transmit and transponder. I assume you are going to have night capability (lights)? It is a simple matter of adding all the items up to determine your critical load requirement (night approach).

When you talk 35 amp I assume you are talking about Van's 35 amp alternator with external regulator. I suggest you avoid it. From what you are telling me you will be up well over 20 amps pushing +30 amps or more. A 35-amp alternator will be hard pushed. Also that 35-amp alternator is of an old design with an external fan that Van does not supply. The newer small case ND alternators (40-55 amps) have dual internal fans and are much more reliable. (Van's 35 amp is a ND alternator but of older design with an external fan that Van leaves off, which is not a great idea from a heat stand point. These alternators last about 100-300 hours max ). Van only sells the 60 amp newer ND alternator and does not sell the newer small ND alternator, which is what I suggest.

A 40-55 amp ND alternators are in a small frame package. When you go to 60 amps you go to a larger heavier alternator. You can't size your alternator or determine your alternator size until you buy your engine and finalize all the items in you planes electrical system. You may need a 60 amp alternator, I don't know. The idea of building is keeping it light, so if you can save a few pounds with a lighter alternator than do that. If you need the higher amp capacity than you need the larger alternator. You will have to size it.

Good luck, but it sounds like you are a ways out from buying an alternator. I also have a good piece of advice. Buy a new alternator. You can buy them off of eBay sometimes or from large auto electric supply houses (not auto zone). Rebuilt ones are OK and do have a warranty, but they are not like a brand new ND alternator. If you shop around it is no more than a rebuild. New 60 amp ND alternators are harder to buy new, so if you go 40-55 amp ND you should buy new.

Internal voltage regulated alternators like the New ND have internal OV protection. The theory is a rare failure (in theory only) that is unlikely to happen will cause a runaway voltage condition. There are no documented cases to prove this and only urban legend and stories with no facts. Some will tell you with religious fervor that you SHOULD not, MUST not, and cannot use an internally regulated alternator with out something called a crow bar (OV protection added on top the alternators internal OV protection). The chance of an OV problem, with a new ND alternator, is slim to none and you don?t need a crow bar, which can cause more problems than solve. If some one says you needed it, make them prove that there is a problem, other than a friend of a friend said he had an OV problem with a ND alternator. When you can track these claims down it turns out to be a Cessna with an old fashion external voltage regulated alternator. ND alternators have had very few problems. The problems they have had are small and not the massive over voltage condition melt downs that is falsely rumored that can or have occurred. Put a (CB) Circuit breaker on the output lead of the alternator (called the B-lead). Put this B-lead (CB) in your panel; if you have an indication of Hi or Low volts you can pull the CB to protect the system manually. You should always have a Hi/Lo volt idiot light or warning of some kind.

Keep it simple, keep it light, stick to the plans. G


PS
HINT: you should try to have your alternator load never continuously run at more than 50% of it's rated capacity (e.g., cruise night condition) and not more than approx 75% of it's max load (night approach). The reason is heat. The less heat the better the reliability. You put any alternator in and run it at 100% of its rated capacity for long periods it will fail earlier. My max continuous load is about 27 amps night cruise, day cruise 9.3 amps. My peak intermittent load is 32 amps for night t/o and approach. I have a 45-amp small frame ND alternator with internal VR and fans and no other OV devices.
 
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thanks

I have my motor already, I just didn't know about the pad for it, we should be putting the engine together tomorrow night, all the parts have been done at eci its an older 0320 so I suppose I can't use a boss mount.. but I will investigate that more today.. I suppose the 50 amp unit you recommended will cover what I am doing.. I don't plan on flying at night but i have the lighting installed already.. I was mostly trying to figure out brackets and
plugs for now.. do you have source for new alternators ?




Danny..
 
Hi All,

Sorry for "tagging along" on this thread, but felt the need to learn...

I'm a fairly new RV8 owner (Denver Area). I have the "Super Quick Build" RV8"...hehe yeah, I cheated and bought a flying "8"... Wanted to build, but I travel too much, and would rather be flying than building in what little spare time I have right now... Will definitely build in the future though... Anyway...

My plane (IO-360A1A) has the Van's 35 amp alternator with the external voltage regulator...There is a fresh air tube from the front of the cowl inlet to alternator... It's working fine so far and the plane has about 180 hours on it, however, I've heard more than once including this thread that there are better options out there for alternators... So, if/when its time to replace it, I'd like to have other options lined up.

Gmcjetpilot, you mentioned the Van's higher amp alternator... Do you know if it mounts up the same as the Van's smaller alternator I have now, and is it physically any larger? I'd like to find a bolt on replacement that has higher amperage, but doesn't take up any more room physically than the one I currently have (dont want to have to modify anything (cowl / mount, etc if I dont have to)...

Appreciate the help...

Godspeed / Danny... Congrats on your project so far!

Blue Skies!
 
Not sure about the brackets

You know you alternator may go a while. If you yo go the auto parts store if it pukes; they cost $16 or so with trade in, so you can't go wrong. The 60amp ND alternator is large dia and depth. I would suggest the smaller alternator that is typical of a 1889 Suzuki Samurai. Van does not sell this. (see picture below). Converting from external regulator to internal will be a no brainer. Brackets are easy to mod or fab. Write me if you have a problem: [email protected]

Keep flying for now and enjoy. If you are flying local, no biggie if the thing punks out on you.

http://www.wai-wetherill.com/images/360/1-1228-01ND-1.jpg

Alternator - Nippondenso IR/IF
55 Amp, 12 Volt, CW, 1-Groove Pulley

Used On:
(1988-87) Chevrolet Sprint 1.0L
(1995-86) Suzuki Samurai 1.3L
(1989) Suzuki Sidekick 1.3L
Replaces:
Nippondenso 100211-141, 100211-155, 100211-407
Lester Nos:
14684


Cheers G
 
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gmcjetpilot said:
The 60amp ND alternator is large dia and depth. I would suggest the smaller alternator that is typical of a 1889 Suzuki Samurai. Van does not sell this.

My Van's 60 amp alternator is 4" in diameter & 4 1/2" depth excluding the pully. I always figured it was rather small compared to other alternators of this amperage rating. It also leaves enough room, to put my hand between it, and the RV6A's cowl. 1-1/4" or so.

Is the Suzuki that much smaller?

L.Adamson
 
Yes just a bit smaller

L.Adamson said:
My Van's 60 amp alternator is 4" in diameter & 4 1/2" depth excluding the pulley. I always figured it was rather small compared to other alternators of this amperage rating. It also leaves enough room, to put my hand between it, and the RV6A's cowl. 1-1/4" or so.

Is the Suzuki that much smaller?

L.Adamson
Yes sir it is, ND 40 amp alternator is smaller than the 60amp and 2.4 lbs lighter. They are about the same length but the 40 amp has a smaller dia.

*ND 40 amp weighs 6.1 lbs,
Dia 3.9", total length 5.17" (back of case to center of V-pulley)
5.42" mount lug hole to adjustment arm threaded hole (ear to ear)
http://www.bandcspecialty.com/L-40Y.jpg
http://www.bandcspecialty.com/L40outlineREVA.pdf


*Van's ND 60 amp weighs 8.5lbs,
Dia 4.6", total length 5.38" (back of case to center of V-pulley)
6.46" mount lug hole to adjustment arm threaded hole (ear to ear)
http://www.bandcspecialty.com/L-60R.jpg
http://www.bandcspecialty.com/L60outlineREVB.pdf

You are correct the 60 amp is a very powerful small alternator as all ND alternators. In fact the 60 amp frame (size) can go up to 80-90 amps (and higher?). The 40amp is real tiny and light and comes in 35-55 amp sizes. Most of the applications for the small ND are for industrial equipment like forklifts & tractors. The car application is the Suzuki, Geo Metro, Chev Sprint. The eairlier years have the single goove pulley.

G


*This info off of B&C web site for their modified alternators, but the size and weights are about correct for a stock alternator; the regulator weight is small.
 
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