Alternate Oshkosh Arrival

[MED]

I have flown into Oshkosh more than a dozen times, and the arrival route seems to be getting riskier and is definitely more crowded. I wonder if “they” (EAA and FAA) would consider having 2 different arrival routes - one for 9/27 and a different one for 18/36. The 9/27 arrival could follow the current route, but the 18/36 route would be completely separate, perhaps following the Western side of beautiful Lake Winnebago. With the 18/36 arrivals already stopping before the control tower, separating traffic at the airport would be no different than now, but the congestion along the arrival route(s) would automatically be significantly reduced. Pilots could self-select their preferred runway depending on where they would like to park. In my opinion, the current arrival congestion needs to somehow be addressed.

 

[Webb]

3 altitude speed arrivals would be nice. 70 knots, 100 knots, 130 knots.

Currently 90 would be fine except if folks would go 90.

 

[Kyle Boatright]

The thing the current arrival allows is for the people at Fisk to send aircraft to alternate runways to keep any particular runway from getting slammed or to mitigate spacing issues.

You don’t get a last opportunity to fix spacing issues with dedicated lines. The only fix is “go around”.

 

[Brantel]

3 altitude speed arrivals would be nice. 70 knots, 100 knots, 130 knots.

Currently 90 would be fine except if folks would go 90.

As long as those three speeds don’t include descending down into other traffic blind, I agree!

 

[Ed_Wischmeyer]

I've known the folks who work the arrival issues for maybe 20 years now, and have made suggestions to them from time to time. I have as yet to think up something that they haven't thought of, and many of my suggestions would not work because of some small issue I'd not considered.

I'm not saying to not think about things, but I am saying, the arrival guys have earned my full confidence and respect. I don't say that about very many people.

 

[MIKE JG]

How about one big mass arrival of Vans aircraft, say from noon till 6pm on Sunday....

Seems to be the easiest way to get to OSH these days, join a mass type arrival.

 

[rockwoodrv9]

I would love to fly into AV, but dont think I will. I am a 250 hour pilot and about half of that in my 9A. I practice 90, 80, and 70 knot flying and can do it reasonably well. I agree with Brantel. I am not willing to risk someone not following the rules and causing a problem.

Im not sure FLD is much better. If I fly over I may pick an airport not as crazy. I dont know what the answer is. Maybe a reserved time such as the group people have.

 

[Auburntsts]

I would love to fly into AV, but dont think I will. I am a 250 hour pilot and about half of that in my 9A. I practice 90, 80, and 70 knot flying and can do it reasonably well. I agree with Brantel. I am not willing to risk someone not following the rules and causing a problem.

Im not sure FLD is much better. If I fly over I may pick an airport not as crazy. I dont know what the answer is. Maybe a reserved time such as the group people have.

I hope at some point you reevaluate your decision and fly in at least once, but I do understand your reluctance and completely respect it. However, a lot of the arrival shenanigans can be avoided simply by scheduling around the high arrival dates and times. Truth in lending and at the expense of sounding hypocritical, although I’ve flown the VFR arrival I don't anymore for the reasons listed. Instead, I choose to come in IFR which I think is easier and safer.

 

[plehrke]

The arrival doesn’t work well when unexpected things happens like weather, runway/s closed, or this year’s Canadian smoke causing a ridiculous 2-5 mile in trail spacing.
I have flown into OSH several times but much prefer flying into fond a lac or Appleton.

 

[jliltd]

Can't really separate incoming VFR traffic into two lines based on runways as the VFR approach controllers (FISK) are coordinating with tower to balance traffic between both sets of runways. They do this on the fly. If runway is pre-determined by separate lines then one of the most valuable tools the controllers have is removed. Plus, a second line along the Western shore of Lake Winnebago would place it on top of the warbird arrival path.

As far as multiple altitudes based on speed, remember that all traffic from all altitudes have to merge to the same lower altitude with a descent beginning at FISK. So the responsibility for separation is on the higher faster aircraft descending into the lower slower traffic. Since that higher traffic is already faster it needs to slow down in the descent which is not the normal order of things for many people. Many pilots drop their nose instead of setting up a nose up power priority descent. If raising the nose in the descent is needed that can limit forward visibility. It's a catch 22. This high to low transition to pattern is one of the more safety critical items in the approach procedure and is the reason the published procedure strongly suggests aircraft fly the lower 90 knot Ripon approach if at all possible. Adding a third altitude level and third speed into the mix would more than double the safety risk during this vertical merge into the pattern. More than likely exponentially. I get a lot of push back when I encourage RVs to fly the 90 knot standard approach which all RVs are capable of doing. From a safety standpoint. But in the end it is the pilot's choice as PIC and I respect that. I will always fly the standard 90 knot approach all the while hoping the faster descending traffic doesn't whammo somebody ahead of them. A third altitude and speed could raise the vertical merge risk to an untenable level.

 

[RV6_flyer]

There are already 3 arrival routes when you count Appleton and Fond du Lac and more are NOT needed.

IF you do not want to follow the NOTICE to fly into and out of Oshkosh (KOSH), then you have Appleton and Fond du Lac with ground transportation to Oshkosh AirVenture.

Getting enough ATC people is already a problem. FAA pulls people from many facilities to be able to do their part. The extra ATC people just to not exist.