Yes on all fuel lines.
Oil lines optional in my opinion.
My oil lines are not fire sleeved.
Yes, that is the plan as of now.
I recommend firesleeving both the flexible fuel AND oil lines. Both are important. If you have a FWF fuel fire in flight you can turn off the fuel at the selector and possibly starve the fire ....not so with an oil fire. Even if you've killed the engine, if the prop continues to windmill the engine will continue pumping out oil to feed the fire. You just can't turn the oil supply off in the air. And oil fires produce more smoke than fuel fires and it will most probably be the smoke coming back through the firewall that will incapacitate you in flight before the fire does.
That's a new one. I have never heard that before.Sorry but the purpose of the fire sleeve is not to protect but to soak up fuel if a line leaks. The inner white cloth absorbs fuel in case a line leaks and prevents it from running lose in the engine compartment and catching on fire.
So yes on all fuel lines including around the RedBox.
Sorry but the purpose of the fire sleeve is not to protect but to soak up fuel if a line leaks. The inner white cloth absorbs fuel in case a line leaks and prevents it from running lose in the engine compartment and catching on fire.
although i firesleeved my fuel lines i talked to someone who made a pretty good case not to. he said inspection is way better and if you are looking you will catch lines that are beginning to be not perfect rather than out of sight, out of mind. he said if a fire starts you are to be shutting off fuel supply immediately and the few feet of rubber fuel line burning will not contribute anything to the way bigger problems you have going on.
PER YOUR REQUEST TO EXPLAIN FURTHER
My A&P/IA for my Cherokee told me this. He has 40,000 hours in cockpit and a lifetime of A&P work. His father got his license in 1916, barely after the Wright Brothers.
It is logical. He says the most likely scenario is leaky fitting or line crack and fuel needs to be souped up, rather than dripping around. Maybe there are other functions. But fuel hoses have stainless steel mesh with conductive lining. Do they need abrasion protection? Static protection? Aging protection? Really?
Leaking fuel needs to be treated. Leaking fuel needs to be kept from igniting. Thus fire sleeve. When fuel leaks then it needs to be protected from igniting. Sleeve soaks it up and protects the fuel fluid from ignition sources. And so I suppose you can think of the pyro resistant silicone rubber cover as protecting the line from heat, but that isn't necessary until there is a leak. So what is the sleeve doing? It is protecting the leaking fuel from being ignited by soaking it up to prevent dripping and keeping heat away from it. It is not protecting a stainless wrapped, conductive teflon line.
Point is, when do you need fire sleeve? When the potential for a leak to ignite is a potential? Is the potential to ignite exist in the cabin? No. So we don't use it. But could fuel touch something hot in the engine compartment? Yes, so we use it there to prevent fuel from ignition heat source.
If fuel lines/fittings never leaked you wouldn't need fire sleeve.
Are stainless braided hoses not considered to be adequately protected for fire? I was going to put fire sleeve on the fuel lines just to make them less susceptible to vapor lock and leave the oil lines bare.
BTW, ACS has fire sleeve for about double what you pay at Summit Racing.
FWIW, I just completed a little internet research and looked up a number of aerospace fire sleeve manufacturers and all of the product descriptions focused on their ability to withstand heat:
I also took a look at TSO-C53a, Fuel And Engine Oil System Hose Assemblies, and TSO-C75, Hydraulic Hose Assemblies, and it's clear to me the primary purpose of fire sleeve is to protect hoses from excessive heat. YMMV.....
I have my own personal protocol for engine compartment fires. Shut off the fuel shutoff, the engine will quickly consume any fuel remaining in the carb. If the fuel line is compromised, the fuel line contains a relatively small amount of fuel which is unlikely to do serious damage if the fuel valve is quickly shut off.
If fuel lines/fittings never leaked you wouldn't need fire sleeve.
I have my own personal protocol for engine compartment fires. Shut off the fuel shutoff, the engine will quickly consume any fuel remaining in the carb. If the fuel line is compromised, the fuel line contains a relatively small amount of fuel which is unlikely to do serious damage if the fuel valve is quickly shut off.
One more attempt.
Fire sleeve will stop that fuel spray and turn it to drops and or absorb it so it is not spraying. Fuel in the lines is under pressure. If it leaks it sprays. Fire sleeve stops the spray. Yes it does protect hose from heat but Teflon is already rated to 1500F.
If an oil line is compromised and feeding the fire then turning off the fuel selector will probably not produce a positive outcome. Even if the engine is starved of fuel and quits, a windmilling prop in flight will continue to pump oil and feed the fire. That is why firesleeving oil lines is important.
In the presence of a fire, which component is likely to burn through first: the retatively high mass stainless steel braided hose, or the paper thin aluminum oil cooler?
Not saying firesleeve on the oil lines is a bad idea, but just how much protection do you really gain? Oil lines are often nowhere near the reach of a leaking exhaust, so what failure scenario do they protect against?
Flightlines (and a bunch of other suppliers too) offer integral firesleeve hose. Just outfit everything with it and move on. It's tough, reduced diameter, and cleans easily.
https://nebula.wsimg.com/5834e2f258...49BAE85D2FD63C051&disposition=0&alloworigin=1
It's an interesting point. But personally I think I'd be more worried about Vans' "paper thin" aluminium heater box mounted on the firewall than the oil cooler. That's why I upgraded mine to stainless steel.
Having said that, my guess is that in a serious FWF fire unprotected oil hoses will be breached much quicker than the oil cooler. Teflon hoses are the most fire resistant and they melt at 620F. The aluminium oil cooler will start to melt at 1218F.
In the end firesleeving fuel and oil hoses just buys you a little bit of time. You can buy the hoses with firesleeve on them but it's easy and quite inexpensive to do it yourself. In my mind it's just not an area where it makes sense to try and save a few paltry dollars.
Maybe we need a side by side test.
During a fire that would melt the aluminum heater box, I think the heat would warp the stainless heater box and seal that it would also become useless in keeping smoke and gasses out of the cockpit.
Maybe we need a side by side test.
Interesting to note that aluminum melts so fast. Would the SS firewall be of any real help in an engine fire, or a fire anywhere north of the firewall? I only ask as there is a lot of aluminum up there. How long before the entire cowl area melts?
....and stupid materials on the cabin side of the firewall, which forms a very effective flame transfer system.
....and stupid materials on the cabin side of the firewall, which forms a very effective flame transfer system.
Firefighters call cushion foam "solid gasoline". LINK
Burning foam gives off deadly cyanide gas and carbon monoxide.
Very compelling argument against its use for furniture, or seats in large aircraft where you could be trying to escape the area, but in the context of an RV, if the seat cushion you are sitting on is burning and producing lethal gases, I think you are probably already out of luck anyway.