Brantel

Brantel

Well Known Member
Better than I was expecting, honestly

  • Hartzell propellers: 3% increase to the original order price. (Due to special accommodations made by Hartzell, Van’s was able to keep this increase to a minimum.)
  • Sensenich propellers: 6% increase to the original order price.
  • MT propellers: 6% increase to the original order price.
  • RV-12/12iS Avionics Kits: 6% increase to the original order price.
  • RV-12/12iS Powerplant Kits: 6% increase to the original order price.
  • Lycoming: either a 12% increase to the original order price, or 2024 pricing, whichever is lower.
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Brantel said:
Me too especially for the Rotax and Avionics.
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Agree. Personally, I'll hit reorder on this instantaneously when I get the offer (-12 Rotax).

I don't have avionics actually ordered yet, I wonder if that 6% is what the new order pricing will be as well or if this is only for existing orders
 
mweidman said:
Agree. Personally, I'll hit reorder on this instantaneously when I get the offer (-12 Rotax).

I don't have avionics actually ordered yet, I wonder if that 6% is what the new order pricing will be as well or if this is only for existing orders
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Will be essentially the same percentage increase for new orders on the RV-12iS avionics and powerplant kits.
 
greghughespdx said:
You beat me to it, Brian. :)

We expect to be able to send the actual links to the portal with the modified orders in the next few days. There are a lot of orders to look at and get set up.

Thanks, everyone.
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Hey Greg, couple of questions. How will the bundle price work if I ordered the bundle but only received the prop so far…. Will the new 2024 price be discounted $1,000? Also is what is on the the website currently when you do the order form, the current 2024 price??
Thank you
 
Brantel said:
Me too especially for the Rotax and Avionics.

It’s a miracle that Hartzell is apparently honoring old pricing and the increase is only 3%! I guess they know their competition in this experimental market is strong!
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Hartzell is a strong partner and was (as always) great to work with on pricing and helping make it work for everyone in this unfortunate situation.
 
JeremyL said:
Hey Greg, couple of questions. How will the bundle price work if I ordered the bundle but only received the prop so far…. Will the new 2024 price be discounted $1,000? Also is what is on the the website currently when you do the order form, the current 2024 price??
Thank you
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As long as you have both the prop and the engine ordered together, the Lycoming engine is discounted by $1000. That bundle discount is still available, and if you have an engine already on order that bundle discount will still be applied. And the engine and propeller prices shown on the order forms on the Van's web site, as of today, are the January 2024 prices (subject to change of course, as always). Does that answer your question?
 
greghughespdx said:
As long as you have both the prop and the engine ordered together, the Lycoming engine is discounted by $1000. That bundle discount is still available, and if you have an engine already on order that bundle discount will still be applied. And the engine and propeller prices shown on the order forms on the Van's web site, as of today, are the January 2024 prices (subject to change of course, as always). Does that answer your question?
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Yes it does, as I understand your reply. The bundled price will be honored and the current form is the current (subject to change) price.
Thank you Greg!
 
greghughespdx said:
… the engine and propeller prices shown on the order forms on the Van's web site, as of today, are the January 2024 prices (subject to change of course, as always). Does that answer your question?
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Just to clarify for my Lycoming order- take my most recent Pre-BK invoice price compared to the price that is posted on the website today- then evaluate a 12% increase to my original most-recent invoice total VS todays pricing and I’ll pay whichever is lower. Just making sure I have it straight!

Patrick
 
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Pdp7427 said:
Just to clarify for my Lycoming order- take my most recent Pre-BK invoice price compared to the price that is posted on the website today- compare a 12% increase to my original most-recent invoice total VS todays pricing and I’ll pay whichever is lower. Just making sure I have it straight!

Patrick
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That’s how I’ve interpreted.
 
JMS1198 said:
Greg…the Rotax orders are subject to price increases from Rotax? If there is a price increase in February?
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The Rotax engine price increase happening for February was already taken into account when planning the new Powerplant Kit prices. So the price will not change again in February.
 
Greg.

Can you talk at all about Lycoming production slots? I ordered my TB engine in March of 22. Last I heard, I was in the next batch of engine to be built. I'm hoping that holds true. I'm ready to bolt it on, right away.
 
Pdp7427 said:
Just to clarify for my Lycoming order- take my most recent Pre-BK invoice price compared to the price that is posted on the website today- then evaluate a 12% increase to my original most-recent invoice total VS todays pricing and I’ll pay whichever is lower. Just making sure I have it straight!

Patrick
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Basically, yes. That should get you very close. Please don't be surprised by rounding errors or slight variations with options, etc.

When you get your official notice for the modified order, it will have the actual amounts for you to review, of course.
 
Greg…I called and emailed this very question and was unable to get an answer…how many COMPLETE Rotax engine kits are on hand? I understand weldments have been an issue in the past.
 
Thanks for the info.
Where will the open balance on an engine be paid to, Lycoming or Van's?
 
Any idea if we'll get an update on the timeline when the new information comes out? I know most of us who ordered in 2022 and were told expect 2023 delivery are low key expecting our dates to shift but getting a legitimate update would be appreciated before making a decision.
 
Greg H and all the Vans Team,

This is the best news I think we could hear. Even though I didn’t have an engine deposit at risk, I was watching very closely to see how this would be handled. This has given me faith in you all and confidence that there will be a path to finish my build. It seems worthy of a video announcement. I know this was a big cloud looming over the entire restructuring plan and now it is hopefully lifted. Hope to see more information.
 
Phil Sprang said:
Greg.

Can you talk at all about Lycoming production slots? I ordered my TB engine in March of 22. Last I heard, I was in the next batch of engine to be built. I'm hoping that holds true. I'm ready to bolt it on, right away.
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We don’t have clear info on production at this time. Van’s is still in discussions with Lycoming. We will need to communicate with Lycoming about cusomter reorders as they come in. I'm certain that Chris at Lycoming is going to be very busy, and there's no way he can have all the answers for everyone right now. The reorders will require planning. It will take some time to get clarity on backlog and schedules, but know that we all want to get shipments going as soon as possible.
 
My apologies if I am not excited about only being half whipped instead of full whipped. Even at 12% I can walk away from the entire purchase and buy elsewhere with same cost result and without the worry of what may happen with my money at Vans. I'll be better off claiming my 10k deposit as a creditor.
 
Greg,

Can you please provide some insight into why the Lycoming pricing went up 12% and the Rotex only 6%? As these are passthrough costs, its difficult to understand why the very high increase for the Lycoming engines. Don't take this the wrong way, but some are going to think this is simply a money grab. That the funding gap is being born on the shoulders of those with current orders. Put simply, if nothing has changed with the contracts between Vans and Lycoming, why should there be any price increase, and equally important, why 12% for Lycoming and 6% for Rotex?
 
Dan 57 said:
Thanks for the info.
Where will the open balance on an engine be paid to, Lycoming or Van's?
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To Van's. Once Lycoming notifies Van’s that your engine is entering production, we will contact you and request the balance due on the order. When you transmit funds to Van's, those funds will be held in trust in our customer deposit account until your product is ready to ship, at which time we use those funds to send the final payment to Lycoming. If you live in the USA< the engine ships direct from Lycoming to you. If you live internationally, Lycoming ships it to Van's and then we ship it to you. More details on deposits and payments are set forth in the modified purchase agreement you will receive when you accept and place your modified order.
 
They got better terms with ROTAX than Lycoming. The amount left over covers the mismanagement of the original deposit which is now the customer responsibility.
 
mstrauss said:
Greg,

Can you please provide some insight into why the Lycoming pricing went up 12% and the Rotex only 6%? As these are passthrough costs, its difficult to understand why the very high increase for the Lycoming engines. Don't take this the wrong way, but some are going to think this is simply a money grab. That the funding gap is being born on the shoulders of those with current orders. Put simply, if nothing has changed with the contracts between Vans and Lycoming, why should there be any price increase, and equally important, why 12% for Lycoming and 6% for Rotex?
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Not really realistic to ask. The rational is like going to be kept confidential since these are still competitive agreements.
 
maxmirot said:
Not really realistic to ask. The rational is like going to be kept confidential since these are still competitive agreements.
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Not realistic to ask, or not realistic to expect an answer... I think it is a very fair question given the Chapter 11, and nullification of the contracts. I am just trying to understand what changed, giving need for the new contracts. Did Lycoming force an increase, or is this all Vans, needing to fill the gap in funds, or some combination. Again, I think these are reasonable questions when being asked to pay a 12% increase.
 
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A question for Greg: I’ve been waiting to order my engine and prop and before the Chap 11 stuff happened the lead time on an O-360 was about 9 months. Are you able to give us an update on current lead times please.

Edit: Disregard the above question. Found the answer on Van’s website - 4 months for Hartzell prop, 9-18 months for Lycoming 4 cyl engines.
 
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JMS1198 said:
Greg…I called and emailed this very question and was unable to get an answer…how many COMPLETE Rotax engine kits are on hand? I understand weldments have been an issue in the past.
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After an extensive inventory in November (also the time to file) I thought this would be an easy question to answer…nobody at Vans was able to answer it…several calls and emails Later.
 
greghughespdx said:
You beat me to it, Brian. :)

We expect to be able to send the actual links to the portal with the modified orders in the next few days. There are a lot of orders to look at and get set up.

Thanks, everyone.
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Thanks Greg. Seems a fair deal all around. I didn’t take advantage of the prop bundle discount when I ordered my engine in Mar 2022. Can the prop discount be applied now if I order one? Seems this additional ask essentially constitutes a new order.
 
I just found the engine price list, My 540 YIO-540-D4A5(Y) is 68407.00 before the 1K discount. So about a 5K increase, that's about 8% in my case, Assuming the engine price list is current!
 
greghughespdx said:
To Van's. Once Lycoming notifies Van’s that your engine is entering production, we will contact you and request the balance due on the order. When you transmit funds to Van's, those funds will be held in trust in our customer deposit account until your product is ready to ship, at which time we use those funds to send the final payment to Lycoming. If you live in the USA< the engine ships direct from Lycoming to you. If you live internationally, Lycoming ships it to Van's and then we ship it to you. More details on deposits and payments are set forth in the modified purchase agreement you will receive when you accept and place your modified order.
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greghughespdx said:
Basically, yes. That should get you very close. Please don't be surprised by rounding errors or slight variations with options, etc.

When you get your official notice for the modified order, it will have the actual amounts for you to review, of course.
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which can change again before its ready to be shipped to you. I thought my price was locked in too.....
 
greghughespdx said:
It will be available by Monday afternoon.
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Greg, thank you for coming on here to clarify some of these questions. As you are obviously fully aware, a lot of folks have been on pins and needles awaiting this information release. I know you mentioned that vans is still currently in talks about the time frame of engine delivery and how that might be improved. Wanted to clarify, I submitted my order for a lycoming thunderbolt exp 119 back in Feb/March timeframe of 22 with an initial delivery date estimate of April 23. Now that we have to sign a new contract at the increased price, do we lose our original place in line with Lycoming? When I spoke to Chris Gayman in August or so, it sounded like Lycoming was almost to the batch of orders that I was a part of.

Is Lycoming honoring that place in the order lineup or do I get thrown to the back of the line with this new contract?

Again, appreciate you coming onto this thread to help with questions.
 
greghughespdx said:
We don’t have clear info on production at this time. Van’s is still in discussions with Lycoming. We will need to communicate with Lycoming about cusomter reorders as they come in. I'm certain that Chris at Lycoming is going to be very busy, and there's no way he can have all the answers for everyone right now. The reorders will require planning. It will take some time to get clarity on backlog and schedules, but know that we all want to get shipments going as soon as possible.
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Thanks Greg. Good to finally see the plan on engines.
With the long lead times on engine (Lyc.), will the final final price charged be the price in effect at time of order, or at the time of shipping?
 
If I'm understanding everything correctly, it sounds like the cheapest option with the fastest turn around for us with TB orders is to reject the offer, risk losing most of the deposit in the bankruptcy filing, and reorder a non TB. The alternative is 70k+ on the engine coupled with possibly another 2-3 year wait time.
 
Maybe I’ve missed this but where does the original 25% deposit fit into this? Does the 12% apply to the outstanding balance?
 
MHarris said:
Maybe I’ve missed this but where does the original 25% deposit fit into this? Does the 12% apply to the outstanding balance?
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If you accept and place your re-order, 100% of your original deposits (whether you had 25% of the order on deposit or more, up to 100%) will be applied toward your reorder at the new price.

A lot of numbers are being talked about... The 12% number is the maximum percentage increase (a cap, if you will) over the original price of Lycoming engine orders.
 
greghughespdx said:
If you accept and place your re-order, 100% of your original deposits (whether you had 25% of the order on deposit or more, up to 100%) will be applied toward your reorder at the new price.

A lot of numbers are being talked about... The 12% number is the maximum percentage increase (a cap, if you will) over the original price of Lycoming engine orders.
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Will we be permitted to switch from TB to non TB when the offers come out? I think I remember that was pitched the last round of price changes by Lycoming a few months ago.
 
didja said:
Greg, thank you for coming on here to clarify some of these questions. As you are obviously fully aware, a lot of folks have been on pins and needles awaiting this information release. I know you mentioned that vans is still currently in talks about the time frame of engine delivery and how that might be improved. Wanted to clarify, I submitted my order for a lycoming thunderbolt exp 119 back in Feb/March timeframe of 22 with an initial delivery date estimate of April 23. Now that we have to sign a new contract at the increased price, do we lose our original place in line with Lycoming? When I spoke to Chris Gayman in August or so, it sounded like Lycoming was almost to the batch of orders that I was a part of.

Is Lycoming honoring that place in the order lineup or do I get thrown to the back of the line with this new contract?

Again, appreciate you coming onto this thread to help with questions.
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This question is very pertinent. Vans needs to answer this sooner than later
 
Pdp7427 said:
Just to clarify for my Lycoming order- take my most recent Pre-BK invoice price compared to the price that is posted on the website today- then evaluate a 12% increase to my original most-recent invoice total VS todays pricing and I’ll pay whichever is lower. Just making sure I have it straight!

Patrick
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That's how I interpret it.
 
greghughespdx said:
If you accept and place your re-order, 100% of your original deposits (whether you had 25% of the order on deposit or more, up to 100%) will be applied toward your reorder at the new price.

A lot of numbers are being talked about... The 12% number is the maximum percentage increase (a cap, if you will) over the original price of Lycoming engine orders.
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I ordered my Thunderbolt IO-540 April of 2021. If I accept this deal how much longer will I need to wait for delivery?

Carl
 
greghughespdx said:
To Van's. Once Lycoming notifies Van’s that your engine is entering production, we will contact you and request the balance due on the order. When you transmit funds to Van's, those funds will be held in trust in our customer deposit account until your product is ready to ship, at which time we use those funds to send the final payment to Lycoming. If you live in the USA< the engine ships direct from Lycoming to you. If you live internationally, Lycoming ships it to Van's and then we ship it to you. More details on deposits and payments are set forth in the modified purchase agreement you will receive when you accept and place your modified order.
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Greg,
I was planning on picking up my engine directly from Lycoming instead of paying shipping (and sales taxes)- will that option still be available?
 
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