XP-IO-360 vertical draft install references?

Hi Guys,

I am looking for people and reference websites that have successfuly installed a XP-IO-360 vertical draft FI in a RV7 or RV9.

I am currently busy with mine and are constantly running into small items I wish I could see how others have resolved it.

Thank you in advance.
Kind Regards.
Rudi

Good morning, Rudi.

My -7A has the same engine with the SilverHawk EX FI system.

The biggest problems I've had so far are:

* The mixture arm swings downward which interferes with the airbox. I didn't know it at the time, but Precision Airmotive sells a servo with the arm reversed which eliminates this problem. You can't simply rotate the arm 180 degrees on the servo because the throw will be in the wrong direction. I know that some folks, including Scott Will have used a quadrant instead of venier cables which apparently eliminates this problem. I am modifying the FAB with a cutout to allow the mixture arm to swing downward.

* Prop Governor -- If you're installing a C/S prop and using the Van's-provided governor you'll need to rotate the arm around. This isn't specific for the XP-360 though as I believe pretty much everyone has to do this these days.

* Oil Output Fitting for the oil cooler. All I can say is holy #$%@! I spent more than two hours last night putting this thing on (45 degree fitting). I had to pull the right mag to do it. I'll need to recheck my timing before first engine start -- oh well. I would recommend people install this fitting before they hang the engine if they can. Better yet...I would call your engine builder and ask them if they can install it for you before they mount all of the accessories.

* Metered fuel line (servo to flow divider hose) has to go through the rear baffles and is close to the oil cooler if you're mounting the cooler on the baffles. I did put my cooler on the baffles and I think I can get the hose through there but it's going to be a challenge. I don't know if the Superior-supplied hose is going to work.

You can check out my stuff at my website (see signature). Please keep in touch. I have a LOT of questions myself about this stuff.

Hi Jamie Thanks,

Luckily got th right Fuel Servo with to correct arm, but then the XP supplied fuel hose don't fit from pump to servo. So I had one made up.

I see the supplied hose from servo to FI spyder currently fits, but will see when I fit the oil cooler and baffles. I hope I don't have to make another hose.

PS: Keep in touch, let me know what you find as you go along.

Any other refernces please add below.

Kind Regards
Rudi

Nothing to add except..

I have the SJ cowl, otherwise the same. I left the oil filter straight 90 degrees to engine. Write for phone number if you like; I'm retired and can take daytime calls.

RudiGreyling said:

Hi Guys,

I am looking for people and reference websites that have successfuly installed a XP-IO-360 vertical draft FI in a RV7 or RV9.

I am currently busy with mine and are constantly running into small items I wish I could see how others have resolved it.

Thank you in advance.
Kind Regards.
Rudi

Click to expand...

If you have the Silverhawk, be aware that you can bring your pressure hose out of the front, or the back. It is much easier to come out of the back, up through the back baffle, and then to the distributor than trying to snake around the front especially if you have cross over exhaust.

Jamie said:

* The mixture arm swings downward which interferes with the airbox. I didn't know it at the time, but Precision Airmotive sells a servo with the arm reversed which eliminates this problem. You can't simply rotate the arm 180 degrees on the servo because the throw will be in the wrong direction. Please keep in touch. I have a LOT of questions myself about this stuff.

Click to expand...

Is anyone aware of any builder who has actually purchased a Precision Silverhawk servo with the reversed arm as mentioned above and proved that it works OK with the vertical induction set-up.

Perhaps some-one can refer me to an RV website.

I'm very interested in this but I can't tell if it's a good idea or not.

Captain Avgas said:

Is anyone aware of any builder who has actually purchased a Precision Silverhawk servo with the reversed arm as mentioned above and proved that it works OK with the vertical induction set-up.

Perhaps some-one can refer me to an RV website.

I'm very interested in this but I can't tell if it's a good idea or not.

Click to expand...

Yes - I have that setup on my 6. I had clearance issues with the side of the cowl scoop but modified the mixture arm to make it work. It is very doable.

My TMX-I/O360 has the Silverhawk and to cure the problem of the arm hitting the FAB I made a 1" spacer using a commercial grade cutting board that is chemical & heat resistant. It goes between the bottom of the throttle body and the FAB and will give the clearance needed for the mixture arm. Simple and took only an hour to make.

I'll post some pics over the weekend if anyone is interested.

Capflyer said:

I'll post some pics over the weekend if anyone is interested.

Click to expand...

Please do!

Jekyll

Capflyer said:

My TMX-I/O360 has the Silverhawk and to cure the problem of the arm hitting the FAB I made a 1" spacer using a commercial grade cutting board that is chemical & heat resistant. It goes between the bottom of the throttle body and the FAB and will give the clearance needed for the mixture arm. Simple and took only an hour to make.

I'll post some pics over the weekend if anyone is interested.

Click to expand...

You must have the standard mixture control, not the reversed mixture control. The reverse mixture arm points up. This allows you to use the standard carb bracket from vans.

JonJay said:

You must have the standard mixture control, not the reversed mixture control. The reverse mixture arm points up. This allows you to use the standard carb bracket from vans.

Click to expand...

I wish that I knew about this one ahead of time. I could send this one back and get the other but after figuring on the spacer I could not justify the additional cost for an exchange.

It would be nice if Mattituck would take this into consideration when they sell the TMX knowing it's going into an RV, although I am very happy with their service and responsiveness to my calls.

So...those of you out there in RV land considering a great TMX engine from Mattituck, remember to order it with the reversed mixture control arm on the Silverhawk fuel injection.

Totally confused

JonJay said:

You must have the standard mixture control, not the reversed mixture control. The reverse mixture arm points up. This allows you to use the standard carb bracket from vans.

Click to expand...

I know that everyone is trying to be helpful here but I have to admit that I'm TOTALLY confused by all the conflicting advice on this thread regarding the Silverhawk FI and vertical induction. Gee it would be helpful if some-one posted a photo or referred to a website detail.

Let's recap the advice so far.

1. In Post # 2 Jamie says that with standard Precision Silverhawk FI the mixture arm hits the FAB. He says you CAN'T reverse the arm through 180 degrees or it will be acting in the wrong direction for the vernier control. He says you can buy a Silverhawk with the arm reversed "which eliminates the problem".

2. In Post #3 Rudi says he got "the right fuel servo" but doesn't say if this is the standard mix arm or the reverse mix arm.

3. In Post #7 JonJay says he has "that set up" and goes on to say he "modified the mix arm to make it work".

4. In Post #10 JonJay says "you MUST have the standard mix control, not the reversed mix control" in order to use the standard carb bracket from Vans.

Would it be possible to get some further clarification on this important issue that must affect many builders. I think it needs some pix or a more lengthy description of the situation.

Here is their website. They have pictures of RV set-ups along with a description on the unit with the reversed arm. The normal arm and the reversed arm are two different units.

http://precisionairmotive.com/

You will have to drill down to the Silverhawk section to see everything.

Hey Bob:

Here is my servo. Yes..I'm missing some hardware...this is just for the fit-up.



You can see the the arm if to the forward-most stop (full rich) and consequently my mixture venier cable is pushed all the way in. If I pull back I'm rotating the arm counter-clockwise...so the counter-clockwise-most stop is ICO. I *believe* this was the original way the servo was made but don't hold me to that. If the arm is reversed you have to use a different inlet port. I believe folks use the one on the top (you can see the cap safetied in the picture) but I'm not sure.

Also...I'm replacing the outlet fitting with a 45-degree one and bringing the metered hose around the back side of the sump.



EDIT: I see what Bob is saying now. There are TWO servos available. If you have my servo you can't simply rotate the arm. However, if you have Rudi's servo there's no need too. Mine is MAX CCW-> ICO whereas Rudi's is MAX CW->ICO. Hope that helps.

I will post some pics this weekend.
Reversed arm, shortened, fuel inlet pilot right side, and fuel outlet back. fits up great.

More pix...yummeee

JonJay said:

I will post some pics this weekend.
Reversed arm, shortened, fuel inlet pilot right side, and fuel outlet back. fits up great.

Click to expand...

That would be just great JonJay. Seeing Jamie Painter's pix was an enormous help and I'm sure yours will reveal all. I think we're creating the definitive archive thread here on the servo set-up for the FI vertical induction.

Next question. I recently ordered my FWF kit for my vertical induction IO-360 and I ordered the Vans O-360 FWF kit (carbie kit) as they recommended. After reading back through the archives I came to the conclusion that although the O-360 kit was the closest fit it was not perfect for the application and I needed to make some changes.

One of those changes was the deletion of the Throttle/Mix Bracket 360 part # VA-149-360-PC- KIT and its replacement with the Throttle/Mix Bracket IO Vertical part # VA-182-PC-KIT.

Would you be able to confirm what bracket you used with the reversed arm servo. Is it still the VA-182-PC-KIT.

With so many builders buying vertical induction FI engines (after all this is now virtually the defacto base model from Aerosport, Mattituck and Superior) you would think Vans would provide a complete FWF kit for this engine instead of making every builder reinvent the wheel. It's a bit disgraceful really. What they're saying is: If you don't buy the engine from us we don't care too much about you.

Spacer Pic

As promised, here is a picture of the spacer I made. The mixture arm on the oposite side is at it's most vertical down position. The spacer is two pieces of 1/2" material used for commercial cutting boards which is heat and chemical resistant. Probably the same thing as delrin only a whole bunch less expensive. I used high temp RTV between the two pieces and clamped them tight. The intake hole (can not be seen) is the same size as the fuel injection unit not the size of the hole in the FAB plate.

Capflyer said:

As promised, here is a picture of the spacer I made. The mixture arm on the oposite side is at it's most vertical down position. The spacer is two pieces of 1/2" material used for commercial cutting boards which is heat and chemical resistant. Probably the same thing as delrin only a whole bunch less expensive. I used high temp RTV between the two pieces and clamped them tight. The intake hole (can not be seen) is the same size as the fuel injection unit not the size of the hole in the FAB plate.

Click to expand...

Capflyer, thanks for the photo. Every photo tells another story and is much appreciated.

It could be a visual illusion but some of the safety wiring on your servo SEEMS to be wound too tight. There is a specification on the number of winds per inch in AC 43.13. Overwinding greatly increases the risk of the wire breaking.

But as I said it could just be the perspective.

Captain Avgas said:

Capflyer, thanks for the photo. Every photo tells another story and is much appreciated.

It could be a visual illusion but some of the safety wiring on your servo SEEMS to be wound too tight. There is a specification on the number of winds per inch in AC 43.13. Overwinding greatly increases the risk of the wire breaking.

But as I said it could just be the perspective.

Click to expand...

It came pre-wired from Mattituck but I'll certainly double check it. Thanks for the heads up.

Message for JonJay

JonJay said:

I will post some pics this weekend.
Reversed arm, shortened, fuel inlet pilot right side, and fuel outlet back. fits up great.

Click to expand...

JonJay, are you still intending to post some pix. I'm really interested in your reversed arm set-up.

Captain Avgas said:

JonJay, are you still intending to post some pix. I'm really interested in your reversed arm set-up.

Click to expand...

Sorry - I did not get to it this weekend and I have not been home since. I will try to get them posted this week.

Great

JonJay said:

Sorry - I did not get to it this weekend and I have not been home since. I will try to get them posted this week.

Click to expand...

That will be fantastic. I'm sure a number of builders will find it interesting...now and in the future. Perhaps a couple of different perspectives would help. I'd certainly also like to know what you did to modify your arm.

Incidentally, can you confirm what Vans throttle/mix bracket you need with the reversed arm as you have it. Is it the VA-182-PC-KIT.

How did anybody ever build an Experimental plane before the internet.

Cheers Bob

I also struggled with this and after looking at other installations finally came up with a solution. I have an RV-8 with a TMX-IO-360 and a the Precision Silverhawk EX servo with vertical draft and a traditional Vans cowling. Wish I had a pic to share with you, but I will try to descibe my solution.

My solution was a bit more complex and involved some trial and error to get it right. I couldn't find an arm that would work (called Precision), but maybe I wasn't persistent enough on that. If you can make that work, then that is the best way to go. But here was my approach.

The main modification has to do with the mounting plate for the FAB (the one that mounts to the servo itself). To summarize, I basically made my own mounting plate moving this as far to the right of the aircraft and away from the mixture arm as possible and in moving it to the right. This allows clearance on the arm, but that then creates an alignment problem with the cowling inlet. So, the FAB unit was rotated back to the left of the aircraft so the forward inlet would line up with the cowling inlet.

To make it easier to visualize, let's reverse that. Looking at the engine from the front of the aircraft, you make a mounting plate so that the entire FAB is ultimately mounted as far to the left of the engine front to clear the mixture arm and then rotated back to the right of the engine front to meet the cowling inlet.

Another note - the center line of the aircraft and the center line of the servo DO NOT line up - check that out as well before you dig too far into your install - after all it ultimately has to fit up to the cowling.

After making a number of educated guesses on the best measurements and using much easier to cut 025 templates, I ultimately made a new mounting plate.

Now this gets further complicated because to make all of that work, you have to move it so far to the right of the aircraft that now aft left mounting bolt on the plate will interfere with the air filter itself. This requires a small modification to the air filter - much like is done for the carb installation, but far less invasive. It just involves taking a bolt-head sized area out of the filter's rubber gasket edging.

Also, I added additional positioning clips INSIDE the filter area, just like there are outside the filter area. This was to ensure - and this is critical for safety - that the filter does not slide back over the inlet to the servo itself. This could possibly cause a catostrophic problem. Because this is moved to the right, the filter is right up on the edge of the servo inlet with only a few 1/16ths of space, so it is key that there be something to restrain at least that side of the filter from moving further inward.

Hope this helps. Not the easiest solution, but I have 190 hours on it and it has proven very reliable. The only thing that I ever worry about are those internal clips (since they are inside the filter area and if one vibrated loose, well... that wouldn't be good), so I inspect them for cracks or loose rivets at every oil change as a precaution.

Hope this provides you with yet another option.

Good luck with your install.

-Rob

It would be nice if Mattituck would take this into consideration when they sell the TMX knowing it's going into an RV, although I am very happy with their service and responsiveness to my calls.

Click to expand...

Mike, We Strive to make the engine exactly what you would get from the OEM. The Servo setup and orientation, that we use, is what you would get if you purchased a new IO-360-B1B from Lycoming. The spacer between the servo and the top air box plate is the best solution because of a couple of factors. First, it allows the stock mixture control to function without modification. Secondly and more importantly, in positions the air box in the nacelle and cowling in the same place it was designed to go. The Carburetor, used on the O-360, is actually taller then the fuel servo, used on the IO-360 and adding the spacer at the bottom of the servo makes the servo the same height as the carburetor. This in turn positions the mounting flange of the air box in the same place it would be if mounting a carburetor. The cowling and air box was originally designed with the O-360A1A in mind. Due to that fact the spacer should be used, even if a reverse mixture control is employed.
So to summarize, the reverse control isn't necessary with the spacer but using the reverse control setup doesn't prevent the spacer form being necessary, to make everything fit the way is was designed to.
So there are obviously many ways to fix the mixture arm rotation situation, reverse arm on the servo, reposition the air box, shorten the mixture arm, use a bell crank on the cockpit control the cockpit to name a few, but in our opinion the best is to install the spacer (because that makes everything fit as it was designed) and that is the way we configure the engine.
We can supply a reverse mixture arm for anyone, but once this is explained, most go with the standard arm and spacer.
Good Luck,
Mahlon
"The opinions and information provided in this and all of my posts are hopefully helpful to you. Please use the information provided responsibly and at your own risk."

mahlon_r said:

Mike, We Strive to make the engine exactly what you would get from the OEM. The Servo setup and orientation, that we use, is what you would get if you purchased a new IO-360-B1B from Lycoming. The spacer between the servo and the top air box plate is the best solution because of a couple of factors. First, it allows the stock mixture control to function without modification. Secondly and more importantly, in positions the air box in the nacelle and cowling in the same place it was designed to go. The Carburetor, used on the O-360, is actually taller then the fuel servo, used on the IO-360 and adding the spacer at the bottom of the servo makes the servo the same height as the carburetor. This in turn positions the mounting flange of the air box in the same place it would be if mounting a carburetor. The cowling and air box was originally designed with the O-360A1A in mind. Due to that fact the spacer should be used, even if a reverse mixture control is employed.
So to summarize, the reverse control isn't necessary with the spacer but using the reverse control setup doesn't prevent the spacer form being necessary, to make everything fit the way is was designed to.
So there are obviously many ways to fix the mixture arm rotation situation, reverse arm on the servo, reposition the air box, shorten the mixture arm, use a bell crank on the cockpit control the cockpit to name a few, but in our opinion the best is to install the spacer (because that makes everything fit as it was designed) and that is the way we configure the engine.
We can supply a reverse mixture arm for anyone, but once this is explained, most go with the standard arm and spacer.
Good Luck,
Mahlon
"The opinions and information provided in this and all of my posts are hopefully helpful to you. Please use the information provided responsibly and at your own risk."

Click to expand...

There is not enough side clearance on a standard RV6 cowling, with the snoot, to use the spacer and standard arm/rotation. It hits the side of the snoot due to the servo being offset. Maybe different for the RV7 cowling.

JonJay said:

There is not enough side clearance on a standard RV6 cowling, with the snoot, to use the spacer and standard arm/rotation. It hits the side of the snoot due to the servo being offset. Maybe different for the RV7 cowling.

Click to expand...

I agree - had the same problem in my RV-8. Although I cured the initial problem with offseting the FAB and rotating it back, the servo is still in the same place and no matter what on the RV-8 with the standard arm, you will hit the cowling in the mid portion of the snoot where it attaches/intersects with the main cowling.

Forgot to mention that in my post last night. So I cut a teardrop hole in the cowling and and faired it back in with a little teardrop bump of fiberglass. Easy fix and nobody notices it but me.

Still the carb installation is a heckofalot easier than the fuel servo, but for that extra grief we get a much more advanced fuel metering system.

Rob

mahlon_r said:

So to summarize, the reverse control isn't necessary with the spacer but using the reverse control setup doesn't prevent the spacer form being necessary, to make everything fit the way is was designed to.
So there are obviously many ways to fix the mixture arm rotation situation, reverse arm on the servo, reposition the air box, shorten the mixture arm, use a bell crank on the cockpit control the cockpit to name a few, but in our opinion the best is to install the spacer (because that makes everything fit as it was designed) and that is the way we configure the engine.
We can supply a reverse mixture arm for anyone, but once this is explained, most go with the standard arm and spacer.

Click to expand...

Mahlon, does Mattituck sell the spacer, and do you know if the mix arm AND the FAB clears the standard Vans cowling for the RV7A with said spacer installed. Have had any feedback on this.

Cheers Bob

JonJay said:

Maybe different for the RV7 cowling.

Click to expand...

RV-7's use the -6 cowling, canopy and probably other things that I can't think of right now.

Pictures

I have the pics, but cant seem to find how to post them. I am sure it is simple, but....
So, I can email them to you, or someone can refer me to the instructions on how to post them in the forum.

JonJay said:

I have the pics, but cant seem to find how to post them. I am sure it is simple, but....
So, I can email them to you, or someone can refer me to the instructions on how to post them in the forum.

Click to expand...

JonJay go here to post images. It IS very easy.

http://www.imageshack.us/

Once in Imageshack browse your folders (BROWSE button in Imageshack) to locate the photo you want and then left double click on it to instal it in the Imageshack URL window.

Then hit the HOST IT button in Imageshack.

The pix will then be uploaded to Imageshack. Imageshack will then come back and offer you a number of different formats for the photo depending on where you want to post them. The different formats are simply represented by different Imageshack URL addresses. Try "Thumbnails for Forums (1)"

Simply copy and paste the URL the chosen address offered into your email posting.

View the message in PRINT PREVIEW on VansAirforce to see if you are happy with the result before you POST the message.

If you are doing it right you will have an alphanumeric URL address in your posting but you should have the equivalent photo in the preview.

Persevere because this is a good thing to be able to do.

Let us know how you go.

Cheers Bob

RudiGreyling said:

Hi Guys,

I am looking for people and reference websites that have successfuly installed a XP-IO-360 vertical draft FI in a RV7 or RV9.

I am currently busy with mine and are constantly running into small items I wish I could see how others have resolved it.

Thank you in advance.
Kind Regards.
Rudi

Click to expand...

I'm building an RV8, but I am installing the vertical draft injected engine. You can see pictures of the ongoing installation in the FF section of my website: http://rv8.gwevans.net.

-Geoff

Geoff said:

I'm building an RV8, but I am installing the vertical draft injected engine. You can see pictures of the ongoing installation in the FF section of my website: http://home.comcast.net/~n70ge.

-Geoff

Click to expand...

Thanks for the info Geoff...very helpful. I'd like to ask you a question.

I have just recieved my FWF kit for my RV7A. It was the O-360 CS kit which is the one recommended by Vans for vertical induction fuel injection.

In that kit there is the filtered air box subassembly (FAB). I am assuming this is the same FAB you get with the carburetted engine....and the same one you also received.

In the FAB assembly there was a stamped metal part number VA-131-Q which is described as a mixture arm recess.

The Vans instructions with the FAB have this to say about this part:

"On engines with a vertical induction fuel injection system the mixture arm will aim downwards for the correct throw direction. The mix arm will interfere with the left side of the FAB assembly which can be removed using the VA-131-Q recess."

Can you tell me why you chose to use a spacer instead of using the VA-131-Q recess provided by Vans.

Regards Bob

Cowl alignment

Captain Avgas said:

Thanks for the info Geoff...very helpful. I'd like to ask you a question.

I have just recieved my FWF kit for my RV7A. It was the O-360 CS kit which is the one recommended by Vans for vertical induction fuel injection.

In that kit there is the filtered air box subassembly (FAB). I am assuming this is the same FAB you get with the carburetted engine....and the same one you also received.

In the FAB assembly there was a stamped metal part number VA-131-Q which is described as a mixture arm recess.

The Vans instructions with the FAB have this to say about this part:

"On engines with a vertical induction fuel injection system the mixture arm will aim downwards for the correct throw direction. The mix arm will interfere with the left side of the FAB assembly which can be removed using the VA-131-Q recess."

Can you tell me why you chose to use a spacer instead of using the VA-131-Q recess provided by Vans.

Regards Bob

Click to expand...

Because without the spacer, the airbox won't align with the intake scoop on the cowl. That's because the Bendix injector servo is shorter than the carburetor. Here's what it looks like without the spacer:



With the spacer, it lines up perfectly. The spacer isn't necessary if you want to form the fiberglass extension of the intake scoop with a joggle in it. I just figured it was easier to make a spacer than to install the VA-131-Q and form the intake scoop with a joggle in it.

-Geoff

Geoff said:

I just figured it was easier to make a spacer than to install the VA-131-Q and form the intake scoop with a joggle in it. -Geoff

Click to expand...

Presumably that decision was made before you discovered that adding the spacer caused the FAB to conflict with the cowl on the mix side (causing you to fabricate a new mounting and offset the FAB).

In retrospect would you go the same way again...or use the VA-131-Q recess and joggle the air intake.

You said your father machined the spacer. If you'd had to have it made at commercial rates would that have influenced your decision....it looks like a pricey little one-off maching project to me.

Cheers Bob

Pics of modified arm

Good points

Captain Avgas said:

Presumably that decision was made before you discovered that adding the spacer caused the FAB to conflict with the cowl on the mix side (causing you to fabricate a new mounting and offset the FAB).

In retrospect would you go the same way again...or use the VA-131-Q recess and joggle the air intake.

You said your father machined the spacer. If you'd had to have it made at commercial rates would that have influenced your decision....it looks like a pricey little one-off maching project to me.

Cheers Bob

Click to expand...

The FAB would have conflicted with the cowl anyway, even without the spacer. The sides of the air scoop go up pretty high -- they're about level with the bottom of the mixture arm when it's in the vertical position. So even if I had used the VA-131-Q, I still would have needed to remake the mounting plate.

In retrospect I probably would have spent the extra money for a horizontal induction engine. There are lots of things in the FF kit that don't work out quite right in the vertical induction, fuel injected setup. Take the engine control cable mounting bracket, for example. On the RV-8, the thottle and mixture cables exit the bracket and aim directly at the engine mount. That's probably not true on a -7 or maybe not even on a -8A, but it's definitely less than desirable on the -8.

The other thing you could do is return the injector servo and replace it with the version that has throw reversed on the mixture arm and the arm pointed up. But in this setup, the mounting bracket for the mixture cable would have to be bent/modified, and the fuel inlet would have to be on the front of the servo instad of the left side of it.

He definitely made a nice spacer for me, but it doesn't have to be that complicated. Mahlon told me that "any material that is light and impervious to fuel would work."

There are a few other threads on here that talk about these issues. Check http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=12012 and http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=14392.

After reading those a while back, I came to the conclusion that many of the issues I experienced were related to the combination of vertical induction and a -8. The -7 has a different cowl, and perhaps that makes it work out a little better.

-Geoff

I received an email plus some pix from JonJay and he has given me permission to post them here so I am doing so for the assistance of others who may reference this thread in the future. JonJay has the modified reverse arm. The pix will be expanded if you click on them. Regards Bob

This is his email:

"The engine came from Aerosport Power with the reverse rotation. The standard arm was too long and stuck out too far so it would hit on the cowling scoop at the scoop to cowling interface. I simply cut the center section out of the standard offset arm to shorten it, same arm that is on the throttle, and tig welded it back together. I left enough offset in the arm so it would clear the hardware on the servo body. Precision has a ready made arm that might work, but they wanted $100 for it. I had this tig welded in a local shop for $10. I believe they reheat treated it as well, but no matter, there is very little force on this arm and a lot of steel there.
I think there are a lot of ways to skin this cat. This was easy and worked well for me. I still need to bend the throttle/mixture bracket down a bit to lessen the angle of the cable, but that is easily done. It is at its extreme position now and it is not bad.

You are welcome to post these as I have an airplane to finish and that is taking a priority today. I expect to fly in the next month or two.
Hope this helps."

I am getting the Superior IO-360 with Vertical Draft but with the Airflow Performance Fuel System... does any of this apply with that FI? Also, does anyone know of any other issues I should address at the time or ordering/building the engine rather than have to exchange or modify later?

WOW a lot of response...

Hi Guys,

Wow I started this thread and haven?t been around in a while, it has grown significantly.

Here is where I am at, with a couple of pictures below?
1)I got the arm that points the other way
2)I used the vans VA-182-PC bracket instead of the standard one that comes with the standard carb FW FWD setup.

What I noticed so far:
- The metered hose supplied by SuperiorAir going from the Throttle Body(TB) to the FI spider will work, but runs close to the exhaust, I decided I will put some additional fire sleeving on it for the section close to the Exhaust, because I don?t know how good the protection of STD brown hose is.
- The supplied hose from the Fuel Pump to the TB inlet will not work, it just runs too close to the control cables for my liking, and might cause chaffing. I decided to have a hose made up, a little longer. I will have to figure out how to support it for the last run between the engine mount and the TB inlet.

I have not tried my airbox or cowl on yet, so I don?t know what the alignment would be. I did fit the heat insulator between the Sump and the TB, you can see it is a brownish colour, between 3 supplied gaskets.

This is my first engine install so if you see something odd, let me know!

Will keep you guys posted?If you figure out something I haven?t yet please post below.

Kind Regards
Rudi

RudiGreyling said:

Hi Guys,
Wow I started this thread and haven?t been around in a while, it has grown significantly.
Here is where I am at, with a couple of pictures below?
1)I got the arm that points the other way
2)I used the vans VA-182-PC bracket instead of the standard one that comes with the standard carb FW FWD setup.

Click to expand...

Rudi, I see that JonJay had the same set-up as you and if I understand him correctly he had to make a couple of mods.
1. He had to modify the VA-182 bracket to get the mix cable in the correct orientation.
2. He had to modify the servo mix lever arm so that it would not hit the cowl.

For those 2 reasons I'm now not sure that having the servo mix arm facing upwards is the right way to go or not. I'm still confused.

It would be interesting if you were to temporarily fit your bottom cowl and see if there is a conflict with the mix lever arm.

It would also be interesting to see whether your cowl inlet opening is in alignment with the FAB. Some people say you need a spacer between the servo and the FAB to get good alignment...others say you don't. Once again I'm also confused on this point.

RudiGreyling said:

Hi Guys,

Wow I started this thread and haven?t been around in a while, it has grown significantly.

Here is where I am at, with a couple of pictures below?
1)I got the arm that points the other way
2)I used the vans VA-182-PC bracket instead of the standard one that comes with the standard carb FW FWD setup.

What I noticed so far:
- The metered hose supplied by SuperiorAir going from the Throttle Body(TB) to the FI spider will work, but runs close to the exhaust, I decided I will put some additional fire sleeving on it for the section close to the Exhaust, because I don?t know how good the protection of STD brown hose is.
- The supplied hose from the Fuel Pump to the TB inlet will not work, it just runs too close to the control cables for my liking, and might cause chaffing. I decided to have a hose made up, a little longer. I will have to figure out how to support it for the last run between the engine mount and the TB inlet.

I have not tried my airbox or cowl on yet, so I don?t know what the alignment would be. I did fit the heat insulator between the Sump and the TB, you can see it is a brownish colour, between 3 supplied gaskets.

This is my first engine install so if you see something odd, let me know!

Will keep you guys posted?If you figure out something I haven?t yet please post below.

Kind Regards
Rudi

Click to expand...

Not sure if the cowling has more clearance on the 9 than on my 6, but I did have to modify the arm. See previous post. In regard to the high pressure fuel line, I ran mine straight out of the back and up through the right back side of the baffle to the distributor. It stayed well clear of the exhaust and there is not a lot going on on the right side as the oil cooler lines are on the left but either side would work. (back side that is). It looks like you are coming out of the back but going up the side. I tried that but thought it was too close to the exhaust for my comfort. Straight out worked well. My airbox lined up well without any spacer. In fact, the spacer made the clearances worse when I tried it.
Modification to the VA-182 was simply bending the "tab" down where the mixture cable runs through to get a little shallower angle for the cable. Probably not necessary, but I felt better about it and it was very easy to manipulate.
Engine started last Saturday. Ran like a top. Inspection next week, with first flight hopefully on the 14th. Yahoo.

JonJay said:

Not sure if the cowling has more clearance on the 9 than on my 6, but I did have to modify the arm.

Click to expand...

JonJay, I think you mentioned that precision has an alternative mix arm that does not protrude out so far. Do you know the part number for that arm.

Also, it seems to me that you do not have any spacer either above or below the servo (is that right)...and yet your cowl inlet aligns with the FAB. The Precision servo is supposed to be 1" shorter than the carburettor it replaces so I don't know what to make of this. Others have definitely said that a spacer is required. Can you comment on this.

Regards Bob

Captain Avgas said:

JonJay, I think you mentioned that precision has an alternative mix arm that does not protrude out so far. Do you know the part number for that arm.

Also, it seems to me that you do not have any spacer either above or below the servo (is that right)...and yet your cowl inlet aligns with the FAB. The Precision servo is supposed to be 1" shorter than the carburettor it replaces so I don't know what to make of this. Others have definitely said that a spacer is required. Can you comment on this.

Regards Bob

Click to expand...

I called Precision and they helped with the part number, but I did not go that way. They don't sell direct and retail on the arm was $100 or so. I know a good tig welder who took care of the modification for me on the existing arm for $10 or so, I think I gave him $20 for the effort.
I am confused on the spacer comment too. I did not use a spacer and my airbox lined up about 3/16"-1/4" high, which from reading the instructions, is pretty common. You simply bend down the plate where it narrows and modify the airbox slightly by slitting it at the bend point and glassing over the slit. All of this is in the instructions. If I had used the 1" spacer, I would have been 3/4" out of line on the low side. Perhaps there are differences in 6, 8, 9 snoot locations? I can not comment on the difference in height of a servo or a standard carb or an ellison or?? I dont believe in the theory that you need the spacer above the servo to provide for "proper" airflow. My engine came prebuilt by Aerosport Power without it and they know what they are doing.
If you end up needing a spacer, I have a very nice 1" aluminum spacer sitting around. At any rate, you dont need to worry about it until after you get your cowling fitted. Then you will know exactly what to do with your airbox. The cowling will dictate what happens next.

HI Guys,

I can give some more feedback...I wanted to use most of the standard goodies from VAN's, so most of it is from the Standard F/W kit for the 0-360 also no fancy F/W penetration saddles etc etc.

1) I drilled the engine control cables in the firewall and the inside cover at your feet pretty close to the Vans RV7 0-360 Carb locations. I just had to watch out for the reinforcement plate for the FI Fuel supply. The only difference is that I swapped the use of the 'Carb Heat' hole for the Mixture cable and used the Micture Hole for the Alternate Air cable. Remember I got both the longer 50" cables for Throttle and Mix instead of the standard lenghts. They worked out fine as you will see later. PS Ignore the platenuts for the small Electric Pump they were installed before I knew I was going FI.


2) The Throttle lined up good, but the Mixture Cable did not see picture below, I got the VA-182-PC KIT THRTLE/MIX BRCKT IO 320/360 Vert. Induction instead of the standard Carb Bracket


3) By bending the bracket a little the alignment problem is solved.



4) Here you can see how I routed my hoses and cables..well so far so good ;-). I had to get a new fuel supply cable made since the Van's one did not fit, neither did the XP one. The High Pressure Metered Fuel hose to the FI spider is the XP supplied one. I juse added some additional firesleeve on it, cause it will sit close to the Exhaust.


Everyting is on temporary, I need to fit the cowl to see how it works out, stay tuned...

Kind Regards,
Rudi
PS: This is my first engine install, so use this info at your own risk, also if you see something wrong, email me...

RudiGreyling said:

HI Guys,

Everyting is on temporary, I need to fit the cowl to see how it works out, stay tuned...

Kind Regards,
Rudi

Click to expand...

We're standing by Rudi. It will be interesting to see whether your mix arm hits the cowl. Please advise.

Captain Avgas said:

We're standing by Rudi. It will be interesting to see whether your mix arm hits the cowl. Please advise.

Click to expand...

It hit on mine, but it was an easy fix to cut down that lever and have it tig welded or buy the ready made one from Precision for $100. Everything else you described is exactly what I did in regard to cable penetrations, hoses, and bending of the standard bracket. Your skinning that cat.
I am very glad I went with vertical induction and kept the classic scoop on my 6.
Four hours flying and it all works fine.

JonJay said:

It hit on mine, but it was an easy fix to cut down that lever and have it tig welded or buy the ready made one from Precision for $100. .

Click to expand...

JonJay, when I look at Rudi's photo shot from directly under the engine it shows that there is VERY little clearance between the throttle body and the mix cable "extender rod" with the standard mix lever installed. You have modified your mix lever arm to bring it in closer to the throttle body so I'm surprised that your mix cable extender rod does not hit the throttle body. How much clearance do you have.

Captain Avgas said:

JonJay, when I look at Rudi's photo shot from directly under the engine it shows that there is VERY little clearance between the throttle body and the mix cable "extender rod" with the standard mix lever installed. You have modified your mix lever arm to bring it in closer to the throttle body so I'm surprised that your mix cable extender rod does not hit the throttle body. How much clearance do you have.

Click to expand...

Hi Captain Afgas,

Ditto there is very little clearance maybe 1/4" between the TB and Mix Cable, with the bracket I got. It the arm need to change then I will have to change my bracket as well...if the arm comes closer to the TB then the Bracket holding the Mix cable have to go out further to compensate.

Anycase don't hold your breath for the Cowl, there are lot and lots of stuff to do before I get there, maybe a month or so.

Regards
Rudi

Hi Guys,

So OK it took a little more than one month to post an update...but here it is.

I got some cowl interfence, exactly like the guys like JonJay experienced. I am working with Superior to see how and if we can resolve, but being Oshkhosh time things are a bit slow as can be expected.

I'll keep you guys in the loop, so you can learn:

I got some interference and thought I could solve it by Re-clocking the arm a bit...
1) Photo 1 shows how I reclocked the arm 1 notch hoping to get more clearance, you can see my Green Sharpie Marking references, note also the shallow angle of the mix cable in the background at full open.


2) Photo 2 shows the arm and cable shallow angle, I am concerned about the cable jamming in the full open position, with that shallow angle.


3) Photo 3 shows the arm and how close it gets to the bottom cowl when the mixture is fully closed.


4) Photo 4 is taken through the air filter intake in the cowl, it shows there are less than 1/16" clearance with the arm re-clocked.


This current set-up will definitely hit the cowl when the engine is operational and I am still concerned about a cable jam, going from full open to close again.

As I said I am working with XP to see how we resolve, but Oshkosh is taking it's toll.

I don't want to go the cut and tig weld route at this stage...

Regards
Rudi

How did it work out Rudi?

Rudi,

How did you resolve the issue you posted last? Those of us with vertical intake I-O360 precision FI systems would like to know how it worked out for you.

Does anyone else have any updated information on this topic?

Thanks