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P mag problem

M

Mike Ice

Well Known Member
Hello,

This NOT a note bashing Emagair. This is just a service update to let folks like me know what is happening with P/E mags.

Yesterday I had a P mag problem occur at about 25 hours.

I had been flying around for about 3 hours and decided to stop and refuel. After refueling I hung around and shared stories with some others that were there. All total I was on the ramp about 45 minutes. I am telling you this to relate how long the engine and mags were possibly heat soaked. The outside air tmp was about 60 and on the ramp maybe 65 with a breeze and the airplane pointed into the breeze. I did not have the oil door opened.

As I was getting ready to depart I was doing my usual run up proceedure and when I shut off the P lead to the P mag the engine began to run rough. I turned the mag back off and the engine ran smooth, with reduced power on the emag. I turned the p lead back on to the p mag and the engine still ran smoothly so I advanced power and the engine ran rough again. This time I shut down the engine and waited a few minutes to try and reason out what was happening.

I thought that perhaps shutting the p mag off by using the p lead had some how affected the timing so I tried a restart. The engine started fine and ran good at all rpm's so I elected to depart for my home airport about 5 miles away.

Take off was normal and climb out was just fine until at about 2,000 feet the engine once again began to run rough. I looked at the CHT's they were all pretty mormal around 300 or so. I turned off the p lead to the P mag and the engine once again ran smooth so I continued on, I could see my home field now. After about a minute or so I tried turning on the P mag again and it ran fine and the engine performance increased considerablt, of course. I left the P mag on line and landed.

After landing the engine again ran rough and once again I turned off the P mag.

I called Brad this morning at Emagair and he said that this was a new problem for them and to send in the mag for bench testing.

I just wanted this episode to be recorded for future and present users of E/P mags.

Mike Ice
approx. 25 hours and I keep finding more reasons to like the RV-9 all the time, what a great little airplane.
 
Tests

Hi Mike,

After getting home did you check the timing? Also did you check the jumper wire? Check the resistance of the plug wires too for that mag. Since it is intermittent it might be wiring related.

I was helping a friend that had virtually the same issue. We checked and the jumper wire was loose in one of the ports, so it was intermittent.

I haven't had any issues in over 170 hours now with dual Pmags. Hot weather use and no blast tubes.

My airplane hasn't seen 65 degrees since March:mad: So I doubt it is temperature related.
 
good idea

Darwin,

Thanks for ideas. That is just the info I was looking for. Constructive help is always welcome. I have the mags and I will learn to live with them.

No. I have not done as you suggested but today when I get to the airport i will. I hope it is as you suggest and just a loose wire or the loose nut behind the stick.

If not I will remove the unit today and mail it back to Emagair.

Mike
 
Interested in resolution

Keep us up to speed with what you find. I just ordered a pair of Pmags this week and will follow this with interest.
 
More P mag info

Darwin,

I went to the airport and pulled on the wires of the P-Mag hoping to find what you mentioned but no joy. The wires were secure and the fixture was tight. I then pulled the plugs and they were all good. I centered the engine on TDC and both mags had bright green lights so they were in time.

At that point I pulled both the P mag and the E mag and put them in a box and they are on their way to Azle Texas.

By the middle of next week I should know what went wrong. Or at least I hope that they find something wrong. If they don't find something then I am really going to be troubled.

Mike Ice
 
Stuff happens

Mike Ice said:
I called Brad this morning at Emagair and he said that this was a new problem for them and to send in the mag for bench testing.
Click to expand...
Sometimes stuff stops working, that is why we have two of them. You seemed focused on heat as the reason. The heat soak could have just been a coincidence of timing? I think the fact it has 25 hours on it is more interesting. Often it takes time for electronics to burn-in. Problems crop up early. Once past that burn in period you can expect high reliability.
 
Last edited:
Testing Temperature

Thanks for the info all;

Am installing P mags today so will be extra super careful. Bought a cheapo digital cooking thermometer at Wal-Mart today. Planning on taping the probe close to the mags to get a sense of the heat there before I start wrestling with blast tubes. Can monitor the readout in the cockpit.

I'm encouraged that Darwin hasn't had any problems as we share similar temp ranges.

....man, I just hate "rough" engine at any altitude....

Deal Fair
RV-4 (N34CB)
George West, TX (8T6)
 
I have two P-mags also, though only about 20 trouble free hours so far.

Since my RV4 is the first home built with dual P-mags in the UK (in fact dual non-certified mags on a Lyco style engine) I was concerned that they did not hiccup in front of the LAA, the UK certifying body, since they are watching closely.

I had a long chat with Brad (E-mag Inc), he is really helpful, and his only real concern was that I got good blast tubes pointing at the neck of the mag. The mag's record the highest temp they have seen internally, in software, and I understand most returned units have been over temped. I will be interested to see the result of yours.

I also have some of those contact bits of paper that turn colour if/when they over temp. They are set for 93C. So far the RH one is still its original colour, I can see it from the oil door. (The LH I havnt seen for a while since I need to take the top cowl off.)

I do worry about the temp after a short shut down, though here in the UK its not so hot...particularly this summer. But as I say its not exceeded 93C.

PS I understand that Rob Hickman plans to support the EICAD interface through the ACS3400/3500. For those that have that EFIS that will be great because then we will hopefully be able to monitor the temperature in real time.
 
Mike,

The others are right on with the high temp thing. I can say for a fact that I have cooked mine before but I believe it is during shut down on 90+ degree days here in the Carolinas and yet mine seem to keep working.

Is there any chance that the ground wire is shorting out in flight or some such odd thing?

How are your CHT's looking when it acts up? Usually when they loose timing, your CHT's will go sky high.

Bill
 
PS. The 114 Pmags have a small "Nonreversible Square Single-Point Temp Label" on them.

Brad from Emagair said they got them from McMaster-Carr (where else?) and the part number is 5952K222. These change colors at 200 Deg F and come 21 labels per card and cost $7.61 a card.

I have bought some for my 113 P-mags but have yet to put them on because I haven't pulled the cowl since they arrived.
 
Cooking P Mags

George,

Good points about electronic reliability. That has been my experience in the past as well. I only mentioned the heat as a possible problem because I wanted to share all the facts. I really don't think that is the problem but we will see.

Bill,

I don't think the ground wires are a problem but who knows? Brad and the crew will have the mags Monday afternoon and the facts will be shared with all.

If I did not mention it before, I do have the cooling blast tubes installed and the wiring is just like Emagair suggests. Brad asked if the oil temperature readings have been high, I suppose to get a sense if cooling was an issue, because some folks have been having a problem with not getting enough airflow through the cowled area due to exit air restrictions. On my RV that doesn't seem to be a problem, I have been seeing oil temperatures in the 180 to 190 degree range, and yes I did put the sender in boiling water once to see if it read close to 212. I know that is a little cool but that is another issue.

I think the problem is electrical (electronic) in nature and is internal to the Pmag but that is just a guess. We will see and I will post the results.

Where I live I have to have reliability. When I fly to Valdez, only 100 miles straight away, it is across 2 mountain ranges Three ice fields, numerous glaciers and Prince William Sound, not one good landing area anywhere inbetween unless I follow the road, then it is 345 miles or so to Valdez.

Mike Ice
 
Shoot!!

Hi Mike,

I was hoping you'd find something. There is clearly some issue that needs to be rectified. At least Brad and crew turn them around quickly.

Let us know what they find. There hasn't been a report of a problem in a while.


Mike Ice said:
Darwin,

I went to the airport and pulled on the wires of the P-Mag hoping to find what you mentioned but no joy. The wires were secure and the fixture was tight. I then pulled the plugs and they were all good. I centered the engine on TDC and both mags had bright green lights so they were in time.

At that point I pulled both the P mag and the E mag and put them in a box and they are on their way to Azle Texas.

By the middle of next week I should know what went wrong. Or at least I hope that they find something wrong. If they don't find something then I am really going to be troubled.

Mike Ice
Click to expand...
 
P mag mystery

Darwin, Bill and others,

The P mag was at Emagair today and this is what they found:


Mike:

We were unable to recreate an anomaly on our work bench, so we went ahead and replaced the circuit board (all the electronics). Circuit boards are not cheap ($350 each), so carrying around an extra board is something you could certainly do, but I don't think it represent good value. The units will ship later today.

Kindest Regards,

So now what? I guess I will get it back, put it on and give it another try. I guess i will stick close to the airports for awhile. Bummer! Summer is so darned short here.

Oh well.

Mike Ice
 
Mike,

That is very odd. It sounds like you didn't over temp the thing, which is good.

Time to check your plug wires and make sure they aren't shorting out any place. Also, verify the other wires.

Hey, what size wire did you use to power them? I ask because the early manaul called for 20 AWG wire but later they found out that wasn't large enough and asked everyone to upgrade the power and ground lines to 18 AWG.
 
Pmag mystery

Bill,

When I get the mags back I will install them and hope for positive results.

I did use 18 awg wire for all connections. I will check the plug wires. I will check eveything at least twice.

I still want these mags to work and will do what I can to "make it so".

Mike Ice
 
Mike, are you running aircraft or auto plugs. If you said, I missed it.

The reason I ask is that when I made up my auto plug harness there were strict instructions about not 'nicking' the inner core. I do not know what the symptoms would be if you did, but its just a thought since the heat soak idea appears to be wrong.

In the assembly instructions there was a clear statement of how to test each lead for resistance, to check none were nicked. I wonder if that is a possibility?

Hope something shows up soon for you.

Good luck,
 
Plugs?

Mike, while you are at it, go ahead and pull the plugs for the affected P-mag and clean/gap again. Who knows at this point?
 
More P mag reflections

Steve,

Yes. I am using Auto (NGK) spark plugs. I was very careful with the assembly of the plug wires but who knows. I will likely get the mags back today and when i put them back on I will measure the resistance in all the wires. The wires are spiral wound graphite and have a certain OHM's per foot so I guess i will just measure and do the math.

Brett,

I pulled the plugs and they looked good but I will reset the gap when I put them back in or i will just put new ones in at that time.

Also when I reinstall the mags I will switch mags from right to left. I have one emag and one pmag so if the problem reoccurs and changes sides then I will have a new place to strat looking.

I had a long talk with Brad at emagair this morning and he was as usual very helpful and we talked about trouble shooting.

Mike Ice
 
Another p mag update

Here is the latest,

I finally got out to the airport and reinstalled the mags. I checked all the wiring again, it was ok. I pulled,cleaned, regapped and replaced a few spark plugs. I timed the mags using the blow in the tube method.

On the test flight the engine started and ran fine. The problem seems to have gone away and I hope it stays away. Now I just need to build confidence in the mags by a long period of time with no problems.

Today I am going to change the position of the grounds to the mags at Bill R's suggestion. He brought up an interesting thought and it makes sense to me. I have the mags grounded to the common firewall ground and he suggested that this presents a single failure point if the engine ground strap failed. So today I will ground the mags to the engine case.

As I wrote that I wondered if doing so would be wise. What happend if the ground strap to the engine fails and I have the mags grounded to the engine only?

Hmm! Maybe the mags should be grounded at both the engine and the firewall.

Mike ice
 
Mike, you should ground the P-mags to the engine case for two reasons.

1) The install instructions say to do it that way. See p.4.
2) You will have the lowest resistance circuit, and therefore the P-mags will finally quit when self generating at the lowest possible rpm.

Yes, if your engine to firewall ground fails you will be running only on the self generation capability, but at least you will know the ground strap has failed because you wont be able to start the engine. I think the answer here is make a really good ground strap! Examine it regularly. To my mind it is about the most important wire on the aircraft.

I have actually grounded my p-mags to two different places on the engine to make them as independent as possible. A bit of an overkill, but hardly difficult.

I hope all goes well for you now.
 
Very important wire!

Steve Sampson said:
I think the answer here is make a really good ground strap! Examine it regularly. To my mind it is about the most important wire on the aircraft.
Click to expand...

This is extremely important. If the ground strap breaks and you try to start the motor, all of those amps are going to go straight through your PMags. You can guess the rest.
 
Steve Sampson said:
...I have actually grounded my p-mags to two different places on the engine to make them as independent as possible. A bit of an overkill, but hardly difficult...
Click to expand...
Steve, hardly overkill. It is the CORRECT way to wire them. If you put both to a common ground, you might as well only run one ignition system, IMHO.

cguarino said:
This is extremely important. If the ground strap breaks and you try to start the motor, all of those amps are going to go straight through your PMags. You can guess the rest.
Click to expand...
Charlie, I pointed out to Mike that our chapter's tech advisors recommend a secondary engine to airframe grounding path for all aircraft. This could be either a secondary ground strap or something like a 14 to 16 AWG wire from a case bolt to the common ground.

In my case, the stainless steel oil and fuel lines provide this path. (Think faraday cage.)

Should your plane not have a grounding strap in place and you don't have a secondary path and you hit your starter, the load from your starter motor will probably toast every wire between your engine and the airframe. (CHT's, EGT's, etc.) It gets really ugly.
 
wires the wright way

Fellows,

Thanks for the education.

You can bet the next time I am at the airport I will run the ground wire from the E/P mags to the engine.

Mike Ice
 
stainless steel

N941WR said:
...
Charlie, I pointed out to Mike that our chapter's tech advisors recommend a secondary engine to airframe grounding path for all aircraft. This could be either a secondary ground strap or something like a 14 to 16 AWG wire from a case bolt to the common ground.
Click to expand...
Seems like wise advice.

N941WR said:
In my case, the stainless steel oil and fuel lines provide this path. (Think faraday cage.)
Click to expand...
This is flexible hose with stainless steel braiding, right?
 
I*I*R

Bill, have you measured the resistance of the stainless hoses? Its a huge current flow (> 200amps?) when you hit the starter.

When I built my -4 I rejected that as an acceptable path in my mind without ever investigating very far. Similarly the control cables.

If either of these paths ever had to take the full load I question if they could accept the heat. Maybe its a lower resistance than I think.

PS Apologies if I drifted your P-mag thread Mike.
 
It will probably go through the PMag

Isn't lectricity is like water? Won't it seek the path of least resistance? Give Brad at Emag a call and asks him what happens on an electronic ignition airplane when the ground strap breaks.
 
Second ground strap attach point

smithhb said:
This is the reason a lot of folks go with dual ground straps.
Click to expand...

Bret,

Not to further hijack this thread, but... Can you share where you connected your second ground strap to the engine? My first one is attached to one of the aux alternator (aka vacuum pad) mounting studs. I'm thinking either a sump bolt or that mystery hole low on the starboard side to mount strap #2.

thanks,
mcb
 
Ground strap

Matt,

I haven't installed the straps yet but plan to just grab the nearest accessory case bolt.
 
grounding the pmags

Don't worry about hijacking this thread. Let it take on a life of it's own.

I used the braided strap to ground the engine to the firewall and vacuum pad bolt. Another ground strap seems like a good idea.

I finally flew off the 40 hours and was able to bring the 9 back to Anchorage last night. Now I can work on it in the evenings instead of just the weekends.

First order of business is ground the mags to the engine then find and stop that pesky little oil leak.

Mike Ice
RV-9 40.5 hours
 
another mystery with a p-mag

Hello,

The mags were doing just great until this morning when I was doing a run up. I switched off the p lead to the p mag and the tach dropped about 20 rpms, I turned it back on. I then turned off the p lead to the emag and the engine died, dead as Heck, right there in the run up area at the end of 34 at Merrill Field. Luckily there was no one around and I wasn't holding up traffic so I did a restart and tried the mag check again and they worked just fine and continued to do so the rest of today.

I love these things (mags) and I want them to work, I really do, but right now they scare me a little. The engine makes great power and the starts are stellar but these little mystery occurrences are really bugging me.

So, I really think it is time for me to order a set of slick mags and give up on these e/p mags. It may just be me and my wiring but my confidence level is pretty low.

Anyone want to buy a slightly used e/p mag?

Mike Ice
 
Mike Ice said:
Hello,

The mags were doing just great until this morning when I was doing a run up. I switched off the p lead to the p mag and the tach dropped about 20 rpms, I turned it back on. I then turned off the p lead to the emag and the engine died, dead as Heck, right there in the run up area at the end of 34 at Merrill Field. Luckily there was no one around and I wasn't holding up traffic so I did a restart and tried the mag check again and they worked just fine and continued to do so the rest of today.

I love these things (mags) and I want them to work, I really do, but right now they scare me a little. The engine makes great power and the starts are stellar but these little mystery occurrences are really bugging me.

So, I really think it is time for me to order a set of slick mags and give up on these e/p mags. It may just be me and my wiring but my confidence level is pretty low.

Anyone want to buy a slightly used e/p mag?

Mike Ice
Click to expand...

There should be an "emotional support group". Don't for a minute think it is just you or your wiring. I've been there and done the same dance on the runup pad with pmags. You're story is nearly the same as mine was. I survived it. I hope you do too. You're story is way to perfectly familiar. Thanks for having the courage to tell it.
 
What RPM

Mike,

The Emag is power dependent. If you killed the power to it, with the Pmag off, the engine is going to die. The Pmag will have self power above a certain RPM. You need to know what that RPM is.

I don't kill the power do them with the breaker. I simply do a L/R/Both mag check and go.
 
Mike,

This is very odd. Electronics either work or they don't, usually there is no in between.

As someone else mentioned, the RPM of your check might suspect.

The other thought is to verify the connector and the wires going to it. Is it possible you have a loose wire?

Early on I had tinned the wires to both of my P-mags. The wires on one P-mag broke from the vibration. These wires were stripped back, the solder section cut off and just bare wires inserted in the connector. The right P-mag continues to run with the tinned wires. I'm waiting for them to show some sign of a problem but with a 190 hours on the plane, none have cropped up.

BTW, I'm still running Bob's Z-33 setup, even though the E-mag Air guys recommend against it. This allows me to do a full functionality check every flight, not just once a month.
 
p mag work

Scott,

Hear you! I know you have been there done that. For some reason I still like the little beasts. I would like to continue this on a personal level. Do you mind if I email you directly?

RV7 guy,

The p mag had both the power and the p lead switches in the on and run position. The engine RPM's were about 1300. I did cut the power to the p mag once ( a while ago, not today) and reduced power until it shut the engine off (approx 800 rpms). But this time I did not shut the power off. I have been very precise with turning on the power and then the p leads to the mags.

Never the less thanks for the ideas. I am plum out of them.

Bill,

I agree with you concerning electronics and how they work. Why am I having this problem? I have checked the wiring numerous times and found no problems, I have the mags wired exactly like the emagair folks suggest.

Lately I have been so apprehensive about doing a mag check that I have been skipping it. (I can hear the tisk tisks) What I have been doing is just pulling up and doing a full power run up and if it all feels good then just going. But today I decided to try a run up and WHAM.

I am going to order a set of slicks this week.

Again, I am not trying to show any disrespect to e/p mags. The problem might truely be me or the close proximety to the HARP project.

Mike Ice
 
Dead P-mag on mag check

Hi Mike,

I experienced the same thing...running fine, then the next mag check and it's dead. Shut down and restarted and everything worked fine. I called Brad and he knew immediately the problem....something about the voltage drop during starter engagement that reaches a certain value and the P/E mag senses (falsely) a failure and shuts down.

I sent the P mags in and they did a firmware update and problem is gone.

Mitch Garner

RV-4 flying
 
fragile p mags

Mitch,

Thanks for the information.

I suspect it is something like that for my problem as well. Some tiny little insignificant little blip, burp, glitch, whatever. Something that causes the software to hic-cup. Not a big deal usually but where I fly and want to fly it doesn't give me a sense of well being.

There is is a place I have wanted to travel to for some time now it is Middleton Island, you can Google it. It is 60 miles out in the Gulf of Alaska, that is 60 miles of flying over the North Pacific and feeling warm and fuzzy about your airplane is very important.

I have sent the mags back twice now and each time costs $100 (shipping) or more and the down time as well.

Thanks once again for the update.

Mike Ice
 
Last edited:
RVadmirer said:
They are great if you have no problems and miserable when you do!
Click to expand...

I'm not sure this is an accurate statement...seems there are relatively few problems with these units anymore. Of the few I've heard of, most were fixed with firmware updates and only a handful had significant ongoing problems. In the case of the gentleman in the 3-part-post, it seems as if he had a significant vibration problem that led to his continual failure.

The others (in the small group of ongoing failures) could have had lemons, or there may have been something wrong with their installation or platform (excessive vibration, heat, etc).

That said, I think it's good that Emagair is addressing the sensor problem with the latest SB. At least it shows they're being proactive. I'm not an engineer so I can't say if it's a bad design or redesign, but I know plenty of engineers who disagree on how things are designed, so there's probably no single right way to do it.

For the record, I have 2 P-mags in my RV that hasn't yet flown...I'm cautiously optimistic and excited about using them. So far, the company has been very helpful and supportive with their product, which says a lot to me.
 
lostpilot28 said:
I'm not sure this is an accurate statement...seems there are relatively few problems with these units anymore. Of the few I've heard of, most were fixed with firmware updates and only a handful had significant ongoing problems. In the case of the gentleman in the 3-part-post, it seems as if he had a significant vibration problem that led to his continual failure.

The others (in the small group of ongoing failures) could have had lemons, or there may have been something wrong with their installation or platform (excessive vibration, heat, etc).

That said, I think it's good that Emagair is addressing the sensor problem with the latest SB. At least it shows they're being proactive. I'm not an engineer so I can't say if it's a bad design or redesign, but I know plenty of engineers who disagree on how things are designed, so there's probably no single right way to do it.

For the record, I have 2 P-mags in my RV that hasn't yet flown...I'm cautiously optimistic and excited about using them. So far, the company has been very helpful and supportive with their product, which says a lot to me.
Click to expand...

Is "lemon" a technical term? :) I am an engineer and we try not to use such concepts when our loved one's lives are on the line, or even just our reputation. Ultimately it was the (lack of) engineering process that drove me quickly away from my similarly problematic p-mags. I also invited Brad and Tom to an "engineering session" by which I could demonstrate repeatable non-installation errors through my 90 hours of testing, to which they declined. I also dearly wanted the concept and enterprise to work. To the point of personal risk. However it became clear to me that something was missing in the analysis equation.
 
I am assuming The post from Mr. Gary Cotner has shown up here on this forum. I have not seen it as I have mags on my engine and wasn't following the threads. I have a cousin in Kansas that built and flies a Thorp T-18, and he sent me the post from Mr. Cotner about crashing his T-18. He was very concerned I might be using P-mags on my Rv-9 and wanted me to see the post. If anyone hasn't seen his post I would be glad to share it. I have no axe to grind with P-mag just want to make sure anyone thinking about using P-mags has an opportunity to see the post and make their own assumptions.
 
Pretty wide brush

These comments won't last long as you have completely trashed this company.

I have had a couple of issues but have not had any in over 200 hours now. I think the problem is as described, your engine is AFU somehow. I'm running an ECI IO 360 with Whirlwind 200 RV. This combination is extremely smooth. Additionally, I operate in the probably the hottest climate in the US and this has not been an issue.

Although I'm not denying you had the issues, I would have to say the common thread is your airframe and engine. Nobody has had this many failures that I know of. Clearly something else is going on that is not the fault of Emagair.

You have trashed the company when the problem has not been discovered. I sincerely hope when you find out what was internally wrong with your engine that you will let everyone know.

There are hundreds of people using these units with great success. Why are there not dozens and dozens of failures?
 
Not everyone

is having these problems. I have put 409 hours on an RV7a in the last 18 months with an IO360 with dual PMAGs. At the condition inspection in March, I had the PMAGs updated to the latest and have flown 140 hours this year with no issues. In my opinion, these issues must be related to either airframe or engine issues in these installations.
 
tommylewis said:
is having these problems. I have put 409 hours on an RV7a in the last 18 months with an IO360 with dual PMAGs. At the condition inspection in March, I had the PMAGs updated to the latest and have flown 140 hours this year with no issues. In my opinion, these issues must be related to either airframe or engine issues in these installations.
Click to expand...
I couldn't have said it better!

Two recent problem reports with the P-mags look to be traced back to the installation.

With 190+ hours on mine over the past year, I have only good things to say about the P-mags and the company!

Yes, they did have problems early on but they have worked hard to solve them.

When asked why they don't respond to forums like this, they replied that they can either spend their time improving the product or surfing the web. Their feeling was that if they fix the problem, the web will take care of itself. BTW, that is my wording, not theirs.

There is a funny thing about this ignition. Everyone seems to want to jump on them when there is one report of a problem. Yet, when a Light Speed, Slick, or Bendix ignition fails, hardly a word is said. (The recent thread about Light Speed is the only negative one I recall seeing.)

The best complement Emag Air has been paid was when Lycoming selected them for the O-233. That should give you an idea how good these ignitions are and with Lycoming's backing, they are only going to get better.
 
scard said:
Is "lemon" a technical term? :) I am an engineer and we try not to use such concepts when our loved one's lives are on the line, or even just our reputation. Ultimately it was the (lack of) engineering process that drove me quickly away from my similarly problematic p-mags. I also invited Brad and Tom to an "engineering session" by which I could demonstrate repeatable non-installation errors through my 90 hours of testing, to which they declined. I also dearly wanted the concept and enterprise to work. To the point of personal risk. However it became clear to me that something was missing in the analysis equation.
Click to expand...

Scott, it doesn't need to be a technical term. Just because something is "engineered" to work a certain way doesn't mean it will. Variances in manufacturing could be enough to make some units fail. Obviously, that's what we have QA for, right? In the canard pilot's case, it sounded like he had vibration issues.

I may not be one, but I've worked with electical engineers more than I care to admit for the past 10 years...I know that having a degree doesn't make one good at something. And there's lots of folks out there with little education that know more about certain subjects than those that have been educated.

I've talked to the guys at Emagair and I believe they know what they're doing.
 
Another happy customer here

Hi.

I've dual P-mags in my Extreem IO-360 with M/T prop from Eagle Engines, and those P-mags really rocks!
I've approx 20 hrs on the engine now, and it's the smoothest engine/prop combo I've ever flown behind!

Brad at Emag Air is VERY helpful and provides great customer service!

It's also nice to know that they send out S/B's so the product will be even better. It's us, the Experimental world, which makes new developments possible. And product improvements is what we all want, right?

If the P-mags continue to run as silk (and I expect they will), the I'll probably put dual P-mags in my second RV as well. (tailfeathers, fuse and wings done)
 
P-MAG ISSUES

Interesting 3 part post concerning the P-MAG problems. I just started flyng my new RV-7A with a TMX IO-360 engine with two P_MAGs. Within 5 hours, the newest of the two P-MAGs (Ver 114) had a very bad timing issue, and I sent it back for repair. I put the older (Ver 113) unit into the left side, and a Slick mag on the right side, and have flown the plane for another 25 Hours trouble free. The repaired unit should be here tomorrow, but I think I'll keep it on the bench for a while until this issue get's resolved....
In light of these issues others have seen I'll keep a close watch on the P-MAG operation.....

Fred Stucklen
RV-7A N924RV 30 Hrs
RV-6A N926RV 875 Hrs (Sold)
RV-6A N925RV 2008 Hrs (Sold)
 
P-MAG ISSUES

Guys,

Just an other thought. don't confuse P_MAG/E-MAG failure symptoms with pre-ignition symptoms that you might be having with spark plugs. Sparl plugs that start acting like "Glow plugs" will cause cylinder pre-ignition problems that would appear to be heat related ignition problems. CHT's sky rocket on ALL cylinder as pre-ignition is essensially a backfire into the intake manifold, disrupting fuel flow to all cylinders.
If you are able to pull the mixture on the engine when the roughness occurs, wait about three seconds, then push the mixture back in again, and the engine runs fine, you've just experienced a pre-ignition event.
The next thing you have to do is to take a realy close look at the spark plugs. What I've seen (when I used auto plugs) was melted and or broken ceramic centers. replacing the auto plugs with aviation plugs solved the problem....
For the record, the ignition systems were the Jeff rose versions and the plugs were Autolight 386......

Fred stucklen
RV-7A N924RV


Mike Ice said:
Steve,

Yes. I am using Auto (NGK) spark plugs. I was very careful with the assembly of the plug wires but who knows. I will likely get the mags back today and when i put them back on I will measure the resistance in all the wires. The wires are spiral wound graphite and have a certain OHM's per foot so I guess i will just measure and do the math.

Brett,

I pulled the plugs and they looked good but I will reset the gap when I put them back in or i will just put new ones in at that time.

Also when I reinstall the mags I will switch mags from right to left. I have one emag and one pmag so if the problem reoccurs and changes sides then I will have a new place to strat looking.

I had a long talk with Brad at emagair this morning and he was as usual very helpful and we talked about trouble shooting.

Mike Ice
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