Why Fulltron Pro-Seal's your RV's canopy after painting.

[FulltronAviation]

Unsealed paint edges along any of the plexiglass areas of an RV is an open invitation for chipped fiberglass and paint peeling to start. The area where fiberglass meets plexiglass might look perfect after you've just finished painting, but moisture can seep in under the edge of the fiberglass. Between moisture that seeps under the edge of the fiberglass, combined with freezing temperatures due to winter weather, or flying high enough even in the summer, and 200mph airspeed in our RV's, can lead to swelling and chipping of the fiberglass edges, and then paint peeling.

These are before and after photos of an RV-10 that came into Fulltron's paint shop recently. The customer had recently purchased this RV-10 and the paint was faded, along with areas along the plexiglass where paint had chipped and peeled. If you look closely at any painted RV that has not had these fiberglass/plexiglass areas carefully sealed after painting, you'll very likely see signs of fiberglass chipping starting. AND, once that chipping starts, it only gets worse over time, as these photos show.

At Fulltron's paint shop, we found the best solution to prevent fiberglass chipping and paint peeling along these areas is to seal around the plexiglass edges with Pro-Seal. This is the same stuff that you use to seal your fuel tanks. Pro-Seal permanently seals the fiberglass edges, preventing any moisture from seeping under the fiberglass edges. It also gives a "finished" look to a new paint job.

 

[DanH]

So what is the brown stuff and the blue stuff?
.

 

[Bandera]

I just replaced the sealer around some windows. Someone had done the worst seal job that I had ever seen. I couldn’t let that fly. My OCD said “make it look nice”.

 

[Kyle Boatright]

Unsealed paint edges along any of the plexiglass areas of an RV is an open invitation for chipped fiberglass and paint peeling to start. The area where fiberglass meets plexiglass might look perfect after you've just finished painting, but moisture can seep in under the edge of the fiberglass. Between moisture that seeps under the edge of the fiberglass, combined with freezing temperatures due to winter weather, or flying high enough even in the summer, and 200mph airspeed in our RV's, can lead to.

Rain erosion is another reason to apply a proseal transition between the plexiglass and painted surfaces.

 

[HFS]

FYI - Windshield/Canopy Sealant

You probably know this, as well as many others on this site; but, PRC-DeSoto specifically makes sealants just for this purpose. I get mine from Bergdahl Associates, in Sparks, NV - they are very nice & helpful people.

See the attached "grab" from their "line card" on their website -

YMMV - But their stuff works and comes in gray or silver.

HFS

 

[msires]

So what is the brown stuff and the blue stuff?
.

Just guessing, but the brown look like the fiberglass canopy that has no paint, the blue looks like they didn't peel the plastic off the inside of the plexi until after it was installed, and that is the lip where you can't peel it off after it was installed.

 

[FulltronAviation]

The brown and blue stuff is inside the plexiglass.

Looks like the original builder attached the brown interior to the inside of the plexiglass with blue adhesive. We did not remove the plane's interior. Appears that they then had to paint over this interior and adhesive to cover it from sight. They had painted a strip of the plexiglass that was about 1 1/2" wide.

Dan - Fulltron Aviation

 

[PaulvS]

Solvents and plexi

Is it safe to use Pro-Seal on the plexi canopy? Van's advice is to avoid using many types of solvents including toluene on plexi because it causes crazing. Fuel tank sealant contains toluene.

https://www.vansaircraft.com/faq/acrylic-canopy-and-lexan-window-hints/

 

[Bandera]

Even airliners have pro-seal around the windows.

 

[Kyle Boatright]

Is it safe to use Pro-Seal on the plexi canopy? Van's advice is to avoid using many types of solvents including toluene on plexi because it causes crazing. Fuel tank sealant contains toluene.

https://www.vansaircraft.com/faq/acrylic-canopy-and-lexan-window-hints/

The amount of solvent in proseal is tiny. Proseal is very widely used in this application with no adverse effects.

In particular, they use the version of proseal which has a 1/2 hour working life and where both components are black (which makes mixing technique and time important, 'cause there's no visual reference).

 

[BillL]

I just replaced the sealer around some windows. Someone had done the worst seal job that I had ever seen. I couldn’t let that fly. My OCD said “make it look nice”.

What tool do you use to apply such a small, even bead of pro seal?

 

[Kyle Boatright]

What tool do you use to apply such a small, even bead of pro seal?

Mask it, scuff it, apply the proseal with a syringe, then use a gloved finger or tongue depressor to trowel it to shape.

The scary part is peeling the tape off while the proseal is still gooey. That's how you leave a neat line...until you let the proseal covered tape touch the airplane, or you, or...

 

[Richard Connell]

The way I’ve done this:
2 layers of electrical tape each side with a 1/8-3/16 gap where the proseal goes.
Then another 2” blue painters tape on top each side. So you have roughly a 4” wide strip with a 1/8-3/16 gap in the middle that is 3 tape thicknesses deep.
Then just use a 1” or smaller spatula to smooth proseal through the gap.

Edit: yes or as Kyle says your (gloved..) finger!

 

[dmn056]

Use your finger wet with soapy water to smooth the Proseal. Or, if you're in a hurry, spit works well ��.

 

[Bandera]

Mask it, scuff it, apply the proseal with a syringe, then use a gloved finger or tongue depressor to trowel it to shape.

The scary part is peeling the tape off while the proseal is still gooey. That's how you leave a neat line...until you let the proseal covered tape touch the airplane, or you, or...

Pretty much this. I have a couple different sizes of pro-seal guns and a big box of tongue depressors.

 

[Bill Boyd]

If you did the entire Sil-Pruf method, this gap was filled with Sil-Pruf sealant after paint, using the mechanical application and smoothing techniques described in the above posts.

 

[bjdecker]

Mask it, scuff it, apply the proseal with a syringe, then use a gloved finger or tongue depressor to trowel it to shape.

The scary part is peeling the tape off while the proseal is still gooey. That's how you leave a neat line...until you let the proseal covered tape touch the airplane, or you, or...

...you wonder how proseal got in your armpit, or behind your knee...

 

[pilotkms]

Fulltron - Good Policy +

Had my plane painted by Art-Craft in Santa Maria CA. I actually flew it from GA just to get it painted there. They did the proseal border on all joints between Fibreglass or metal and the plastic. I didn’t ask for it they just did it. Little did I know the benefit of this. Definitely a PLUS. My paint is now 5 years old and looks as good as the day I picked it up. Ask for or do the edge treatment for sure.

 

[Bandera]

...you wonder how proseal got in your armpit, or behind your knee...

The harder you try to NOT get pro-seal on you, the more you get on you.

 

[FulltronAviation]

YES - Fulltron does Pro-Seal EVERY plane that we paint.

We've had several calls and direct emails since we started this thread, asking if we Pro-Seal every plane that we paint, or if it's an option, at additional cost. The answer is that Fulltron Pro-Seal's every paint job that we do, it's included in the paint quote that we give you, at no extra cost. We see lots of RV's, and we have NEVER seen a previously painted RV that had the plexiglass/fiberglass areas sealed, and they almost always have some damage in these areas.. We've also seen never painted RV's with damage from not sealing these areas. We had a 14 recently that had 450 hours on it, that had never been painted, because they were waiting on a paint slot, that had damage in the plexiglass/fiberglass areas. Look carefully at any RV that's flying and if it hasn't been properly sealed you will probably see damage. And once damage has started it only gets worse.

 

[DanH]

Look carefully at any RV that's flying and if it hasn't been properly sealed you will probably see damage.

1200 hours, no damage...
.

 

[pilotkms]

From your post above:
We see lots of RV's, and we have NEVER seen a previously painted RV that had the plexiglass/fiberglass areas sealed..

Yes, you’ve NEVER seen mine. And there are others. An RV8 at my home field KPXE, painted by the owner, also has the plexiglass/fiberglass ProSeal seams.

 

[Kyle Boatright]

From your post above:
We see lots of RV's, and we have NEVER seen a previously painted RV that had the plexiglass/fiberglass areas sealed..

Yes, you’ve NEVER seen mine. And there are others. An RV8 at my home field KPXE, painted by the owner, also has the plexiglass/fiberglass ProSeal seams.

Based on walking the line at Oshkosh, it ain't common.

 

[FulltronAviation]

ANOTHER RV with chipped paint/fiberglass.

Fulltron has been getting calls from RV owners who saw this thread after we started it, and called us because their RV has chipped paint/fiberglass at the plexiglass/fiberglass intersection. This RV-8 few in today for us to look at and schedule his repair work. Sometimes it only starts with the smallest little chip in the paint, but the chips can grow and can get moisture into the underlying fiberglass and then start delaminating. What RV'ers bring to Fulltron is RV's with old paint jobs that need repainting, and/or RV's with paint damage, fiberglass damage, etc.

Fulltron will be at Pettit-Jean RV Fly-In and is sponsoring the Saturday evening BBQ. We'll also have an RV-10 demo plane with a Fulltron "showplane" paint job. Stop by and meet our Fulltron crew and see our fit & finish.

 

[JDA_BTR]

The very first post from this thread struck me as advertising. It still does. I hope a moderator steps in and calls it.....

 

[Brantel]

The very first post from this thread struck me as advertising. It still does. I hope a moderator steps in and calls it.....

Well, since they are a VAF advertiser.....

 

[JDA_BTR]

Ah, the fine print..... is the rule applying to vendors having their vending in the signature line, or new postings..... the fine print always gets the best of me! Oh well, another topic to debate I guess - to proseal the plexi seam or not.....

 

[JDA_BTR]

For now I'll add the paint edges to my AD list, and look for cracks in the paint; if I get one I'll lay down a bead of pro seal to keep it from getting worse.... But then I'd be so paranoid about another big mess I can't clean up!

 

[FulltronAviation]

RV-8 with hidden fiberglass damage

We had another RV in the paint-shop with some suspected fiberglass damage. This time it wasn't directly on the edge of the plexiglass but a few inched away. There was some slight disfiguring on the surface of the old paint, letting us know that there was something not quite right, but it was only after we removed the old paint and primer and got down to the actual fiberglass that we saw the real issue. We ground this area down until we were into good fiberglass and then fiberglassed over this area before priming and painting. As you can see in the photo, the original fiberglass work was not done right.

For all the people who have called Fulltron with questions about possible fiberglass damage around the plexiglass, or have read this thread, we want to make sure that you know that these problems we see in our paint shop are not representative of RV's in general. So far, every time we see fiberglass damage like this, or along the edges of plexiglass, these RV's are ALL brought to us by owners who are not the original builders. These RV's are older planes who are on at least the second owner. In one case we know that an RV had changed hands at least four times that we know of. So these planes are not receiving the loving care of the original builders. The current owners we see don't usually go to Oshkosh. They bought a used RV because it was cheap transportation, and not an RV that was in pristine condition. Out of thousands of RV's, there are quite a few like we see in the Fulltron paint shop. These RV's are one more reason to do a thorough pre-buy from an experienced RV mechanic before buying an RV. Most RV's are quality builds, and cared for with lots of love, but there are RV's that are not built right or taken care of properly.

 

[Gnvflyer]

Where can you purchase black Pro Seal?

 

[Kyle Boatright]

Where can you purchase black Pro Seal?

Here's an option. FYI, you're looking for B 1/2 sealant in black.

Flamemaster CS-3204 B-1/2 Black AMS-S-8802E Type 2 (No QPL) Spec Fuel Tank Sealant - Quart (24 fl oz) Can Kit at SkyGeek.com

Flamemaster CS-3204 B-1/2 Black AMS-S-8802E Type 2 (No QPL) Spec Fuel Tank Sealant - Quart (24 fl oz) Can Kit - Visit and view our entire SkyGeek, Shop Supplies, Aerospace Sealants, Fuel Tank Sealants, Flamemaster CS 3204 Class B-1/2 Black Integral Fuel Tank Sealant, section at SkyGeek!

skygeek.com

 

[Gnvflyer]

Thanks Kyle! I just need to seal around the windshield and the canopy, so I probably don't need a quart. I see that they have a 6 ounce "cartridge kit". I think 6 ounces is probably enough, but have never used it in a cartridge.

Would I need any special equipment to use the cartridge?

What about mixing? Is it pre mixed?

 

[Kyle Boatright]

Thanks Kyle! I just need to seal around the windshield and the canopy, so I probably don't need a quart. I see that they have a 6 ounce "cartridge kit". I think 6 ounces is probably enough, but have never used it in a cartridge.

Would I need any special equipment to use the cartridge?

What about mixing? Is it pre mixed?

You need a special applicator to use the cartridge. Honestly, that’s why I pointed you where I did. But you may be able to borrow the applicator or buy a smaller quantity. I suggest searching the web for Black B-1/2 window sealant -there are multiple options.

 

[Vol88]

I recently bought a knock-off Semco pneumatic gun kit from Yardstore to complete the RV-10 elevator SB. It worked great. I also bought a variety of tips as small as 1/16”. The gun will accept both the cartridge and bulk CS3204. They have manual guns, too.

 

[fixnflyguy]

My entire canopy , RV4 , I installed wet with Proseal, fillet sealed and painted. It is compatible, and paints well.

 

[FulltronAviation]

Fulltron received an email yesterday asking which specific ProSeal we use to seal around canopies. The attached pix is the label of the exact ProSeal thatr Fulltron uses. If you have any questions about painting your RV feel free to email me and I'll get an answer for you.

Dan
FulltronAviation.com
[email protected]

 

[DanH]

YES - Fulltron does Pro-Seal EVERY plane that we paint.

We've had several calls and direct emails since we started this thread, asking if we Pro-Seal every plane that we paint, or if it's an option, at additional cost. The answer is that Fulltron Pro-Seal's every paint job that we do, it's included in the paint quote that we give you, at no extra cost. We see lots of RV's, and we have NEVER seen a previously painted RV that had the plexiglass/fiberglass areas sealed, and they almost always have some damage in these areas.. We've also seen never painted RV's with damage from not sealing these areas. We had a 14 recently that had 450 hours on it, that had never been painted, because they were waiting on a paint slot, that had damage in the plexiglass/fiberglass areas. Look carefully at any RV that's flying and if it hasn't been properly sealed you will probably see damage. And once damage has started it only gets worse.

No matter how many times you say it, it's still not true. There are lots of RVs, Lancairs, EZ's , and others with no sealant at the plexglass junction, with lots of hours.

If it's chipping in the breeze, it's just poor work.

 

[dmattmul]

Fulltron received an email yesterday asking which specific ProSeal we use to seal around canopies. The attached pix is the label of the exact ProSeal thatr Fulltron uses. If you have any questions about painting your RV feel free to email me and I'll get an answer for you.

Dan
FulltronAviation.com
[email protected]

Getting close to SNF, would it be possible to let us know N numbers and locations of airframes you have painted that will be there?

 

[FulltronAviation]

Getting close to SNF, would it be possible to let us know N numbers and locations of airframes you have painted that will be there?

i will when it gets closer.i have several talking about going including myself