USing a GPS for Echo besides skyfyx???

[charosenz]

USing a GPS for Echo besides skyfyx??? like GRT safe fly?

Anyone using a GPS that works with the Uavionix Echo besides the Skyfyx? I.E> GRT safe fly gps?

I have the Echo, but I do not have the SkyFyx. I know I could buy one used, but I was just wondering if there anyone is actually using a different GPS and of course is getting a passing PAPR.....

 

[BH1166]

If using EchoUAT, This picture shows you your only Vendors choices per FAA that are allowed. Has to be WAAS capable. I use SafeFly 2020 GRT. This and UAvionic SKYFYX internal/external are likely the least expensive and easiest to install.

 

[Skysailor]

Any ADSB compatible Serial GPS source

The Uavionix Echo will accept any ADSB compatible GPS source sent to in as RS232 data in NMEA format but usually labeled ADSB or ADSB+ with Garmin units. It prefers to use 115200 as a baud rate for that but will accept lower. The key is the data must be from a capable ADSB source to pass the PAPR. The data stream itself identifies it as ADSB compatible. As an example you can send the data in NMEA format from a GNS 430 or from a GNS 430W (or any WAAS receiver) but only the 430W would pass the PAPR. I have sent the data to the Echo from the SkyFX but also from a Garmin GNS 480. Both have always passed PAPR with no issues. The trick here is the data. The GNS 480 will output NMEA data on several serial ports but will only output ADSB compatible data on Port 3 and the type of data output is shown as ADSB+. This is NMEA data with the other data in the stream which allows the Echo to know it is ADSB compatible.

 

[charosenz]

If using EchoUAT, This picture shows you your only Vendors choices per FAA that are allowed. Has to be WAAS capable. I use SafeFly 2020 GRT. This and UAvionic SKYFYX internal/external are likely the least expensive and easiest to install.

Butch,

Thanks. I used the echo and skyfyx in my last airplane. It did work well.

But.......they do not offer the skyfyx anymore and there are a few questionable used one on the market - which I might use ....but......

I am also reading there may be other units RAIM-WAAS-GPS units that provided good solid GPS that work well with the Echo and I think the GRT RAIM-WAAS-GPS fits that bill. But I want to hear from real been-there-done-that folks before I rely on vendor statements just by themselves.

As far as the FAA site goes, there is also the importance of knowing if the list of "approved" means for certified aircraft ...or...if it is "rule compliant" which of course is two separate topics. The GRT Safe Fly is RAIM-WAAS-GPS that is "Rule compliant" and communicates with the ECHO. Via RS232 serial port with the proper settings....

All that to say I am just looking for someone who actually has used a ECHO with a Rule Compliant RAIM-WAAS-GPS like the GRT Safe FLY or something else and actually had a successful PAPR.....

Hope that all helps pin down what I am looking for. Thanks.

 

[charosenz]

The Uavionix Echo will accept any ADSB compatible GPS source sent to in as RS232 data in NMEA format but usually labeled ADSB or ADSB+ with Garmin units. It prefers to use 115200 as a baud rate for that but will accept lower. The key is the data must be from a capable ADSB source to pass the PAPR. The data stream itself identifies it as ADSB compatible. As an example you can send the data in NMEA format from a GNS 430 or from a GNS 430W (or any WAAS receiver) but only the 430W would pass the PAPR. I have sent the data to the Echo from the SkyFX but also from a Garmin GNS 480. Both have always passed PAPR with no issues. The trick here is the data. The GNS 480 will output NMEA data on several serial ports but will only output ADSB compatible data on Port 3 and the type of data output is shown as ADSB+. This is NMEA data with the other data in the stream which allows the Echo to know it is ADSB compatible.

Skysailor.....Very well spoken thank you. Also just to add from my understanding that to pass a PAPR you must have RAIM-WAAS-GPS and not JUST WAAS-GPS. I think a lot of discussion miss the importance of knowing that for a system to be rule compliant it has to have RAIM functionality. (with WAAS and other magic).

I also am trying to get up to speed on what you describe as "Type of data". (is it simply baud rate, parity, etc or is it more proprietary software coding).

Can you detail a bit more why the GNS480 data is not compatible, whereas the GNS480W is? Is the 480W RAIM and the 480 not RAIM?

On a side note I have a question in to tech support at GRT asking these imporant questions. I will post here what they advise.

I am not really looking for advice on which is better or simpler, but rather looking for information which is exactly what you have provided.

Thank you.

 

[BH1166]

All that to say I am just looking for someone who actually has used a ECHO with a Rule Compliant RAIM-WAAS-GPS like the GRT Safe FLY or something else and actually had a successful PAPR.....

Hope that all helps pin down what I am looking for. Thanks.

I’ve used GRT SAFEFLY with flawless performance for 4 years, 528 hrs. Other parts, GTX327, GRT SPORT 10.1 for my Adsb in/out. I Use ipad in flight too, no issues there either. Good PAPRS, I check once a month.

 

[charosenz]

I’ve used GRT SAFEFLY with flawless performance for 4 years, 528 hrs. Other parts, GTX327, GRT SPORT 10.1 for my Adsb in/out. I Use ipad in flight too, no issues there either. Good PAPRS, I check once a month.

Perfect Thanks Butch!

 

[Skysailor]

Skysailor.....Very well spoken thank you. Also just to add from my understanding that to pass a PAPR you must have RAIM-WAAS-GPS and not JUST WAAS-GPS. I think a lot of discussion miss the importance of knowing that for a system to be rule compliant it has to have RAIM functionality. (with WAAS and other magic).

I also am trying to get up to speed on what you describe as "Type of data". (is it simply baud rate, parity, etc or is it more proprietary software coding).

Can you detail a bit more why the GNS480 data is not compatible, whereas the GNS480W is? Is the 480W RAIM and the 480 not RAIM?

On a side note I have a question in to tech support at GRT asking these imporant questions. I will post here what they advise.

I am not really looking for advice on which is better or simpler, but rather looking for information which is exactly what you have provided.

Thank you.

The data stream type will be NMEA 0183 and to be ADSB compliant (RAIM WAAS GPS) will include the messages which tell the receiver that information is all present and true. This data stream may be labeled with another name (Garmin uses ADSB+ on the 480 and ADSB on other products). Bits, parity, stops are not an issue you need to deal with. Our RS232 data of all kinds is 8/1/none. The baud rate is simply how fast the data moves between devices. The sending port rate and the receiving port rate must match. The Echo would like a baud rate of 115200 but will accept the data at a lower rate.

The 480 data is completely compatible and I should have explained that more clearly. While the GNS 480 navigator has always been a WAAS unit, it was not able to output the ADSB compatible data stream before the last firmware update. The unit just used it for navigation, there was no need to send it anywhere as there were no other devices that could use it way back then. When the need for this data in other devices appeared, a firmware update was done on the unit. When Garmin did the update, they only made provisions to send the ADSB data out on Serial Port 3. Since the 480 has so many serial ports available (9 if memory serves) this caused no issue as long as you planned to send ADSB data on port 3. Other types of data could use the other ports. All it really means to you is that if you use a GNS 480 as your ADSB source you need to plan to have the 480 send it from port 3. The other Garmin WAAS navigators have far fewer serial ports but I think the ADSB data can come from any of them.

All WAAS certified navigators have the ability to calculate RAIM. This was an initial requirement to do prior to shooting an approach to determine if a sufficient number of satellites were available to guarantee accuracy sufficient for IFR navigation to approach standards which is far greater than enroute requirements. The reason you so not see RAIM listed in the data is that a legal ADSB data source now automatically computes RAIM continuously and includes the message indicating satisfactory RAIM calculation in the ADSB compatible data stream.

Your GRT can accept ADSB NMEA data and use it for navigation and then pass it along to your Echo. Normally this would be on one port. The Echo uses far more of the messages included in the data stream than the GRT. The antennas normally send the data at 115200 baud so you would set the serial port baud for the port you are using to that baud rate. You would input the data stream from the antenna on the Receive and then send the data to the Echo on the Transmit side of the port. You would have the option of simply splitting the data leaving the antenna and send one to the GRT Recieve and another the the Echo Receive. A serial device can transmit to multiple devices but only receive from one device on any one port.

Clear as mud? PM me if you would like to discuss on the phone and I would be happy to help.

 

[charosenz]

Sky

Excellent post on detailing the ADS-B GPS topic thank you very much. I am sure many others who read this will appreciate the detail as much as I do.

Charlie

 

[OKAV8r]

When a navigator utilizes WAAS, RAIM is not used.
WAAS operations use Fault Detection and Exclusion (FDE).
It's a minor technical point, and maybe it's potato/ patato to most users, but basic GPS (TSO 129) and WAAS are different.

 

[charosenz]

When a navigator utilizes WAAS, RAIM is not used.
WAAS operations use Fault Detection and Exclusion (FDE).
It's a minor technical point, and maybe it's potato/ patato to most users, but basic GPS (TSO 129) and WAAS are different.

That is interesting. So just curious if a WAAS system with FDE will pass a PAPR report? If not why not?