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Soot update on Smokey, the RV-9A, and insurance

Ed_Wischmeyer

Well Known Member
Two weeks ago today, a plane in a T-hangar two down from mine caught fire, the fire spread, and my hangar was filled with corrosive soot. The ceiling plastic light fixtures melted, but there was apparently no direct heat damage to the RV-9A, now unoriginally named Smokey.

Today, a friend and I went out to retrieve stuff from the hangar. Because of ongoing insurance investigations, we needed an escort to take pictures of everything we removed. He was a great guy and unobtrusive, so no problem there.

I've kept my tools in small plastic containers, like you'd see in a craft store. I like this approach because each container is light, and can be dedicated: one for sockets, another for screwdrivers, another for everything tire and brake, another for gaskets, you get the idea. Today's goal was primarily to rescue all those containers of tools and stuff.

That soot is really awful! It's oily and doesn't like to come off the plastic containers. We used regular household spray cleaner and that got most of it, but not always. And, of course, soot in the corners and ridges of the containers was uncooperative. (Don't forget that regular household cleaners can be corrosive to aluminum.)

When a corner of a container hadn't been completely closed, soot snuck in and the the contents had to be cleaned.

So what does this mean for Smokey? I had already observed soot accumulations in the stabilizer (the tip ribs and all the others have lightening holes), in the wing where the aileron pushrod goes in, and in the most aft bay of the fuselage. What today's exercise indicates is that there's no real way to get those areas clean... Compressed air or solvent would only spread the soot further. Drilling out rivets for access and cleaning would take forever, I doubt there's a shop anywhere that has time to do that kind of project, and lead time for parts from Van's is nine months. With my spinal issues and average sheet metal skills, I need to let the insurance handle it. After all, that's what I pay them for.

Then there's the engine. More specifically, how much soot got into the alternator and starter? Yes, they're somewhat buried behind baffles, but still. And what would soot do on the various hot spots on the engine? I don't know, and the shop will have to determine those answers. And how to clean the engine...

There are a few bright spots. Garmin did a quick turnaround on the GTN650 after making sure there was no soot incursion. I called Lightspeed Aviation about the Zulu headsets, and we talked about the battery boxes (take out the batteries and clean where I can, then hope no soot snuck in around the pushbuttons) and the microphones, where the muffs should have kept the soot out. I've got spare muffs -- somewhere, everything is now densely packed in the garage -- but Lightspeed is going to send me some new ones, gratis. Now that's customer service!

But there is a kicker in the insurance. If a claim is filed for a total loss, regardless of fault, no other insurance company will write you a policy for three years. So I probably know who will insure Smokey's successor.

I like AirCams and have had one in the past, but my company won't cover them. My old Cessna 175 was a great airplane, but slow, and more expensive to maintain than an experimental -- and certified avionics cost twice as much.

So the question is, what's next? The RV-9A has been exactly what I've needed these past years -- I've explored all corners of the flight envelope, found aerodynamics not in the textbooks, kept my IFR proficiency where it ought to be, enjoyed 150+ knot cross-countries, and found new ways to improve flight safety, documented by video and digital flight data.

I can't fly aerobatics because of spinal issues, need to maintain IFR if I'm making trips in coastal Georgia weather, and I'm well-versed in Garmin G3X Touch. The -14A and -10 are appealing, but that's a financial increase. If anybody knows of anything interesting, I might be looking, depending on the insurance.

Trust God, the saying goes... as if we had a choice.

Best to all, and thanks for the support!
 
Thanks for the update Ed.

I guess your dramatic story is of interest to most of us, and I'm sure we all can relate to your feelings :(
Sincerely hope the ending will be to your satisfaction, or as near to as possible.

Such a soot attack must be terrible... and devastating.
 
Ed,

What a terrible situation.

I never would have thought that soot could total an airplane! What a conundrum.

Thank you for sharing the details. Good luck finding your next ride.
 
I'm so sorry to hear about the possible demise of your airplane. It's gotta be especially tough thinking about "totaling" the ship when you look at it and nothing is bent, torn, damaged, or broken. I imagine it sitting there, looking like it's ready to go flying right now.

My feeling is that time is our biggest limiting factor. Sooner or later all of us get old, get sick, lose our medical, etc. If you can get the insurance money and find another RV-9A (or even expand to include 6A and 7A models), you can keep on flying. Either learn the new panel if it has Dynon et al instead of Garmin, or get something that's VFR and have Stein build you a Garmin panel.

If the avionics are good, can you at least salvage the GTN or other high dollar navigator boxes from it?

Either way my advice is find a new plane and keep on flying. Because the clock is ticking.

--Ron
 
Maybe the insurance people will get some swabs of that "soot" and use a GCMassSpec to learn what it is and if corrosive or known to cause cancer in California.

With those temps it would be a miracle if the canopy is not warped.

I will make surely my canopy is closed and plugs in the intake in the morning . . .
 
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In this sad situation, I'd be tempted to buy the salvage back from the insurer and clean it as best I could, then fly till the corrosion starts to manifest, if it ever does. Then pull the engine and avionics for resale, scrap the airframe and buy a flying Rv to take its place.

Not saying I'd do it, but I'd consider it...
 
In this sad situation, I'd be tempted to buy the salvage back from the insurer and clean it as best I could, then fly till the corrosion starts to manifest, if it ever does. Then pull the engine and avionics for resale, scrap the airframe and buy a flying Rv to take its place.

Not saying I'd do it, but I'd consider it...

Maybe... but what if the insurance company deregisters the plane and marks it as salvage, or whatever the terminology is? My hope is that it's flyable and I can make three planned trips this fall before they take it over. Then again, I don't yet know what they're going to do... part of that will depend on the condition inspection next week.
 
Consider calling Corrosion Technologies @ 972 271 7361 and ask if they have any experience with their Corrosion X product used with heavy smoke damage.
May be possible to fog the interior areas and prevent any possible future corrosion issues. A good time to apply would be during the condition inspection next week when you have it all opened up.

https://www.corrosionx.com
 
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I would take measures to reduce the effects of the smoke damage till the insurance company offers the options.
Your location is a high humidity area and will accelerate the corrosion process. I would cover the floor and aircraft with plastic film and a bit of duct tape, forming a tent like structure. A dehumidifier inside the tent would bring the humidity down to safe levels, slowing the chemical process and buying time till you have a workable plan.


Below is an excerpt from a technical bulletin at https://er-emergency.com/

Smoke residue is acidic in nature and creates corrosion to metal, glass, plastics and of all types of substrates. The heat of a fire opens the pores of substrates and drives the soot particle deeply into the outer layers of the substrates affected. Soot when combined with water or high humidity conditions exponentially increases the acidic strength and thus the damage is very aggressive. Chlorides, sulfides and bromides must be halted by immediate cleaning or at a minimum sealing, immersion or spraying of all surfaces in a protective coating such as oil or varnish until appropriate cleaning can be accomplished. Base line wipe tests and after decontamination wipe test can confirm surfaces has been cleaned appropriately. The temporary coating locks or starves the soot from the oxygen and from the soot particles thus neutralizing it. Rule of thumb- If it is smoke it is acidic. Simple pH tests can help determine acidic levels. Controlling humidity and climate reduces acidic corrosion. Also oil coatings to seal from oxygen and dehumidification all aid in the stabilization steps of equipment until thorough decontamination can be performed. Chemistry, metallurgy and engineering principles are employed to decontamination surfaces to safely reduce acids which ultimately causing pitting, scarring, staining and discoloration. It is possible to reverse corrosion with proper mitigation.

Affected equipment should have acclimatization controls including temp. HVAC and dehumidification in place to control high ambient temperature and moisture levels if it was wet or smoked. Also the use of desiccant packs is often part of the process. Also included as an emergency preservation measures is the application of corrosion inhibitors and moisture displacement agents. The equipment left unattended and sitting in corrosive conditions will cost more to restore and repair. If pre-treated and climate controlled, these actions allow the insurance company time to review their questions and decisions without further risk of loss. The application of these services stops the degradation from further affecting the equipment. If these services are provided it is proven that final repair costs will be much less and the chance of restoration is much better. I left untreated a lot of components may need replacement meaning more time and money are added to the end process for final recovery. Equipment that stays covered in corrosive soot and high moisture needs to be mitigated fast as it a hundred times more acidic in nature than is dry soot. These conditions are perfect for flash rusting as air oxidizes quickly on the ferrous metal parts and corrosion will also form on all non-ferrous metal components such as circuit boards, contactors, relays, control panels and motor coils. Tenting or encapsulating is always an effective measure to control the environment.
 
Would a heavy dousing of mineral spirits dissolve and remove the soot? Similar to cleaning the engine?
 
Man, that is a real bummer.

Some folks will want to save it with heroic cleaning measures or fogging or whatever, and I applaud your optimism, but if it were me, I'd push for it to be totaled.

There's no way in the world to get that soot out of everywhere that it may have infiltrated unless you take the whole airplane apart. Sort of like flood damage :(
 
Ed, that is really bad luck and sadly the best outcome is probably a writeoff. Notwithstanding the corrosion issues, the smell will linger forever and be noticeable each time you get in.

It reminds me of a fire at a local supermarket when I was a kid. After the fire the shelves were cleared and everything was tossed into big dumpster bins outside. Being opportunistic kids, we dived in and retrieved all sorts of goodies that looked perfectly fine, however everything smelled and tasted of... smoke.
 
What are the others doing?

Really tough situation, I have to say. You attitude towards this whole thing is a lesson for me. Admirable!

One thought - how are the other airplane owners in your row handling this? Totaling out their airplanes? Or are they looking for cleaning / decontamination options?

All the best to you…
 
More not so good news

As mentioned, yesterday a friend and I retrieved some items from the hangar, cleaning it as best we could.

Not good enough.

Last night, I put things from the hangar on the garage shelves. This morning, I rearranged things to make room for the next load from the hangar. Then I went for my morning walk, and when I stopped at the halfway point, I realized that I could smell soot.

I don't know if the plastic containers were outgassing in the garage and that got on my clothes, or if I had ingested fumes in the garage and was now smelling them, or what. In any case, time for a change of plans!

* Everything that I brought home from the hangar was moved to the back porch (screened in) and put on two steel wire serving carts to "air out." This is probably a fantasy, because after moving everything outside, my hands were grimy and needed to be washed. In other words, nothing from the hangar was cleaned adequately, even though there was no obvious grime remaining.
* Everything in the hangar that was not in a container is hereby declared unsalvageable. There are some tools that were not in boxes, and as mentioned previously, some of the steel tools rusted.
* I do have ten cases of oil, some CamGuard and filters. Those I will take out of their boxes and salvage.
* Lightspeeds will go back to the factoryto have plastic parts replaced and for a cleaning deeper than I can do.

Not sure whose insurance will cover this -- hopefully somebody's -- but the good news is that financially, this will be at worst only a major inconvenience and not a tragedy.

D****t!
 
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Cotton drape?

My first plane was a Pitts S1. Got a new canopy for my bailout rig and used the old one as a dust cover.

Nylon/poly melts, Nomex chars, but is pricey- would a large enough cotton sheet drape have helped?

Could it hurt? Example- does it create static? Would not help having a soot/dust cover that sparked a ripe fuel vapor area on normal preflight.
 
I am trying to wrap my head around the insurance angle. I admit I know nothing about aviation insurance other than how to write a check to pay for it! Should not your insurance company subordinate the claim to the company insuring the aircraft where the fire started? Why should that affect your insurability going forward? Clearly you had no fault in this claim.
 
I feel terrible for you, that really sucks. I wish I was wrong about my earlier prediction. Good luck in whichever plane direction you end of going with.
 
Two weeks ago today, a plane in a T-hangar two down from mine caught fire, the fire spread, and my hangar was filled with corrosive soot. The ceiling plastic light fixtures melted, but there was apparently no direct heat damage to the RV-9A, now unoriginally named Smokey.

Today, a friend and I went out to retrieve stuff from the hangar. Because of ongoing insurance investigations, we needed an escort to take pictures of everything we removed. He was a great guy and unobtrusive, so no problem there.

I've kept my tools in small plastic containers, like you'd see in a craft store. I like this approach because each container is light, and can be dedicated: one for sockets, another for screwdrivers, another for everything tire and brake, another for gaskets, you get the idea. Today's goal was primarily to rescue all those containers of tools and stuff.

That soot is really awful! It's oily and doesn't like to come off the plastic containers. We used regular household spray cleaner and that got most of it, but not always. And, of course, soot in the corners and ridges of the containers was uncooperative. (Don't forget that regular household cleaners can be corrosive to aluminum.)

When a corner of a container hadn't been completely closed, soot snuck in and the the contents had to be cleaned.

So what does this mean for Smokey? I had already observed soot accumulations in the stabilizer (the tip ribs and all the others have lightening holes), in the wing where the aileron pushrod goes in, and in the most aft bay of the fuselage. What today's exercise indicates is that there's no real way to get those areas clean... Compressed air or solvent would only spread the soot further. Drilling out rivets for access and cleaning would take forever, I doubt there's a shop anywhere that has time to do that kind of project, and lead time for parts from Van's is nine months. With my spinal issues and average sheet metal skills, I need to let the insurance handle it. After all, that's what I pay them for.

Then there's the engine. More specifically, how much soot got into the alternator and starter? Yes, they're somewhat buried behind baffles, but still. And what would soot do on the various hot spots on the engine? I don't know, and the shop will have to determine those answers. And how to clean the engine...

There are a few bright spots. Garmin did a quick turnaround on the GTN650 after making sure there was no soot incursion. I called Lightspeed Aviation about the Zulu headsets, and we talked about the battery boxes (take out the batteries and clean where I can, then hope no soot snuck in around the pushbuttons) and the microphones, where the muffs should have kept the soot out. I've got spare muffs -- somewhere, everything is now densely packed in the garage -- but Lightspeed is going to send me some new ones, gratis. Now that's customer service!

But there is a kicker in the insurance. If a claim is filed for a total loss, regardless of fault, no other insurance company will write you a policy for three years. So I probably know who will insure Smokey's successor.

I like AirCams and have had one in the past, but my company won't cover them. My old Cessna 175 was a great airplane, but slow, and more expensive to maintain than an experimental -- and certified avionics cost twice as much.

So the question is, what's next? The RV-9A has been exactly what I've needed these past years -- I've explored all corners of the flight envelope, found aerodynamics not in the textbooks, kept my IFR proficiency where it ought to be, enjoyed 150+ knot cross-countries, and found new ways to improve flight safety, documented by video and digital flight data.

I can't fly aerobatics because of spinal issues, need to maintain IFR if I'm making trips in coastal Georgia weather, and I'm well-versed in Garmin G3X Touch. The -14A and -10 are appealing, but that's a financial increase. If anybody knows of anything interesting, I might be looking, depending on the insurance.

Trust God, the saying goes... as if we had a choice.

Best to all, and thanks for the support!

I don't understand insurance, TBH, but...why would the claim be with YOUR insurance company and not theirs? I'd expect if you did file with yours, they'd subrogate to theirs...

And why would *you* be prevented from getting a new policy if you're not the party at fault?
 
I don't understand insurance, TBH, but...why would the claim be with YOUR insurance company and not theirs? I'd expect if you did file with yours, they'd subrogate to theirs...

And why would *you* be prevented from getting a new policy if you're not the party at fault?

Because insurance is a scam. They take years and years of premiums and when it come time to pay a claim, they do everything they can to weasel out of it.

Sorry, goi g through the insurance nightmare with a storm damaged roof…
 
I don't understand insurance, TBH, but...why would the claim be with YOUR insurance company and not theirs? I'd expect if you did file with yours, they'd subrogate to theirs...

And why would *you* be prevented from getting a new policy if you're not the party at fault?

1. It's convenient to talk to my agent because I don't know who "theirs" is. I am also talking to the FBO that rents the hangar. I'm told that there are ten or so insurance companies busy pointing the finger at each other regarding this fire. Not going into that melee, that's what my agent is for...

2. I can get a new policy on another plane, just not from any other insurance company. Why? Because...

By the way, the name of the next plane -- if there is one -- will be Bandit. Think Burt Reynolds movies. Or better, Sally Field. Yes, I know, not all that original...
 
This thread makes my heart hurt. I am sorry. All the best.

I remember about +20 yrs ago and RV6 newly finished at my airport was burned beyond repair. In the hanger adjacent someone was repairing fiberglass boat (yes boat).

Another friend in that same fire, same row of hangers had an Award winning L-4 (military liaison plane based on J-3). His plane was far enough away that it only got soot....
 
I second that emotion

While you seem to have admirably put this incident into proper perspective, obviously it still sucks huge. Very sorry it happened. In the wake of Smoky, I know we’re all looking forward to photos of “Bandit”!

This thread makes my heart hurt. I am sorry. All the best.

I remember about +20 yrs ago and RV6 newly finished at my airport was burned beyond repair. In the hanger adjacent someone was repairing fiberglass boat (yes boat).

Another friend in that same fire, same row of hangers had an Award winning L-4 (military liaison plane based on J-3). His plane was far enough away that it only got soot....
 
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