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Push buttons for all switching??

At some level a switch is a switch and it doesn't matter. My concern would be the ergonomics of indistinguishable buttons everywhere. For example, retractable landing gear or flaps could just as easily be actuated by push button, but the act of lowering a handle or pushing a flat switch up or down mimics the activity you're asking for. You can do it in the dark without even looking. You'd be giving that up for a sleek appearance. Consider that too.
 
claycookiemonster said:
At some level a switch is a switch and it doesn't matter. My concern would be the ergonomics of indistinguishable buttons everywhere. For example, retractable landing gear or flaps could just as easily be actuated by push button, but the act of lowering a handle or pushing a flat switch up or down mimics the activity you're asking for. You can do it in the dark without even looking. You'd be giving that up for a sleek appearance. Consider that too.
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I hear ya, I will only have the buttons replace the normal “rocker” style switch. The flaps are standard vans toggle with a wing shape cover from ACS. The pmags are the proper locking toggle. The maybe 7 push buttons will be color coded with dry transfer labeling and an illuminated light ring.
 
Jeremy: My thought is how are you going to handle debounce of them when you hit rough air and need to select something.... rockers and toggles are for the most part, rather stiff on their selection, compared to a button. For an easy demo, try selecting something on a touch screen while being severely bounced around in a car or truck, and still keep your eyes on a fixed location outside of the vehicle. Although it will take more pressure to make the switch than it will on a touch screen, the body will react the same while trying either action. Inadvertent selection could be a real problem for you.... Food for thought.
 
I've seen a couple of airplanes that use pushbuttons for lights and stuff and I've never been a fan. Unless they stay recessed, you have to physically look at them to see if they're off or on.

However, that's just a personal preference thing. I get why they might be cool in certain applications.

The most obvious objective reasons I can think of are that they require a bigger hole in the panel and more overall panel space than comparable toggle switches, and a good Honeywell mil-spec switch will be good for about 50,000 cycles, while these say they will last about 1/2 that.
 
cvairwerks said:
Jeremy: My thought is how are you going to handle debounce of them when you hit rough air and need to select something.... rockers and toggles are for the most part, rather stiff on their selection, compared to a button. For an easy demo, try selecting something on a touch screen while being severely bounced around in a car or truck, and still keep your eyes on a fixed location outside of the vehicle. Although it will take more pressure to make the switch than it will on a touch screen, the body will react the same while trying either action. Inadvertent selection could be a real problem for you.... Food for thought.
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That is a fair question and I can say that at work, firefighter AemtA, we have a couple of these buttons in our ambulance and fire truck. I can attest that the push is about a quarter inch or so into the socket to engage the button with a tactile “click”. This is where I got the idea for using them. I attempted finding and pressing them while responding on various surfaces including gravel. I did not have an issue finding/ feeling/ pressing to activate the switch because once you find it, your finger basically goes into the socket to press the button.
 
Desert Rat said:
I've seen a couple of airplanes that use pushbuttons for lights and stuff and I've never been a fan. Unless they stay recessed, you have to physically look at them to see if they're off or on.

However, that's just a personal preference thing. I get why they might be cool in certain applications.

The most obvious objective reasons I can think of are that they require a bigger hole in the panel and more overall panel space than comparable toggle switches, and a good Honeywell mil-spec switch will be good for about 50,000 cycles, while these say they will last about 1/2 that.
Click to expand...

Fair point. The ring will only illuminate when active. So for me that is adequate and doesn’t bother me. Personal preference. As for the bigger hole, you have a good point but for my particular panel set up I am either going with these or rocker switches, which require an even bigger cut out. I have weighed the option of toggles and have used them many years in Cessnas, pipers and such, but I wanted something a little more luxe for my plane. I will say the somewhat “eye level” seating position in the rv’s make seeing the buttons a better choice.

Again, these are all my thoughts and battles in my head. I love this feedback and I just wanted to let you guys know, I’ve thought about these things probably waaaaay more than I should have haha.
 
Well then, if it was these vs rockers and I didn't care about feeling them for position, I'd rather have these, simply because it's easier to drill a round hole for them.
 
FWIW, I installed illuminated rocker switches when I built my instrument panel back in 2012. As you can see in the attached photo they are color coded:

GREEN - "ON all time"
BLUE - "ON when flying"
YELLOW - "ON for lights"
RED - "Be careful if ON"

There is a dimmer for night flying which you can't see in the photo. They have worked perfectly, except the time I broke one of the connectors while working behind the panel. You can find several different kinds/sizes with a quick INTERNET search.

eMag Switches and Display.JPG
 
Note

Note that with the VPX, the lighted switches will require extra effort.

The switched circuits with the VPX are basically just providing an active low to the VPX; the VPX then switches the current in that circuit when the active low is detected.
 
Boeing had the quiet, dark cockpit philosophy, meaning, that the only things lit were things that needed attention. The normal state of illumination was off. Boeing also never used color as the only indication of status.

Also, there are issues of transfer: is experience with this cockpit consistent with other cockpits, past and future? The laws of human factors sometimes enforce themselves in untimely and occasionally fatal ways.

Design your cockpit and checklists together. Bland almost always beats spectacular in cockpit design. You get the idea…
 
I looked hard at this when planning my panel (the big airplanes at work use illuminated pushbuttons and I thought I could pull it off) but could not find switches that could handle the current requirements for some equipment, and didn't want to install a bunch of relays.

Eventually I realized it was going to be too much trouble, and went with milspec toggles. Found a good place to buy them that had quantity diacounts.
 
JeremyL said:
Has anyone done this or have a better thought on the pro v cons of utilizing illuminated push buttons like the ones below for all my switching, master,alt,nav, fuel pump, etc? I’ll be using vpx, so I’m not conference with the rating.


https://www.carlingtech.com/pushbutton-switches-av-avh-series
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Suggest you get 1 and take it outside. Apply light on/off. Can you tell?

I bought some toggles that had lights in the tip. similar idea, power on (switch is on), engage the light! Hah. Visible at night and that's about it. Very hard to tell in daylight (even not direct sun) whether the things are lit or not. Pretty sure they were Carling switches as well.
 
blaplante said:
Suggest you get 1 and take it outside. Apply light on/off. Can you tell?

I bought some toggles that had lights in the tip. similar idea, power on (switch is on), engage the light! Hah. Visible at night and that's about it. Very hard to tell in daylight (even not direct sun) whether the things are lit or not. Pretty sure they were Carling switches as well.
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Yes, in the cab of an ambulance I can confirm they can be seen well on a sunny day. I can only confirm this on red and white lights on silver buttons as that is what we have installed.
 
rmartingt said:
I looked hard at this when planning my panel (the big airplanes at work use illuminated pushbuttons and I thought I could pull it off) but could not find switches that could handle the current requirements for some equipment, and didn't want to install a bunch of relays.

Eventually I realized it was going to be too much trouble, and went with milspec toggles. Found a good place to buy them that had quantity diacounts.
Click to expand...

+1. One can’t beat the toggle providing the indication of the switch position. Plus the switches are mechanically and electrically bullet proof.
 
RVDan said:
+1. One can’t beat the toggle providing the indication of the switch position. Plus the switches are mechanically and electrically bullet proof.
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I have an email out to vpx to see how tricky the wiring would be for this particular button. If it turns out to be a headache with diodes and such I will probably just go with non lit simple rockers. Sincerely thank you all for the responses. It has definitely helped me think through it.
 
Switches

rocketman1988 said:
Note that with the VPX, the lighted switches will require extra effort.

The switched circuits with the VPX are basically just providing an active low to the VPX; the VPX then switches the current in that circuit when the active low is detected.
Click to expand...

Beat me to it. My ACM is very similar. I have a ground bus across the switch bank. Each switch would need a power circuit and connection to the switched side for ground. Seems like a diode would be required on each switch as well.
Might be worth a call the Vertical Power. I'm sure others have done it.
Love my Honeywell switches. Not cheap, but as they say, bulletproof. Plus, if one fails away from home, I can replace it with a Home Depot toggle till I get home.
 
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