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Primer - What type is best for RV-10 Empennage

C

CyberWarrior101

Active Member
I'm starting my empenage and am ready to begin priming parts.. I'm curious as to what's all needed to prime.. and what primer is the best and easiest to use.. I'd prefer a single water based cleanup solution to prime the internal parts of the Empenage.. I've heard of some out there (? Watkins??? ) that are easy to use.

so, for all you builders -what should I get to CLEAN the parts before priming and what's the best, light primer to be used on the internal/inside parts for the empenage, fuse, etc.

Thanks!!!

Ken
 
You're a brave soul to ask a question like that! I'm sure you'll get a different answer for every 2 members, but I'll tell you what I did for my -7.

To clean I started using MEK, but switched to Acetone because I felt it was less toxic (they use it in nail polish remover), then washed with Dawn dish detergent, rinsed well. Then etched with Alumiprep. Then Alodined. Then primed with Akzo.

Unfortunately, the best protection is also the most toxic, so you pay your money and take your choice. I was sold after an A&P ran a file (lightly) over a piece of scrap he primed with Akzo. He didn't bear down on the file of course, but the file didn't remove the primer. By contrast, I tried the self-etch spray can stuff. That came off with a rag wet with alcohol. So I think the Akzo slogan should be, "...let no man put asunder".

Good luck with whatever you choose.
 
You may not fet a lot of activity on this, since it has been beat to death in other threads. I suggest you do a Thread search. on "primer". You will find many diffrent opinions and products used.
As for me I did not prime the inside of my RV-8. On the 10 I have been using the same stuff Vans uses Sherwin Williams wash primer.
Good luck
Chad
RV-8 flying
RV10 building
 
Water bourne Primer

I at the same stage you are, and I've decided to go with Stewart Systems. They have a line called Eko-etch and Ekoprime that seems good.
 
Thanks so much... I tried a thread search but didnt get much results.. I'll try again , could have been a typo, it was late LOL :)

I've heard of Stewart systems.. Have you found it easy to use?? I'll research a bit and go from there . I guess one can't go wrong w/ following VANs suggestions either..

Thanks so much!
 
If you choose Sherwin Williams products...

For bare aluminum, use an etching primer E2G980 or E2G973 vinyl wash primer first, then a urethane primer P30 or sealer P30 with S41 converter and then topcoat with Genesis single stage.
That will provide a durable finish that will last for years. Other vendors use similar technology which is also good. For the best results, stay with one vendor's "system".

Make sure you wear gloves and a forced air respirator with etching products and paint. There's some pretty nasty chemicals in these products.
 
A good compromise for Priming

What I did which seemed to be easy, safe and gave good results was to clean the bare aluminum with scotchbrite and lots of Comet to remove oil and scuff the surface. make sure the water sheets rather than breaks up to confirm its clean. Then spray with a cheapo harbor freight gun using Variprime. I mix the variprime right in the gun cup, the clear part is an etch and the ratio isnt too important. When I first started building I used to etch, alodine then prime but after experimenting and testing by burying test pieces in the garden for 2 years or so it didnt make much difference.
A good thing about variprime is that any Dupont paint can go over it. being a lazy cheepskate I used Dupond Nason enamel which looks great.
 
For me I am using the Akzo Nobel for my rv10 emp and wings. For the fuse I will be using SEM grey. I don’t want to have the inside cabin green BECSUSE of the trim work etc I will be doing. I’ve seen others doing the same thing.
Akzo is also expensive- $500 for a 2 gallon set plus tax and shipping uggghhh
 
Primer

I do recommend a thorough search. Not because I want to be a pain but because you'll get a lot of information. Knowledge is power.

Prep...
I prefer Bon Ami cleanser and scotchbrite. No bleach or solvents.
I've seen all sorts of methods and every builder will tell you their method is the only one that works. I'm not sure there's a right or wrong but I use a cleanser to minimize exposure and it works for me. Kitchen sink safe.
Search for "aluminum oxide".

There is also an endless argument over order of operation. Which process first? Deburring, dimpling, scuffing, priming, etc. Search for any of the words.

Primers are a huge discussion. Vans used to spray P60G2 on QBs. I love the stuff but it's pretty toxic. It's light. Weight may not seem a big deal on one little part but add it up on a whole airplane and it's significant. Choose wisely.
Your thread is already in Never Ending Debate Section for Primers. Change the Display Options setting to From The "Begining" and you'll see every thread. Should give you several hours of reading material.

Finally, equipment.
Kinda depends a little on the product. Make that decision then shop for a spray gun. I love my Harbor Fright Black Widow HVLP HTE but a $15 HF will spray a primer just fne with practice.
 
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Stewart EkoPrime - Begin Commercial...

I've used quite a few different types of primer in my build, but my favorite by far is Ekoprime by Stewart. Sure, it's not as tough as a 2 part epoxy primer, but to be honest, I just don't see why most interior parts need bullet proof primer. And just because it's less durable or maybe has slightly less corrosion resistance than something else (like the toxic 2 part AKZO) doesn't mean it's not a great product. Some folks seem to get really caught up in finding the very best of X out there, not realizing that for the job at hand, the qualities of X may not actually matter in a practical sense. For my money and convenience factor, Ekoprime has been a hands down winner for the interior. After it cures, it takes a pretty significant amount of abuse to damage it. I usually scuff with scotchbrite, wipe down with acetone, then shoot primer. After testing a number of different approaches, I no longer do acid etch or super involved prep work.

https://vansairforce.net/community/showthread.php?t=199937

If I do scrape the primer off when I'm working on something, I just grab a small jar of it that I have sitting on the bench (have had the same small glass jar of it for over a year), stir it, and dab it on the scrape with a Q-tip. You can't do that with a 2 part primer that has a pot life.

For the cockpit area I did switch to Ekopoxy (2 part, but still waterborne) just for the high wear areas. The Ekoprime is so much more convenient, that I think if I were to do it again, I'd just use Ekoprime for this area too. One thing to note - the smoke grey color is very hard to see coverage of when spraying. I prefer the charcoal grey for that reason.
 
Everyone always says do a search but if 1.5 RVs get finished every day it implies 1.5 builders were where you are yesterday and the topic is fresh in their minds. Go ahead and ask. They will pipe-up along with the standard bearers.

Before I built mine I tested primers. The two most commonly mentioned spray can primers, the common water based primer and AKZO epoxy.

I found documents from AKZO Nobel that said degrease, scotchbrite and water rinse was an acceptable prep. I prepared identical samples and coated the parts. I tested adhesion with gorilla tape. Scratch resistance with a screwdriver, bending tests in a brake. I wish I had documented it better but there was no comparison to the epoxy.

As far as the toxicity goes MEK is not a very hazardous solvent. Everyone has a risk tolerance but you are going to spend a few hours exposed to a solvent priming an airplane that you will be flying burning lead for hundreds of hours. A little research satisfied me that a new well fitting organic vapor respirator was safe enough for me.
 
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Mikeyb said:
Everyone always says do a search but if 1.5 RVs get finished every day it implies 1.5 builders were where you were yesterday and the topic is fresh in their minds. Go ahead and ask. They will pipe-up along with the standard bearers.
Click to expand...
The irony here is that prior to two and a half hours before your post, the most recent post in this thread was from March of 2010.

:)
 
Larry: I second that HF black widow spray gun! I have the same and am using it for priming with Akzo on my 10! It sprays great:)
 
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