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Painting service agreement questions

bertschb

bertschb

Well Known Member
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I’m planning for paint now and the shop I’m considering has a 15 month lead time. They recommend that I get on their schedule because of their lead time. In order to do that they want a deposit and offer two options for the deposit:
  • 50% down with second half due at completion of project
  • 10% down, 25% due when airplane arrives, 25% at mid point and balance at completion
The down payment is based on the project estimate. Final price is based on time and materials.

Does this sound like a typical service agreement? Also, why would anybody choose to pay a 50% deposit vs 10%?
 
bertschb said:
I’m planning for paint now and the shop I’m considering has a 15 month lead time. They recommend that I get on their schedule because of their lead time. In order to do that they want a deposit and offer two options for the deposit:
  • 50% down with second half due at completion of project
  • 10% down, 25% due when airplane arrives, 25% at mid point and balance at completion
The down payment is based on the project estimate. Final price is based on time and materials.

Does this sound like a typical service agreement? Also, why would anybody choose to pay a 50% deposit vs 10%?
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The second is acceptable but I would never agree to the first one. Why would they even need 50% 15 month in advance?
 
Paul Thomas said:
The second is acceptable but I would never agree to the first one. Why would they even need 50% 15 month in advance?
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I would bet there are a lot of people who think "I can finish in 15 months, yeah, i'll be ready for paint then" and then find out that things take longer than planned and they aren't ready after all. Leaving the paint shop with a void in their schedule and their revenue stream. Getting a 50% deposit ensures they're covered if the customer bails and they can't replace them with someone else on short notice.
 
Snowflake said:
I would bet there are a lot of people who think "I can finish in 15 months, yeah, i'll be ready for paint then" and then find out that things take longer than planned and they aren't ready after all.
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This is the other part that concerns me. I'm at the mercy of Vans delivering my finish kit and engine "on time" (both ordered a year ago). When I ordered my engine, the lead time was 18-24 months. Now it's 36-48 months. I'm really struggling with estimating my completion date because of this uncertainty.
 
bertschb said:
This is the other part that concerns me. I'm at the mercy of Vans delivering my finish kit and engine "on time" (both ordered a year ago). When I ordered my engine, the lead time was 18-24 months. Now it's 36-48 months. I'm really struggling with estimating my completion date because of this uncertainty.
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Sounds like a 10% deposit is the way to go then. :) Or book your painting slot much later on. Many people fly their plane for months (or years) before painting it.
 
bertschb said:
I’m planning for paint now and the shop I’m considering has a 15 month lead time. They recommend that I get on their schedule because of their lead time. In order to do that they want a deposit and offer two options for the deposit:
  • 50% down with second half due at completion of project
  • 10% down, 25% due when airplane arrives, 25% at mid point and balance at completion
The down payment is based on the project estimate. Final price is based on time and materials.

Does this sound like a typical service agreement? Also, why would anybody choose to pay a 50% deposit vs 10%?
Click to expand...
shop that painted my plane required no deposit up front to get in queue. Then 50 percent deposit upon arrival and balance in full upon completion. No penalty if I cancelled.
 
Snowflake said:
I would bet there are a lot of people who think "I can finish in 15 months, yeah, i'll be ready for paint then" and then find out that things take longer than planned and they aren't ready after all. Leaving the paint shop with a void in their schedule and their revenue stream. Getting a 50% deposit ensures they're covered if the customer bails and they can't replace them with someone else on short notice.
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A company doesn't profit 50% on a paint job. If they are, I'm opening a paint shop! 10% is reasonable, especially when you have such a backlog... if a customer doesn't show up, you can move someone else up the line.
 
Fulltron does not require any deposit at any point.i personally dont see the need to.we have no problem filing in any void in our schedule.
 
bertschb said:
I’m planning for paint now and the shop I’m considering has a 15 month lead time. They recommend that I get on their schedule because of their lead time. In order to do that they want a deposit and offer two options for the deposit:
  • 50% down with second half due at completion of project
  • 10% down, 25% due when airplane arrives, 25% at mid point and balance at completion
The down payment is based on the project estimate. Final price is based on time and materials.

Does this sound like a typical service agreement? Also, why would anybody choose to pay a 50% deposit vs 10%?
Click to expand...
 
I would never sign an open ended contract like this, without some protection against the shop going crazy and doubling the price (look at what’s happening at Vans right now). Something like, ‘deposit fully refundable if final cost exceeds 110% of the estimate’.
 
Whike you can worry about the financials, deposits, and the link, you really need to step back and look at the big picture. Unless you have everything in hand that you need to finish, and have built several airplanes before, you have no idea when you’ll finish, or be ready for paint. Fifteen months from now? I predict you’ll still be waiting on an engine - at the very least. Take a dep breath and look at the chain of events needed to get to the finish line.

Only once have I painted an airplane before first flight - and that was a very straightforward build with everything on hand.
 
Ironflight said:
...you have no idea when you’ll finish, or be ready for paint.
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Oh, I know that Paul. But, everything about this airplane build requires planning. You can't just wait until you are ready to install the interior and then order it. If you do, you'll have to wait seven months for it to arrive. Avionics and paint are the same.

What I started doing as part of my lengthy research phase before my first kit arrived was search for as many build logs as I could find and document how many hours each of the builders took to complete their kits. As I've progressed in my build I'm comparing my build times to theirs. That gives me a rough idea of how long my build will take. I started my build five months ago and have completed the empennage and I'm probably half way done with the fuselage. I average five hours a day in the hangar working on the airplane, seven days a week. I have my wing kit and I ordered my finish kit a year ago.

Based on all of that, I have a rough idea of when I'll be done with everything behind the firewall. The engine, of course, is the wild card. No clue on that. I ordered mine a year ago., The lead time back then was 18-24 months. Now it's 36-48.

Bottom line - I'm not waiting until I finish the airplane to add my name to the wait list for paint. I'll give my painter my best guess as to when I'll be ready and the painter will clearly understand it's a guess. That's the best I can do.
 
I had my plane painted in Nov 2023. the summer of 2023 was crazy busy for these paint shops and I was concern I would have to wait a while. But I didn't panic and waited till I was ready financially and the plane was flying well (no more changes). I found a paint shop that could take me right away.

I think the crazy lead times are coming down, so if I was you, I would be less inclined to sweat the lead times until first flight. Lots of things could happen in a year; it would be a shame to kiss the deposit goodbye.

Paint shops seem to come and go. sometimes based on politics out of the shops control. JMHO
 
bertschb said:
Oh, I know that Paul. But, everything about this airplane build requires planning. You can't just wait until you are ready to install the interior and then order it. If you do, you'll have to wait seven months for it to arrive. Avionics and paint are the same.
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The difference is, you're not blocked without paint. You can fly for 15 months while you wait for your paint shop opening.
 
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