One G3X or Two?

[Ron Earp]

I'm getting ready to start laying out and assembling my panel. I've decided on the avionics and have purchased them from Stein, but now I'm having thoughts of adding a second display. Here is what I have so far:

10" G3X - PFD
G5 backup with integrated battery backup
GTN 650 Xi - Navigator, COM1, NAV radio
GTX-45R - remote transponder, ADSB in/out
GTR-20 - remote COM2
GMC 507 - autopilot
GMA 245 audio panel

I had originally thought I'd mount my ipad on the passenger side of the panel, but now I'm thinking that maybe I'd like another G3X over there (10" or 7") so that I could declutter the PFD by displaying engine instruments, nav map, and so on on the 2nd unit.

The thing is, I don't have any experience with the G3X or glass panel displays. All my flying has been with steam gauges augmented by G5s and a Garmin navigator, so I don't have a good feeling of how useful a second display would be, thus, I'm looking for guidance.

Thoughts?

Thanks,
Ron

 

[Sportquattro]

From personal experience if you can afford to fit a 2nd G3X Touch screen then I absolutely would. I didn't, I have my G3X Touch in front of my and a Garmin 695 in front of the co-pilot seat along with an iPad Mini running Garmin Pilot, don't get me wrong it's a nice panel, but in hindsight a 2nd G3X would have been a better bet than using the 695.

 

[mountainride]

In my opinion the 2nd g3x is for the copilot. Its too far away to read information to use it in the left seat. If your copilot is flying regularly a second g3x would be nice. I chose a single g3x with Ipad. The Ipad has a sentry with a completely independent AHRS system, the flight plans sync automatically between the Garmin system and Foreflight is a better system for passengers. I also prefer the weather, airport diagrams etc better on the Ipad. Food for thought.

 

[PilotjohnS]

Yes

If you can afford it, I would do 2 screens. Others have an ipad instead, but i found ipads hard to read, and mine tended to overheat, especially at altitude.

 

[Carl Froehlich]

Mission? Mostly VFR or mostly IFR?

Carl

 

[9GT]

I hate the iPad in the cockpit due to the washout of the screen in strong sunlight. Get the second G3X screen if you can afford it and you can carry the iPad with you as dead weight if you want to. I love my iPad,,,at home!

 

[Ed_Wischmeyer]

Two screens is very definitely the way to go, no question.

Some folks misunderstand that the right screen would only be for a copilot. T'ain't so... The trick is to realize where the information content is on the screen. Looking to the right screen, if it is allocated to a full size window, then the information is in the middle of the window/screen. But if the screen is allocated to two windows, then the window closer to the center of the screen is very usable for the left side pilot.

With both screens in split-screen mode, the pilot has two MFD (half size but with 99% of the information) windows, plus a PFD. Put engine instruments on the outside of each screen and you're done. (This puts the power indications right next to the airspeed, very handy on an ILS. And power gauges on the right was done historically out of necessity.)

As for standby, having a G5 is wonderful. It gives a dedicated knob for altimeter settings, and as for backup... the G5 has different hardware and software from the rest of the system, protecting you from common mode problems. And if the G3X ADHRS poops out, you've still got basic air data. (You lose OAT, wind, and AOA, none of which are critical. No snide comments from the AOA crowd, please, no hijacking the thread.)

The last reason for the extra screen is sunlight readability and freedom from device overheat. I've had iPads and iPhones overheat in the RV-8 and RV-9A.

Two screens. Absolutely. And if I could afford the downtime and rewiring expense, I'd love to have a 750 and have one more...

 

[Bruce]

If you can afford it, I would do 2 screens. Others have an ipad instead, but i found ipads hard to read, and mine tended to overheat, especially at altitude.

I like the ATIS reminder wheel
Nice idea

I was old school
Grease pencil on canopy

Boomer

 

[Carl Froehlich]

SNIP

Some folks misunderstand that the right screen would only be for a copilot. T'ain't so...

+1

On my IFR check ride in the RV-10 the “Partial Panel” part was done with the left EFIS off. The approach was easy just using the right screen. The examiner’s comment was “that’s cheating” but I got the sign off.

Carl

 

[rvanstory]

If possible, I'd definitely go with two. I have both of mine on pilot's side of panel. With the split screen mode, it gives me ability to have "4 screens" up at once. 1) PFD 2) Engine monitor 3) Track Up Map 4) North Up Sectional. Been flying this setup for nearly 500 hours now and I wouldn't change a thing.

 

[rockwoodrv9]

Consider placing the two screens together. I like this setup but not the location of the A/P and Radio. I have a new panel cut where the radio and A/P are below the second screen allowing an Ipad to be swivel mounted on the far right. I have never used the radio control to tune in a frequency. The only button I have ever used is the Monitor button to listen to 2 frequencies. I do use the A/P control panel.

As much as I like the G3x, Foreflight has many features that the Garmin doesnt. I would miss the second screen if I eliminated the right G3x. I have the VPX power system and it has a dedicated page on the right screen.

 

[MikeinPhoenix]

If you can afford it, I would do 2 screens. Others have an ipad instead, but i found ipads hard to read, and mine tended to overheat, especially at altitude.

+1 for a second G3X. I’ve flown for many years with an iPad and they always seem to overheat and shut down right when you really need them.

 

[FireMedic_2009]

If you really think about it, is it necessary? No. Your backup is the G5. Is it nice? Yes. I had a 6A with a 10” and G5 with an iPad to the rt of the stack. I loved it and am doing it again with 6 I’m finishing up.

 

[Planecrazy232]

Two but..

Two screens but the second one is a 470. Mini iPad on a Ram mount on the yoke.

 

[Mhesser]

Thread hijack How about an RV8?

this post is so timely, I am planning my panel upgrade and this is the last decision I have to make. go with two 10" g3X's with the gns430W on top or a g3x and a G5 backup. IFR panel looks like the consensus is to do 2 panels, does it change your opinion with a smaller panel?

 

[mburch]

A tip that will help you when talking to an avionics dealer, tech support, or anyone else really...

G3X is the name of the complete system, which comprises a variety of interconnected equipment, including from 1 to 6 GDU displays.

The number of "G3Xes" in a single aircraft will only ever be zero or one!

 

[mfleming]

Two screens but the second one is a 470. Mini iPad on a Ram mount on the yoke.

I agree with having a second 7" screen right next to the 10" screen. The third screen in my setup is useful but is really for the right seater (they love it)

 

[iamtheari]

My RV-14 has two 10" G3X Touch displays and a GTN 650 Xi. If I were going to build a panel today, I would go with a single 10" G3X Touch and a GTN 750 Xi. The 750 in the center of the panel would be a more useful MFD than the G3X on the copilot side of the plane. And the 750 has a better UI than the 650 in a variety of subtle ways even beyond the larger screen.

Even with the panel I have, I rarely interact with the copilot side G3X Touch. It's just too far over there. If I didn't have it, I would not miss it. Whenever I need another MFD display, I end up switching back and forth on the pilot side G3X rather than reaching and looking all the way across the panel.

 

[TASEsq]

I agree with having a second 7" screen right next to the 10" screen. The third screen in my setup is useful but is really for the right seater (they love it)

Is your plan to use the 7” in the middle as primarily an engine instrument display? It is possible to remove the engine instruments from the left PFD and have them only on the centre screen? (And the PFD would essentially become 2 windows - the “6 pack” side and the map.

 

[bmellis11]

this post is so timely, I am planning my panel upgrade and this is the last decision I have to make. go with two 10" g3X's with the gns430W on top or a g3x and a G5 backup. IFR panel looks like the consensus is to do 2 panels, does it change your opinion with a smaller panel?

I'm building an RV-8 and thought about doing two G3Xs for a short while. After researching, I found that (1) you need a G5 backup not just for redundancy, but also for the dissimilar architecture that will prevent you from losing all your EFIS's at once (which could happen if you have two G3X displays only), and (2) if you squeeze two 10" G3X screens into the RV-8 panel then you have to have the screens very low on the panel, which makes them harder to see when you're flying (and you still really need the G5). Some people are ok with that. Here's a good example: https://www.garmin.com/en-US/blog/aviation/eaa-airventure-oshkosh-2018-vans-rv-8/

I think the one 10" screen is wide enough to comfortably display the same info you would be able to display on two 10" screens. Some people do a 10" G3X screen, a 7" G3X screen and a G5. I'm going with a 10" G3X screen, a GTN750, and a G5. I figure the added cost of a GTN750 over a GTN650 is not much more than the cost of getting a 7" G3X screen and it will be more useful to me than the 7" screen.

 

[ronrapp]

I am one of those who have a single screen G3X system with a G5 and an iPad in the panel. I don't really miss having a second screen, but I wouldn't mind it either. I like the way the iPad is integrated into the panel; my most frequent passenger is my 8 year old son, who loves having his own map and instrument display (it's running Foreflight). What I love is the ability to pop it out and take it home, update the software, or even replace the thing if it breaks.

I like the symmetry of this panel with each side having a display, and the radio stack in the center. I'm already set up for a Garmin navigator (you can see the cut out in the top of the radio stack), but haven't done that yet.

Regarding the iPad overheating issue, this panel mitigates that with a fan built into the back side of the mount. I haven't seen it shut down yet, even on the hottest of days, but if I leave the iPad sitting in the direct sun on a hot day with the canopy closed and then start up, the lack of airflow will cause the iPad to generate a "iPad is too hot" message.

This airplane is an RV-6, so it's running on a lower budget than the $180,000 RV-7s and such that are out there. . Still, I think the bang-for-the-buck is sufficiently high with this panel.

--Ron

 

[mfleming]

Is your plan to use the 7” in the middle as primarily an engine instrument display? It is possible to remove the engine instruments from the left PFD and have them only on the centre screen? (And the PFD would essentially become 2 windows - the “6 pack” side and the map.

The 7" in the middle, in my case, is used for whatever seems necessary at the time. In cruise, I generally have the 10" in split screen mode. You can have all the engine data show up on the 7" all the time but I like the engine info on the left side of the 10". During leaning operations I have the 7" display the engine info because there's more granular info. Then if I'm in a high traffic environment, the Traffic page is on the 7". The main reason I put the 7" right next to the 10" is to display full size approach plates while the 10" is in split screen with the map page up.

I don't have a good photo of the 10" and 7" both configured how I like it. but this is how the 10" is usually configured.

 

[Finley Atherton]

How about a small EFIS/EMS such as the GRT Mini-X EFIS or MGL XTreme instead of a second large screen. I have a 10” screen (without EMS module), G5 and a MGL Xtreme (with EMS module) which can display flight instruments AND/OR EMS. I usually display EMS on the MGL and one button push can display the flight instruments ( still get EMS warnings).

Advantages:
Save panel space. You could stack the G5 and Mini EFIS on the far left side of the panel then the 10” screen then the IFR navigator. I have a similar arrangement and even have room for the Van’s map box.
All flight instruments more in line of sight.
Three independent flight instruments displays with different software.

Disadvantages:
The mini EFIS may not have the ability to display all the parameters of the large display. My MGL Xtreme has a very comprehensive EMS display but will not display things like Trim or Flap position - don’t know what the GRT can display.
I guess I could get the large screen EMS module and just display these ancillary items??

Fin
9A

 

[Tim 8-A]

I'm building an RV-8 and thought about doing two G3Xs for a short while. After researching, I found that (1) you need a G5 backup not just for redundancy, but also for the dissimilar architecture that will prevent you from losing all your EFIS's at once (which could happen if you have two G3X displays only), and (2) if you squeeze two 10" G3X screens into the RV-8 panel then you have to have the screens very low on the panel, which makes them harder to see when you're flying (and you still really need the G5). Some people are ok with that. Here's a good example: https://www.garmin.com/en-US/blog/aviation/eaa-airventure-oshkosh-2018-vans-rv-8/

I think the one 10" screen is wide enough to comfortably display the same info you would be able to display on two 10" screens. Some people do a 10" G3X screen, a 7" G3X screen and a G5. I'm going with a 10" G3X screen, a GTN750, and a G5. I figure the added cost of a GTN750 over a GTN650 is not much more than the cost of getting a 7" G3X screen and it will be more useful to me than the 7" screen.

Here is a pic of my 8a and is a very similar with the portrait G3x. I’m very happy with it.

 

[skelrad]

Consider placing the two screens together. I like this setup but not the location of the A/P and Radio. I have a new panel cut where the radio and A/P are below the second screen allowing an Ipad to be swivel mounted on the far right. I have never used the radio control to tune in a frequency. The only button I have ever used is the Monitor button to listen to 2 frequencies. I do use the A/P control panel.

As much as I like the G3x, Foreflight has many features that the Garmin doesnt. I would miss the second screen if I eliminated the right G3x. I have the VPX power system and it has a dedicated page on the right screen.

Are you having to extend the panel to get the radio and A/P control below the second screen? I really like the idea of having the two larger screens side-by-side, but wasn't sure if the reach to the radio/nav stack would be annoying.

 

[bob.obreiter]

I am one of those who have a single screen G3X system with a G5 and an iPad in the panel.

--Ron

Nice clean panel you have there, Ron. What Ipad mount did you use for that large Ipad Pro?

Bob Obreiter
2023 Dues Paid

 

[rockwoodrv9]

Are you having to extend the panel to get the radio and A/P control below the second screen? I really like the idea of having the two larger screens side-by-side, but wasn't sure if the reach to the radio/nav stack would be annoying.

I extended the panel to fit the radio and A/P control units below the screens. On the far side of I will mount a RAM ball mount with the 3” extension for the iPad. The height of the panel is 13-1/4” high. On my plane it will fit fine without the stick hitting the bottom. It is just about 1/2” taller than my current panel.

 

[ronrapp]

Nice clean panel you have there, Ron. What Ipad mount did you use for that large Ipad Pro?

It's the Guardian Avionics smartPanel mount for the iPad Pro 9.7". It's an older iPad model now, but it seems to work just fine. Thankfully, Foreflight is not terribly taxing for the iPad considering how much functionality it provides.

The mount has bee modified to include a cut-out for a small fan.

--Ron

 

[Ron Earp]

Wow, thanks for all the replies. Good ideas here and gives me a lot to think about. I had not considered mounting the two MFDs side by side as some of you have done or suggested. That is something to consider. On the one hand it'd make it easy to use both displays, but it'd make it more difficult to use the navigator, audio panel, and the AP.

My initial layout was to have the 10" MFD on the left in front of the pilot. The center stack would have the G5 at the top, next would be the audio panel, then navigator, and at the bottom would be the AP. My thinking was that I wanted the AP on the bottom near prop and mixture controls, so it'd be easy for my hand to reach up and make a change. This seems logical to me, but I'm laying something like this out for the first time so comments welcome.

I think I would like to put a second MFD in the panel. Since I have the G5 I think I'll use the same ADHRs as the first MFD. The question is will it be a 10" or 7"? There is about a $900 difference between the two, but I think given the overall cost, $4250 vs $3333, possibly the 10" unit might be the way to go.

 

[iamtheari]

I just thought of another reason to get more GTNs and fewer G3X Touch screens: database updates. The GTNs can use Database Sync between each other and they transfer updates very quickly. The G3X Touch takes about 15 minutes per display to install updates from an SD card.

 

[ColoradoSolar]

I just thought of another reason to get more GTNs and fewer G3X Touch screens: database updates. The GTNs can use Database Sync between each other and they transfer updates very quickly. The G3X Touch takes about 15 minutes per display to install updates from an SD card.

Just have multiple SD cards with the database update on them and do all G3X screens at the same time. Even doing that I do wish they would update quicker.