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New Whirlwind 330 Props

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pilotstev

I'm New Here
Hi Vans Airforce! This is my first post, so be gentle :)

I purchased the Whirlwind 330-2B (2 bladed) composite constant speed propeller for my RV-7A project. I have the Superior XP-360 parallel valve 8.5:1 compression engine. I am excited to see the performance of this set up.

I wanted to share my experience while attempting to install over Christmas. The new 330 series propellers first of all are RAD! I love the design and the specs. One improvement over the 300 series is a beefed-up hub according to the manufacturer. An interesting difference between the 330 and other prop models they required shorter prop lugs on the crankshaft. The install manual says lugs must only protrude beyond flywheel between 0.18" - 0.20". This appears to be non-standard, and I now find myself milling the original prop lug shanks down to a custom length of .815". It requires removal of 0.163", almost 3/16". My engine guy looked through his shop and was unable to find lugs of this length.

I purchased lugs from Saber specifically designed for Whirlwind props, but they did not meet this new spec as they arrived with a 0.99" shank. They fit the 300 and 200 series WW props. The 330 is a new animal.

Standard constant speed lugs typically have 4 protruding and 2 flush. The 3 bladed version of the WW 330 prop has only 4 bored out holes in the hub to receive the standard constant speed lug design. My WW 330-2B has all 6 holes bored out. I believe this is because the 3-bladed has to be clocked a certain way, where the 2 bladed doesn't necessarily. This is why I ended up deciding to machine the longer lugs down. There is enough UNTHREADED material in the lugs that a reduction in 3/16" in length will still leave a 1/8" before reaching the threads.

I just wanted to raise awareness on this if you are going to utilize the WW 330-2B prop, and hopefully save you some time. I think Saber was unaware Whirlwind changed the depth of the lug bores in the prop hub. Their lugs are amazing. The machine work is the best I've seen, but in my case, I will just go with the old lugs milled to spec.

Cheers,

Steve
RV-7A Started 2021
 
Saber Manufacturing

Welcome. A very good and interesting post. I just purchased lugs and crush plates from Sam at Saber and agree, they rock!
 
Appreciate the info

pilotstev said:
I just wanted to raise awareness on this if you are going to utilize the WW 330-2B prop, and hopefully save you some time.
Click to expand...

Thanks for posting! I am not as far along on my build but am seriously considering the same engine/prop combo for when the time comes.
 
Interesting they would design like that, a prop change would then necessitate changing the lugs back to “stock”.
 
I will definitely get some pics tomorrow! Thanks for all the welcome messages. This website and the Vans Community have been extremely helpful in my build. I am glad to finally contribute.
 
330-3B

My 330-3B
It’ll get mounted if I ever get an engine mount
 

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pilotstev said:
Hi Vans Airforce! This is my first post, so be gentle :)

I purchased the Whirlwind 330-2B (2 bladed) composite constant speed propeller for my RV-7A project. I have the Superior XP-360 parallel valve 8.5:1 compression engine. I am excited to see the performance of this set up.

I wanted to share my experience while attempting to install over Christmas. The new 330 series propellers first of all are RAD! I love the design and the specs. One improvement over the 300 series is a beefed-up hub according to the manufacturer. An interesting difference between the 330 and other prop models they required shorter prop lugs on the crankshaft. The install manual says lugs must only protrude beyond flywheel between 0.18" - 0.20". This appears to be non-standard, and I now find myself milling the original prop lug shanks down to a custom length of .815". It requires removal of 0.163", almost 3/16". My engine guy looked through his shop and was unable to find lugs of this length.

I purchased lugs from Saber specifically designed for Whirlwind props, but they did not meet this new spec as they arrived with a 0.99" shank. They fit the 300 and 200 series WW props. The 330 is a new animal.

Standard constant speed lugs typically have 4 protruding and 2 flush. The 3 bladed version of the WW 330 prop has only 4 bored out holes in the hub to receive the standard constant speed lug design. My WW 330-2B has all 6 holes bored out. I believe this is because the 3-bladed has to be clocked a certain way, where the 2 bladed doesn't necessarily. This is why I ended up deciding to machine the longer lugs down. There is enough UNTHREADED material in the lugs that a reduction in 3/16" in length will still leave a 1/8" before reaching the threads.

I just wanted to raise awareness on this if you are going to utilize the WW 330-2B prop, and hopefully save you some time. I think Saber was unaware Whirlwind changed the depth of the lug bores in the prop hub. Their lugs are amazing. The machine work is the best I've seen, but in my case, I will just go with the old lugs milled to spec.

Cheers,

Steve
RV-7A Started 2021
Click to expand...

My main purpose of this post is to ask are there any competitive data out there for the 330 compared to the 300? Looks like an interesting design and I wonder why WW would still continue to sell both or is Jim going to phase out the 300 series. I have purchased 4 WW props (3- 300 series and a 378 all three blade and really like them). The 330 series prop is about 4 lbs. heavier. It would be interesting to see what the op's manual stated for drive lug and countersink specs.

The prop hub change is a little strange and wonder the logic behind it. The manual does not seem to indicate a change was made which adds to the confusion. For me all 4 props came with drive lugs. I did not measure them but since one of my props is off now certainly can. The 300 series manual has the same call out for 0.18 to 0.20 drive lug extension which all of mine do.

Maybe Kit Planes can have another fly off, would be interesting to see climb and cruise performance on the same airframe.
 

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  • 300_Series_Propeller_WWPC_Owner_s_Manual__v16.pdf
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  • 330_Series_WWPC_Owner_s_Manual_v8.pdf
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Can’t open the WW webpage to verify; but if memory serves, the heavier legacy design is more tolerant of torsional vibes. So higher CR engines still need the associated extra design margin.
 
Bicyclops said:
At first blush, the 300 series will fit a 320 or 360 and the 330 will do 360, 375, 390, and 540 engines.

Ed
Click to expand...

The 300-3B/B-(77 or 79) calls out a IO-540 & IO-390. Review PDF. I should know I have one on my 540 !!
 
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You're right. I didn't see it the first time. The blade design is different. Maybe some like the looks better?

Ed
 
I have an IO-375 with 9:1 CR, being set up for aerobatics. I sent my engine data to Whirlwind, asking which of the 300/330 series they recommended, and they replied:

Given the added horsepower of your IO-375, we would recommend going with our 330 series of propeller.
 
This post had me a bit concerned as I just recently installed a new 3 blade 330 on my Rocket along with a Saber extension. When we installed it I did not measure the drive lugs so reading this had me planning on possibly pulling the prop this weekend to make sure the lugs were to spec. A quick conversation with Sam at Saber saved me a lot of work. There is no issue with the length of the lugs they supply on their extensions as long as you specify that you are using it with a constant speed prop.

Danny
 
Update from Sam at Saber

Hey folks,

Just a quick update. Sam at Saber has lugs that fit these props. I just spoke to him today. The shank on his new lugs measures .830". I ended up milling mine down to .820, meeting the spec of 0.18" to 0.20" lug protrusion from flywheel, and providing just under 0.90" of thread engagement with the prop bolts (min is 0.60").

Wish I was a little more patient with Saber waiting for an update on those lugs over the holidays, but the ones I have are more than sufficient.

Steve
 
Hello Everyone,

We just want to clarify a couple of things about our 300 Series and 330 Series C/S propellers and hub mounting drive lug configuration.

First, the easiest one, all Whirlwind C/S propellers have the standard drive lug configuration (length of drive lug) as called out for Lycoming engines configured for C/S propellers. This standard was set by Lycoming many decades ago. McCauley, Hartzell, MT or any C/S propeller interface to the crankshaft is the same for all Lycoming engines with the exception of 320 vs 360 (5/8 drive lugs 7/16 studs vs ¾ drive lugs and ½ studs- respectively).

Below is a basic overview for our 300 Series and 330 Series of Constant Speed propellers:

-The 300 Series propeller is a light weight and efficient propeller with a 3-blade constant speed system designed for 4-Cylinder Lycoming, non-counterweighted engines (0320-160HP and 0360-180HP), straight valve 0540-260HP, as well as counter weighted angle valve IO-360-IO390 engines. There are some compression ratio limitations with the 300 series propellers.

-The 330 Series 2-Blade propeller has the same 4-Cylinder Lycoming engine applications as the 300 series propellers.

-The 330 Series 3-Blade propeller is basically can go with all the engines already mentioned as well as everything else. Meaning, all the non-counterweighted angle valve IO-360 and all Lycoming IO-540’s through IO-580’s engines. No compression or ignition restrictions with these propellers.

Attached are 300 and 330 propeller application data sheets that go in more detail than the general overview mentioned.

Best regards,
Whirl Wind Propellers
 

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  • 300 Series A-72 Propeller Overview.pdf
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  • 300 Series B-77 Propeller Overview.pdf
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  • 330 Series 2-Blade 72 Propeller Overview.pdf
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  • 330 Series 3-Blade 73 Propeller Overview.pdf
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  • 330 Series 3-Blade 78 Propeller Overview.pdf
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Hey everyone!

I have a 330-2B/72H-72-C on my RV-8. First of all this prop has performed absolutely amazing in comparison to my old hartzell 2 bladed prop. I am curious, has anyone here had any issues with grease or oil leaks out of the hub? I noticed a grease leak starting at about 35 hours in of operation and today I just found some engine oil leaking down one of the blades, originating from the hub. It’s got right at 60 hours of use and has been amazing so far! I absolutely love it. I just wasn’t sure if this was normal or not.

- Gabe
 
Gabe214 said:
Hey everyone!

I have a 330-2B/72H-72-C on my RV-8. First of all this prop has performed absolutely amazing in comparison to my old hartzell 2 bladed prop. I am curious, has anyone here had any issues with grease or oil leaks out of the hub? I noticed a grease leak starting at about 35 hours in of operation and today I just found some engine oil leaking down one of the blades, originating from the hub. It’s got right at 60 hours of use and has been amazing so far! I absolutely love it. I just wasn’t sure if this was normal or not.

- Gabe
Click to expand...
It's not engine oil of course. It's the grease used by WW, MT and others. Not sure when your WW was produced but around 3 years ago WW found the grease being used separated, especially after a few months of non-use. They went to a "new" grease that had better separation characteristics. Sometimes it takes a few months for even the new grease to separate and come out a hub. The good news the majority of the time it will dissipate and stop. It's a little dependent on the amount of grease used for a re-seal or even in the original build. (My view) My reseal did not leak for the first 30 or 40 hrs., then started spitting for 20 or 30 hrs., and now seems to have stopped. It's a great prop but spitting grease seems to be in the DNA of the design at least for a while. Good luck and don't give up.
 
I am concerned with the need to mill prop bolts.

I worry this subjects the bolt to heating and stresses during the machining process.
I know they might use flood coolant still you are modifying a critical part.
 
Any actual performance data on these in lets say an RV9?

How well do they compare to the Hartzell?

Tim
 
dmattmul said:
It's not engine oil of course. It's the grease used by WW, MT and others. Not sure when your WW was produced but around 3 years ago WW found the grease being used separated, especially after a few months of non-use. They went to a "new" grease that had better separation characteristics. Sometimes it takes a few months for even the new grease to separate and come out a hub. The good news the majority of the time it will dissipate and stop. It's a little dependent on the amount of grease used for a re-seal or even in the original build. (My view) My reseal did not leak for the first 30 or 40 hrs., then started spitting for 20 or 30 hrs., and now seems to have stopped. It's a great prop but spitting grease seems to be in the DNA of the design at least for a while. Good luck and don't give up.
Click to expand...
This is fantastic to hear. My prop is less than a year old. I was really dreading the thought of potentially having to pull the prop and ship it off to get looked at. I also found a piece of plastic coming out from behind the blades snap ring (see photo). I'm not sure why it's doing that but it was a find today. I can live with some grease spitting out. Heck, if there's no issue or concern needed that's all the better for me. I did send Hector an email, I'll follow up with his findings. Customer support in the past has always been fantastic and the prop performs superbly. I saw a total cruise gain of 6-8 knots consistently at altitude over my old Hartzell prop from 2003. Takeoff and Climb Performance improved also, especially in cold air. The 330-2B pulls like a freight train! I will say, I wish I had gone with the 3B but at the same time, the weight loss was just about perfect with the 2B.

- Gabriel
 

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riobison said:
Any actual performance data on these in lets say an RV9?

How well do they compare to the Hartzell?

Tim
Click to expand...
Not an RV-9, but we did an extensive article comparing the Whirlwind 300, Hartzell composite three-blade, and metal Hartzell at Kitplanes a couple years back…..

www.kitplanes.com

Three Vs. Three - KITPLANES

A rare chance to get solid numbers on two new-generation composite props.
www.kitplanes.com www.kitplanes.com
 
Gabe214 said:
This is fantastic to hear. My prop is less than a year old. I was really dreading the thought of potentially having to pull the prop and ship it off to get looked at. I also found a piece of plastic coming out from behind the blades snap ring (see photo). I'm not sure why it's doing that but it was a find today. I can live with some grease spitting out. Heck, if there's no issue or concern needed that's all the better for me. I did send Hector an email, I'll follow up with his findings. Customer support in the past has always been fantastic and the prop performs superbly. I saw a total cruise gain of 6-8 knots consistently at altitude over my old Hartzell prop from 2003. Takeoff and Climb Performance improved also, especially in cold air. The 330-2B pulls like a freight train! I will say, I wish I had gone with the 3B but at the same time, the weight loss was just about perfect with the 2B.

- Gabriel
Click to expand...
The plastic most likely is the shim (or part of one) that goes behind the snap ring. Check the tip tolerance it will start to exceed specs. Regardless talk to Hectar about sending you the rebuild parts. The seepage most likely started when the shim came loose and allowed gaps in the hub. It's not difficult to fix. (The plastic piece coming out IF it is part of the shim is a guess that this is causing the spitting, WW blades have been known to spit for at least a little while even with good shims in place, FYI)
 
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