New Airflow Performance servo for the EXP119

[Halleffect]

In one of Greg Hughes' presentations at OSH, he mentioned a new fuel servo for the EXP119. I mentioned it to Chris at Lycoming Thunderbolt and he knew nothing about it. Did anyone happen to pick up any details? When does it start shipping on new engines, etc.

 

[Carl Froehlich]

Are you sure he was not talking about the already bigger FM-200 that they put on the EXP119? I can’t imagine that engine choking on the FM-300.

Carl

 

[rv6ejguy]

The 119 already uses an RSA-10 sized servo which is normally fitted to 540s. Why on earth would you need something larger than that? That's overkill for a 390 already. I doubt if there is any change in MAP above 2/3rds throttle opening.

 

[Halleffect]

In one of Greg Hughes' presentations at OSH, he mentioned a new fuel servo for the EXP119. I mentioned it to Chris at Lycoming Thunderbolt and he knew nothing about it. Did anyone happen to pick up any details? When does it start shipping on new engines, etc.

This was the only mention in the presentation.

 

[Carl Froehlich]

I think the confusion is about the new AirFlow Performance FM-150C and the FM-200 used on the IO-390-EXP119. Some details:
- Don at AirFlow Performance developed the FM-150C for the IO-360 and IO-390A horizontal injected engines, making it a very nice fit for the Van’s cowl. I swapped out my Precision FM for the FM-150C (IO-360-M1B) and have been enjoyed a noticeable bump in performance.
- The FM-200 was fitting on the IO-390-EXP119 engine as it this engine could benefit from the increase capacity.
- The original snorkel used across the horizontal injected engine options showed some flow limitations when fitted to the increase capacity FM-200. This provided incentive to modify the snorkel to gain back some flow - and it also provides some gain when used with the FM-150C.

I’m hopeful Van’s will soon be able to offer the new snorkel. For those yet building, I recommend specifying the FM-150C when ordering your engine from Lycoming (unless of course you are getting the IO-390-EXP119, it will come with the FM-200).

Carl

 

[Halleffect]

I think the confusion is about the new AirFlow Performance FM-150C and the FM-200 used on the IO-390-EXP119. Some details:
- Don at AirFlow Performance developed the FM-150C for the IO-360 and IO-390A horizontal injected engines, making it a very nice fit for the Van’s cowl. I swapped out my Precision FM for the FM-150C (IO-360-M1B) and have been enjoyed a noticeable bump in performance.
- The FM-200 was fitting on the IO-390-EXP119 engine as it this engine could benefit from the increase capacity.
- The original snorkel used across the horizontal injected engine options showed some flow limitations when fitted to the increase capacity FM-200. This provided incentive to modify the snorkel to gain back some flow - and it also provides some gain when used with the FM-150C.

I’m hopeful Van’s will soon be able to offer the new snorkel. For those yet building, I recommend specifying the FM-150C when ordering your engine from Lycoming (unless of course you are getting the IO-390-EXP119, it will come with the FM-200).

Carl

Thanks, Carl. I'm getting an EXP119 so from what you're saying the only change for me will be a redesigned snorkel from what had been on the EXP119 up until now.

 

[scsmith]

One "feature" I notice on the FM-200 is that rather than having a flange on the intake side to attach air box, snorkle, ram-air system, whatever, it has a short cylindrical sleeve.

What are people doing to attach a snorkle or other to the intake side of an FM-200?

A hose clamp seems a poor choice for this, but I can't think of much else. The thought crosses my mind to make a flange that is a shrink fit onto that cylindrical sleeve.

 

[Carl Froehlich]

I don’t know but I assume Van’s addresses this with the snorkel kit for the RV-14.

Of note, the FM-200 has a nice inlet that can be bolted to the filter box and clamps to the FM-200 inlet.
https://airflowperformance.com/index.php/product/fm-200-approach-clamp-ring/

This is what I’ll be using on the new IO-540 Cold Air Sump FM-200 inlet to James filter box. The ring goes on the inside of the filter box.

Carl

 

[DanH]

What are people doing to attach a snorkle or other to the intake side of an FM-200?
A hose clamp seems a poor choice for this, but I can't think of much else.

Hose clamp locks a short section of silicone hose to the FM200, which forms a socket for the spigot on the airbox outlet. Same section of hose in both photos below.

I imagine a similar hose section would couple an FM200 to a snorkel.
.

 

[Halleffect]

Hose clamp locks a short section of silicone hose to the FM200, which forms a socket for the spigot on the airbox outlet. Same section of hose in both photos below.

I imagine a similar hose section would couple an FM200 to a snorkel.
.

The plans (OP 62-14) call for a 4" hose clamp on the snorkel where you cut four slots and connect directly to the fuel control. I'm also going to check into the clamp ring that Carl suggested.

 

[RVJoe14a]

The picture of the new snorkel in the RV-15 presentation with the bolt on flange seems to be an improvement over how the snorkel is done in OP 62. On several occasions, I've found that the snorkel has worked itself loose. It's now SOP for me to check it every time the cowl is off.

 

[rvbuilder2002]

The picture of the new snorkel in the RV-15 presentation with the bolt on flange seems to be an improvement over how the snorkel is done in OP 62. On several occasions, I've found that the snorkel has worked itself loose. It's now SOP for me to check it every time the cowl is off.

Consider having a dynamic prop. balance done if you haven’t already.
The company demonstrator now has 2+ years of flying with this system and this has never been an issue.

 

[czechsix]

The company demonstrator now has 2+ years of flying with this system and this has never been an issue.

Scott, regarding the slide shown earlier in this thread from Van's presentation at OSH, do you know if the 'New throttle body Airflow Performance & Lycoming' (with 'lower cost' and 'slight increase in manifold pressure') and image of a throttle body/snorkel with a flange is only for the RV-15? Or are these changes applicable to the 14 as well? If there's never been an issue with the hose clamp attachment method I'm curious why the change to the flange mount using four bolts, which is more complicated to fabricate?

Thanks,

 

[czechsix]

I listened to Van's Oshkosh presentation on Brantel's video and it sounds like the new throttle body and snorkel are applicable to the IO-390 in general and not only the RV-15...so presumably the new engines & FWF kits will ship with the bolted flange mount between throttle body and snorkel, and no more hose clamp. Van's says this throttle body is cheaper...the bolted flange on the front looks more expensive to manufacture than the simple round front with hose clamp attachment for the snorkel, so it's counterintuitive how this one is saving money, but it sounds good to me.

A couple other interesting takeaways from the presentation:

- a new flap motor with faster operation and integrated position sensor was mentioned, it sounded like it would be applicable to all RV models but looking at Van's website I only see it showing up for the RV-10 specifically.

- new 2-blade Hartzell composite prop is available, it weighs 37.9 lbs and they said this lighter weight 'will eventually be an advantage' but for now keep in mind W&B aspects since the 14 was designed around the metal Hartzell prop which is ~20 lbs heavier. Wonder if they will make any adjustments like new cowl/engine mount that moves the engine/prop forward an inch or two...seems like that is what would really be needed to take advantage of the lighter weight without any CG concerns. I don't see pricing for it on Van's website yet, if it's $20K then I won't be buying it anyway...

 

[Walt]

The FM150 has the bolt flange while the FM200 has the clamp, that is unless AFP is coming out with a new FM200 with a bolt flange mount?

 

[czechsix]

The FM150 has the bolt flange while the FM200 has the clamp, that is unless AFP is coming out with a new FM200 with a bolt flange mount?

Not sure, see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gO1pKlyPqvk at 48:23. The audio (as best as I can transcribe it) says “We were looking for ways to help Lycoming curtail costs. This is a new throttle body from Airflow Performance. It’s slightly larger than the throttle body that’s in existence now and as a result [has] a slight increase in manifold pressure. Speed gain is not much but it is making increased performance and this is what we’ll be supplying on Lycoming engines moving forward.”

Looking again at the slide it doesn’t specify any engine model(s)…maybe what they’re doing here is moving away completely from the default Bendix style (aka Avstar aka Silverhawk) on all fuel injected Lycomings and going exclusively with AFP throttle bodies, so this might not apply to the IO-390-EXP119 since it is already using the AFP? It does say the throttle body is ‘new’, but it’s not clear if that means ‘new’ as in not Silverhawk, or ‘new’ as in AFP came up with a new throttle body that isn't the FM150 or FM200.

 

[rvbuilder2002]

Scott, regarding the slide shown earlier in this thread from Van's presentation at OSH, do you know if the 'New throttle body Airflow Performance & Lycoming' (with 'lower cost' and 'slight increase in manifold pressure') and image of a throttle body/snorkel with a flange is only for the RV-15? Or are these changes applicable to the 14 as well? If there's never been an issue with the hose clamp attachment method I'm curious why the change to the flange mount using four bolts, which is more complicated to fabricate?

Thanks,

I wasn't at all involved with any work done towards making this change so I don't know any details regarding the reason for it beyond what the rest of you have heard from the presentation.
Maybe Greg could elaborate at some point if he is able to crawl out from under the avalanche.

 

[DonJr]

Mark,
Did you purchase the clamp ring? How did the clamp ring work out? I'm currently working on my -14A engine compartment and would like to know if you have had any success with the clamp if purchased.

 

[czechsix]

Mark,
Did you purchase the clamp ring? How did the clamp ring work out? I'm currently working on my -14A engine compartment and would like to know if you have had any success with the clamp if purchased.

I'm still working on the fuselage...don't have an engine or any of the FWF stuff yet.