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iPad use in glass cockpit?

HAL Pilot

Well Known Member
Hello all

Designing my panel (Dynon) and wondering if I need a dedicated space for a foreflight enabled IPad.

For folks that have IFR Glass cockpits, does your IPad sit in a pocket during the flight and is used for preflight mostly or are there active functions you find useful during flight?
 
Garmin

I have a garmin g3x touch system. I have a mount for an iPad that attaches to the windshield brace on my -10. I thought I would use the iPad more but I don’t. I wish I could get the weather to display on the iPad with ForeFlight but I have not been able to gain that functionality for some reason. Note that the gdl51r does not support it.

I do find that being able to edit the route on the iPad and send it to the panel is nice.
 
YMMV

I find the iPad useful in my portrait G3X twin screen panel.

It offers a backup for GPS which was used during a Garmin GPS outage, and runway wind calcs etc for landings.

I use the panel for traffic and the FF for approach plate information for practice IFR.

FF has better point to point tracking of fuel usage and has been valuable in changing wx conditions that caused inflight waypoint changes. It can quickly be changed to include the fuel used along with new paths for a destination ETA and fuel remaining. Always checked against actual fuel used and gages enroute.

I do get WX on the iPad.

It is used as a convenience, as it is not considered as reliable as Garmin equipment for IMC ops.
 
Everyone develops their own cockpit processes, and how they develop is largely influenced by how your cockpit(s) and panels are laid out - so it is really “chicken and egg”. Personally, with six airplanes, al of which have glass cockpits of one form or another, my iPad sits down beside me seat, and only comes out if I have a database question (frequency, airspace boundaries, etc) because I don’t keep all the EFIS databases up to date.

I basically depend on the native EFIOS functions for navigation, and only refer to my (always up-to-date) iPad’s Foreflight when I want to make sure I have the latest info.

YMMV

Paul
 
I hang mine from the left side of the glareshield using a Ram X-Grip mount and use it constantly, Don’t think I would want it panel mounted, but it’s all pretty subjective obviously.

Hello all

Designing my panel (Dynon) and wondering if I need a dedicated space for a foreflight enabled IPad.

For folks that have IFR Glass cockpits, does your IPad sit in a pocket during the flight and is used for preflight mostly or are there active functions you find useful during flight?
 
have G3X and panel mounted ipad. Would never leave home without it. plates are much easier on ipad and wx is much easier to view, pan, etc. Also, I have PFD map as track up and FF map as North up for better situational awareness.
 
I think the Garmin GDL 51 receiver only gets satellite XM feeds and you need either a GDL50 (ADSB only)or GDL52 (ADSB + XM) to receive ADSB TIS-B traffic. Better check Garmin on this.
 
I have an extended iPad mount on my panel. However since installing my GRT ADSB In Discovery unit I find my self more and more keeping the iPad closed up between the seats.

My dual GRT EFIS EX units display 430 navigation information combined with the ADSB traffic and weather data basically giving me everything I need to see in cruise flight. Current airport and runway data is also available on the EFIS screen.

However, if I’m going to fly an instrument approach then definitely I’ll put the iPad in its panel mount to display the ForeFlight approach charts which also display my aircraft’s current position relative to the approach. I also find that displaying ForeFlight airport taxi/runway charts at unfamiliar airports is also very useful following ground taxi instructions.

There’s so much information now available to pilots. It’s important we know how to use it appropriately.
 
In the RV-8, no room for the iPad to be mounted. Dual SkyView displays are superior at any rate. The iPad is perfect for flight planning and such, and as the third navigational backup. Other than that (and feeding music to the audio panel) the iPad stays stowed.

The same rules apply for the RV-10.

Carl
 
Yes

Hello all

Designing my panel (Dynon) and wondering if I need a dedicated space for a foreflight enabled IPad.

For folks that have IFR Glass cockpits, does your IPad sit in a pocket during the flight and is used for preflight mostly or are there active functions you find useful during flight?

I used it just this morning (pic attached). I like to have it up in my FOV for traffic and looking up information during the flight. I toggle between VFR sectional and plates and airport info.

Pivotcase case for the iPad (mini Gen 6) and mount.

V/r,dr
 

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I have an Advanced Flight EFIS and a second smaller AFS display that I use mostly as a moving map, although it can duplicate the EFIS display or components of it if I wish. An IFD440 is my main navigation source and I have an iPad Mini free in the cockpit wifi'd to the IFD440 to full-scale display it via the IFD100 app if I wish. I also keep a 10" iPad Pro suction mounted to the panel to display Foreflight, which I use for general into and a sectional overview, as well as the other functions you mentioned. It's very useful to me. It's slaved to the AFS display via wifi, or it's hooked to a Sentry for a second ADSB traffic and weather in addition to the ADSB In info that is displayed on the moving map from my EchoUAT. I acknowledge that that level of redundancy may be overkill.
 
…my iPad sits down beside me seat, and only comes out if I have a database question (frequency, airspace boundaries, etc) because I don’t keep all the EFIS databases up to date.

I basically depend on the native EFIOS functions for navigation, and only refer to my (always up-to-date) iPad’s Foreflight when I want to make sure I have the latest info.
Same; I don’t have a fancy glass panel in my -8, but with a G375, dual G5s and an Aera 660, it has most of what I need to see. I usually just pull out the iPad for an IFR approach or when I need an expanded taxi chart.
 
As a backup if I have a question…

I use my ipad very rarely in flight. My GRT EFIS with ADSB traffic and weather, charts and plates pretty much have me covered. I do use the iPad to brief and set up the cockpit for an approach. Once everything is setup, loaded and bugged, then verified, I don’t need to view the plate again. It’s a distraction that’s not needed. I still chuckle when I watch a pilot load, brief and verify everything then he constantly refers to the plate instead of monitoring and flying the plane.
 
Forgot to mention....it's pretty routine for me to plan out a flight in Foreflight on my computer, iPad, or iPhone and save it to "Flights". Once the plane is running and I'm ready to taxi, I can upload the entire flight to either my EFIS or to the IFD navigator, depending on whichever iOS device and whichever wifi network that device is using at the time
 
My system is two Garmin G3X Touch screens and a GTN650, but there should be some overlap between my experience and your question...

I've never had good luck with keeping the iPads and iPhones cool in the RVs. Granted, they were never mounted vertically, but still...

There's also the question of how you're going to use all your physical screens, whether panel mount or iPad. In my setup, I've got four half screens plus two skinny engine screens. Two of the half screens are flight instruments, one on each side, and the other two half screens are towards the center of the plane, readable from either seat. The GTN is used for flight plan editing, approach selection, and for destination waypoint information.

Two points: It's not just what displays you have in the plane, it's how you use them -- what information gets displayed where in which phases of flight. Part of that analysis is separating which button pushes do useful things directly, and which button pushes take you from screen to screen. The idea is that button pushes that take you from screen to screen are "overhead," and, ideally, should be minimized. If your trial screen allocation has you doing lots of screen swapping, that's a poor design.

The second point is that people in general do a poor job of figuring out what they're doing and how well they're doing it. The prime example comes from Apple Computer in the pre-Macintosh days when there was tremendous debate on how fast the mouse was compared to arrow keys. They ran timed tests, and everybody swore that arrow keys were faster. The stopwatch disagreed...

So here's the challenge, and it's a tough one. Figure out how many screens you'll want for each phase of flight, and if you sometimes don't have enough screens in the cockpit, which ones will time-share the displays or just get dropped. (This is a really tough task, and I have not done it myself.) Then figure out how you will distribute the useful information in the cockpit, with and without the iPad.

My choice? Put it all on the panel. (This also means that I don't have to come up with an iPad mount.) I don't want a device that might be hard to read in direct sunlight and that could overheat. And I can have two half screens on the panel vs only one (possibly) on the iPad.

It's also worth noting that pilot adapt well to all kinds of circumstances. There are homebuilts out there that the owners love but, objectively, handle poorly. There are user interfaces out there that, objectively, are terrible, but pilots adapt and love them.

And, yes, I have an iPad with foreflight and almost never use it. I do use foreflight on the iPhone but for flight planning, but not for flight plans.

Good luck!
 
My RV-6 is equipped with a G3X Touch and G5 on the left side, and an iPad on the right side of the cockpit secured in a flush panel mount. I find the iPad useful because Foreflight allows me to plan the flight, create the route, check the weather, etc and when I'm done I can "push" the flight plan to the G3X with a touch of the screen. It's easier than entering each waypoint into the G3X manually.

I also find that the right seater likes the iPad because it's intuitive and they can scroll around on the map, see the aircraft's attitude, (ground)speed and altitude, weather, traffic, etc. I like it because they're not messing with the G3X that I'm using to actively fly the airplane. So if they mess something up, no big deal. They can play to their hearts content.

The only time I've seen the iPad (a 9.7" Pro model) overheat is when it's sitting in direct sun in a closed cockpit when the plane is shut down on the ramp. The panel mount has a fan built into it, so under normal circumstances heat doesn't seem to be an issue. If I remove it from the mount on those hot summer days rather than leave it baking in the sun, it seems to do fine.

I suspect that even if I had a second GDU460 on the right side, I'd want to use an iPad (much like Doug). But having the flush panel set up for the iPad makes for a very clean looking cockpit. At least, it seems that way to me.

--Ron
 

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In my -10 I went with a remote #2 radio and transponder. I installed a GTN 650, the audio panel, and the auto pilot as low as they could be mounted in a center stack configuration. This provided room for a mini IPad that fits perfect above those items. The Garmin audio sits directly below the IPad and has a usb port so power for the IPad is right there. It works great as a third screen, that you can also remove and do all your flight planning etc.
 
When I had my RV6A I really enjoyed the panel layout with the iPad. The iPad is what I used for my approach plates as well as searching for other airport info like fuel price, weather info, etc while enroute
IMG_2591.jpg

Can someone tell me how to rotate the attachment?
 
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I have two Dynon 11" HDX Screens along with the Avidyne IFD 540 in my RV-7A, and I never carry an I-Pad. I find that the HDX has everything that I use on Foreflight with the exception of fuel prices.
 
I have a dual G3X setup as well with the GPS and AP installed low between the two. iPad mount between the panels. Although the G3X is very capable, I prefer the familiarity of having Foreflight. I also fly a mostly steam gauge Bonanza and think that being able to use the same EFB regardless of which plane I'm in adds to safety in the speed and ease I can find any information I'm looking for. I also use foreflight to record all my flights and as my logbook.

I live in Vegas and have definitely had issues with the iPad overheating when the sun it beating right on the front.

Another advantage for me is that it's considerably less expensive to keep charts up to date. Garmin's subscriptions are quite expensive and simple things like SafeTaxi add a nice level of situational awareness. Plus in Foreflight you dont have to manually download and swap around SD cards like you do in the G3X.

Overall, I think go with whatever option you're most comfortable with. Having all these fantastic tools doesn't help if you aren't intimately familiar with them. I'm certainly getting a lot better with the G3X, but having used Foreflight for a decade now everything is second nature. That plus flying in multiple airplanes makes keeping Foreflight as a constant regardless of plane the right choice for me.
 
When I have a glass cockpit, my iPad serves the following functions:

1. Plan the flight before getting in the plane.
2. Uploading the flight plan to the panel, when necessary.
3. Writing down the weather and clearance with the Apple Pencil.
4. Planning a new route if weather and terrain force me to go around something rather than over it.

All of those are easier without the iPad mounted on the panel.
 
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