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ADSB Diversity and Garmin avionics

P

Pelley

Member
Working on selecting my Garmin Avionics package. I had planned a GNX375 for backup WAAS gps (making it ifr, primary is a GTN650Xi) They said i may want to re-look at that plan as the GNX is not capable of diversity. Now my head is spinning trying to figure all this out. What i’ve come up with is keeping my GTN650xi and eliminating the GTR20 for the second com. I’ll then install a GTX345DR remote transponder with a GNC355 for the 2nd ifr navigator and com. This should work but it’s added significant cost to the package.

What’s everyone else doing with their packages? i know i can get cheaper transponders but i like everything to be Garmin so it integrates nice to the G3X (maybe i’m off base here?)
 
I ordered my IFR Garmin panel 3 years ago and decided to worry about diversity when it is actually becomes mandatory in the airspace that I fly in. Canada has a history of pushing back timelines. I wasn't willing to spend the the additional dollars. I also believed at that time that if and when diversity comes that there would be cheaper solutions. At that time there were no timelines.

Currently the timelines are:
The mandate will be implemented in a phased approach. The mandate will first come into effect in high altitude airspace, specifically Class A on August 10, 2023 and Class B airspace on May 16, 2024. Future implementation of the mandate in Class C, D and E airspace will occur no earlier than 2026.

Just my approach. It really depends on the airspace you intend to fly in.
 
What is diversity?

Jetmart said:
I ordered my IFR Garmin panel 3 years ago and decided to worry about diversity when it is actually becomes mandatory in the airspace that I fly in. Canada has a history of pushing back timelines. I wasn't willing to spend the the additional dollars. I also believed at that time that if and when diversity comes that there would be cheaper solutions. At that time there were no timelines.

Currently the timelines are:
The mandate will be implemented in a phased approach. The mandate will first come into effect in high altitude airspace, specifically Class A on August 10, 2023 and Class B airspace on May 16, 2024. Future implementation of the mandate in Class C, D and E airspace will occur no earlier than 2026.

Just my approach. It really depends on the airspace you intend to fly in.
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What is being mandated? Is this more than ADS-B compliance? Is this only in Canada?
 
This sounds like it’s going to throw a big wrench into things for people wanting to fly up to Alaska or for those wanting to come visit and explore Canada. That’ll be a lot of expense and reworking of avionics for U.S. registered aircraft to comply with Canadian airspace rules just for the occasional flight up north.
 
Mark33 said:
This sounds like it’s going to throw a big wrench into things for people wanting to fly up to Alaska or for those wanting to come visit and explore Canada. That’ll be a lot of expense and reworking of avionics for U.S. registered aircraft to comply with Canadian airspace rules just for the occasional flight up north.
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Perhaps but you really have to look at the airspace that ADSB will be required. For the vast majority of airspace mode C will be fine. Not unlike the US, the majority of airspace does not require ADSB. Two friends of mine flew from Canada to Florida and back without ADSB this past winter. All legal and no issues at all. Controllers are not necessarily concerned with ADSB. We have flown in Mode C vail of Detroit BRAVO airspace without ADSB. Controllers were happy to accommodate.
 
Pelley said:
What’s everyone else doing with their packages? i know i can get cheaper transponders but i like everything to be Garmin so it integrates nice to the G3X (maybe i’m off base here?)
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I would say you're off base. While it's nice to have the single interface for everything, there is definitely value in not having all your eggs in one basket with a single point of failure.

Anyone in Canada and needing to install a diversity solution today should be looking at the TailbeaconX. There is no need to spend more money than that, when it's not even 100% confirmed that a diversity antenna will eventually be required on all aircraft. Testing has confirmed that an aft-fuselage-mounted belly antenna on a GA single can easily communicate to the Aireon satellite network. There is still pressure to allow a performance-based approach to certification for ADS-B in Canada.
 
Jetmart said:
Perhaps but you really have to look at the airspace that ADSB will be required. For the vast majority of airspace mode C will be fine. Not unlike the US, the majority of airspace does not require ADSB. Two friends of mine flew from Canada to Florida and back without ADSB this past winter. All legal and no issues at all. Controllers are not necessarily concerned with ADSB. We have flown in Mode C vail of Detroit BRAVO airspace without ADSB. Controllers were happy to accommodate.
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According to the article, airspace in Canada is defined differently than here in the US. So, with that being said, hopefully the Canadian airspace will be easily navigated so as to stay out of the areas that’ll “require” the new equipment….basically like your two friends did when they flew from Canada to Florida.
 
https://www.avweb.com/aviation-news/canada-phasing-in-space-based-ads-b-starting-in-2023/

My guess (hope) is that Canada will provide corridors to transiting US aircraft that will not require diversity transponders. However, if you are intending to go elsewhere, you may require one.

The primary pilot benefit of equipping with a diversity transponder is enhanced ship-ship traffic awareness/avoidance, even in remote areas or mountainous terrain. That is also true with bottom-mount Mode-S/ES transponders, but diversity is better.

It makes little sense to install a non-diversity transponder on a new build, especially with the tailBeacon-X available. Many EFIS systems will drive the TBX directly, and for those that don’t, there is the huVVer-AVI Transponder controller. Full disclosure, that is a device that Rob Prior and I designed and is supplied by MakerPlane. Rob was also one of the first Canadian Beta testers for the tailBeaconX.

Having said all that, I have not seen any reports on the ability of LEO satellites to detect bottom mount antenna transmissions. By their very nature, many of the satellites are near the horizon and may pick up bottom mount pings.
 
GTX 345/345R VS. GTX 45R

Garmin currently offers the GTX 345/345R (primarily for certified aircraft) with diversity, but nothing mentioned about the 45R (for experimental aircraft) with diversity. Has anyone heard any mention of these?
 
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Mark33 said:
Garmin currently offers the GTX 345/345R (primarily for certified aircraft) with diversity, but nothing mentioned about the 45R (for experimental aircraft) with diversity. Has anyone heard any mention of these?
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The remote mount version is the 345DR. $$$$! (Ask me how I know. ;))
 
Mark33 said:
According to the article, airspace in Canada is defined differently than here in the US. So, with that being said, hopefully the Canadian airspace will be easily navigated so as to stay out of the areas that’ll “require” the new equipment….basically like your two friends did when they flew from Canada to Florida.
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The article mentions that but it doesn't go so far as to explain the differences. Biggest difference is class B. In Canada this is some airspace from 12,500' to 17.999'. It is controlled airspace only, there is a lot of uncontrolled airspace (class G) 12,500'-17,999', all having the common features of not being above airways (class E), terminal control areas (class C or D) or control area extensions (class E).

That having been said, except in the far north, there are few places that you can travel great distances in that altitude range without encountering B airspace. If you stay below 12,500', there are a lot of places to fly that aren't A, B, C, D or F. E is harder to avoid because of the low-level airways.
 
Thanks for the reply’s, i’ll look into other options to try and reduce cost a bit. I was warned the 45DR is approaching 10k alone which is crazy town.
 
vlittle said:
...I have not seen any reports on the ability of LEO satellites to detect bottom mount antenna transmissions. By their very nature, many of the satellites are near the horizon and may pick up bottom mount pings.
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I was at an industry conference in Toronto a few years back and saw some preliminary test results on the Aireon system that showed their satellites *could* receive Out transmissions from belly-mounted antennas on GA airplanes. The Iridium Next constellation, which carries Aireon's ADS-B receiver payloads, wasn't fully populated at the time so there was no information about whether or not coverage was good enough for ATC purposes. I'm sure coverage is much better now that all Iridium Next satellites are on orbit.

Dave
 
I was recently in the yyc tower and asked the controller about adsb. He said he could see which airplanes had adsb but not diversity. It made me think you could go for years without them k owing you weren't diversity compliant.
 
skidoo pilot said:
I was recently in the yyc tower and asked the controller about adsb. He said he could see which airplanes had adsb but not diversity. It made me think you could go for years without them k owing you weren't diversity compliant.
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The avionics shop that does your transponder certification would know. Your transponder wouldn't meet the regulatory standard.
 
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