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G3X vs Skyview

J

jtrollin

Well Known Member
So I am about ready to have the money for my glass cockpit and am struggling between the Skyview and the G3X.

I have my instrument rating and while I do not seek out hard IMC to fly in I plan on using my plan for IMC flights.

My concern on the G3X is lack of a dual ADHARS so worried about redundancy, but the G3X has a ton of other features I like over the current Skyview system.

I know leaving the doors open for feedback / suggestions is sometimes dangerous on here but would love to hear some thoughts of those flying with either system in IMC and if they added backups to the G3X system or not.

thanks,
 
As long as I get to spend your money,

Put them both in.

Here is a "borrowed" shot of Dan Langhout's 7.

instrument_panel.jpg
 
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G3X with a Dynon D6 Backup?

For IFR I believe in a back-up attitude, airspeed, and altimeter. i do not believe there is a difference between "hard" IFR and "light" IFR. It is or it ain't. Why not go with a g3X with a Dynon D6 as the backup?
 
Consider 2 or 3 G3Xs and a Trutrak GX autopilot with its ADI for the IFR. Then just learn and stay current on one system. Yes, you still need AS & Alt backup of some kind. The tricks the G3X is doing now is, in some ways, as or more capable than the G1000.
 
krwalsh said:
i do not believe there is a difference between "hard" IFR and "light" IFR. It is or it ain't.
Click to expand...
Absolutely correct!

Complete dual redundancy throughout your glass cockpit systems would be nice in an ideal world, but not necessarily essential. These systems have a very high reliability, especially when you compare them to the IFR stuff of yesteryear.

However you absolutely must have backup attitude/airspeed/altitude somehow, somewhere (with alternate power available for the attitude). This should be sufficient to keep you the right way up if it all turns to poop, and if you can stay the right way up and the right speed/altitude with a primary system failure, you should be able to salvage something out of the situation.

Opinion only....as always! :)
 
Providing "survival" redundancy is pretty easy with the G3X. The GX Pilot autopilot (which is designed to work perfectly with the G3X) will keep you upright and fly the airplane just fine if the G3X ADHARS were to die. If you want to manually fly in that case, then adding a D10A or an ADI Pilot (or the new Gemini from Tru Trak) will give you a THIRD "platform" in the airplane.

Many of us have flown a lot of IMC with a single vacuum pump, steam gauges, and no autopilot (single pilot) for years, but with the availability of autopilots these days (and the great package pricing you can get), there isn't a lot of reason to build an IFR airplane without one - and if you buy one with it's own attitude platform, that gives you plenty of redundancy right out of the box.

Paul
 
G3X Tricks

dfechter said:
The tricks the G3X is doing now is, in some ways, as or more capable than the G1000.
Click to expand...

I am currently trying to decide between Dynon and G3X. Could you please elaborate on the G3X "tricks"?

I am looking at a 2 10" screen Dynon system vs a 3 screen G3X with a vacuum attitude indicator as backup for both systems.

I like the bigger screen on the Dynon as I am thinking the G3X is a bit narrow.
 
Niko said:
I am currently trying to decide between Dynon and G3X. Could you please elaborate on the G3X "tricks"?

I am looking at a 2 10" screen Dynon system vs a 3 screen G3X with a vacuum attitude indicator as backup for both systems.

I like the bigger screen on the Dynon as I am thinking the G3X is a bit narrow.
Click to expand...

Probably want to add a DG and a turn coordinator too!;)
 
Lately I have been flying a bunch of different panels. I have the 3 screen G3X/XM with D6 backup and GX A/P in my 10. I also have the 430W, SL30, GTS800, ps9000 and GTX330(ES) so the ads-b is there. I have flown it IFR a little and feel really comfortable in it. Of course I have a bias opinion but after flying a lot of stuff I really do like the G3X and the capabilities. It is insane how much cheaper this system is than certified panels that have less capability. I haven't flown behind the skyview but like it more than the current corporate stuff I'm in. I agree with dfechter, It seems easier to use and by far cheaper than the G1000.
I was worried about the screen size but it is literally right in front of your face. All the wider screens have is more background. All the important stuff is there.
 
krwalsh said:
For IFR I believe in a back-up attitude, airspeed, and altimeter. i do not believe there is a difference between "hard" IFR and "light" IFR. It is or it ain't. Why not go with a g3X with a Dynon D6 as the backup?
Click to expand...

So you don't set personal minimums? IFR is IFR, right?
 
jthocker said:
Probably want to add a DG and a turn coordinator too!;)
Click to expand...

Probably not.
I am thinking that with the G3X system the separate autopilot will be a backup.

With the Dynon I will have 2 AHARS and battery backup so if I was unlucky enough that everything electrical went, I would use my attitude indicator to keep the right side up and my compass to steer to VFR area.

I have been taught to not fly IFR if I did not have a VFR out.
 
Strasnuts said:
I think it is scary to believe you can forecast your personal minimums. You really need to know how to fly IFR if you are going to go in it. Stay out of icing and have a way out. I believe the surprise is what kills people. So I agree there is one type of IFR too. You should be current and ready for anything.
Click to expand...

Just a thought...this topic has been beaten to death countless times - you can search for "Soft IFR" and read to your hearts content. Or, if you really want to discuss it again, how about hitting that "New Thread" button. It takes the same number of clicks as it does to completely change the topic of the OP's thread and take it completely of topic.
 
John
I would give AFS a serious look. They have larger screens, faster processors, higher resolution, VFR sectionals, IFR low en-route maps, approach plates
airport directory all GEO referenced. Absolutely fantastic customer. Dual
AHRS, AOA built in.
These screens are amazing. They have a new feature on the map that gives
You distance and heading when you move your stylus around on all the maps.
There are just to many things to mention.

http://www.advanced-flight-systems.com
Watch the video dated 12-16-11 on the home page

Geoff
 
All of the certified stuff is certified by the FAA, correct? The FAA is a Government agency. It takes our ridiculous Government forever to get anything done. So, it's understandable that the G3X is more capable than something that's certified. I fly on the E-3 for the Air Force. I have a 99 cent application on my iPad that is far more capable than anything we have to navigate with in our $400 million airplane. It's not certified though. :rolleyes: Don't think that just because the Government certifies it, that it makes it better.
 
I went thru the same thinking process last summer. I decided on the 3 screen G3X system with a Dynon D6 backup (has it's own internal battery) and a dual buss (two batteries). I plan on using my 10 in IFR and wanted the redundancy. It's scary to think that for 20 years I have flown my 1980 Archer IFR with only a standby electric horizon and standby vac. pump.
My decision was driven by the need to have redundant displays in both the pilot and co-pilot location. My wife, my dad, and I all fly and enjoy flying from either side.

The Dynon does not have weather, so you need a different solution. They told me last spring that they are working on an ADS-B solution. Had they had the weather I might have made a different decision.
Like Sean, I was concerned with the size with the Garmin, but after you sit behind the displays you will find they are more than big enough. If you think about it, the Dynon has a split screen display where the Garmin accomplishes this with two independent displays. So while the Dynon display appears larger, it is really only one screen split in two, it's still a little larger, but not by much.

The Garmin system is integrated with the TT GX pilot A/P, which also has it's own AHARS, So effectively, with the Garmin system you do end up with dual AHARS.

The Dynon A/P relies on the AHARS for the EFIS for which there can be two. From this perspective, they have the same redundancy.

You might want to take a look at the AFS also. It's a little more money, but much more capable than both the others

Regardless of which system you purchase, you need a backup instrument. I would not put old technology in a new plane, I would back it up with another efis such as the D6 or D10. They have an independent backup battery built in which runs well over an hour. Once you get used to flying behind and efis, I would not want to think about staying upright with just a Horizon, Airspeed and Altitude.

Bill
 
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Bill.Peyton said:
If you think about it, the Dynon has a split screen display where the Garmin accomplishes this with two independent displays. So while the Dynon display appears larger, it is really only one screen split in two, it's still a little larger, but not by much.
Click to expand...

Bill makes an excellent point about the practical comparison of a 10? landscape display against a pair of G3X 7? portrait displays that occupy about the same panel space.

It is common for pilot?s to recognize the desirability of having PFD, MFD mapping/charting, and engine gauge information on the display(s) located immediately in front of the pilot. For a 2 display G3X system this need is easily met because the PFD and MFD displays are always providing all the desired information.

A single 10? display can similarly provide the same information, but to do so it must cease to be just a widescreen PFD and instead the display space must be broken up to provide the PFD, MFD mapping/charting, and engine gauges in dedicated areas. When this happens the PFD image size is typically no longer larger than that provided by a G3X PFD display.

Comments are sometimes posted indicating that the G3X display glass size is too small (compared to a 10? display). Here again, a practical comparison of a 2 display G3X system mounted in front of the pilot instead of a typical 10? display shows that you actually have more glass area (307 cm2 for dual G3X displays versus ~286 cm2 for the 10? display under discussion).

If you are a pixel counter, the two 800 x 480 pixel G3X displays have 768K pixels while the single 1024 x 600 pixel 10? display has 615K pixels ? a 25% improvement for the G3X system.

As another important consideration in some installations, installing two G3X displays instead of a single 10? display gives you excellent availability in case power to the display is removed, or the display becomes unavailable for any other reason. If either G3X display is lost, the remaining display enters a mode where it continues to provide virtually all the MFD mapping and charting information, engine information, and PFD information that the system provided with 2 displays. Again, this information is provided immediately in front of the pilot, not cross-cockpit, so continuing a flight to the destination is seldom an inconvenience.
 
Dual AHARS won't do any good if your screen fails.

G3X all the way... the gear is derived from the G1000 and as has been mentioned, much more capable. Plenty of certified 7 figure airplanes out there using the G1000.

We went with the G3X for the IFR features, plates, data, etc...

G3X plus a Dynon D6 for the back up.... you now have your two AHARS as well as two stand alone systems (with battery back up and minimal install pain).
 
After Sun n Fun, I did a thumbnail comparison on prices between a few common glass systems.

At the time, the dual G3X combo was way expensive, however I understand that Garmin have realigned prices. The thing that sold the Skyview was the built in transponder and the good pricing on the autopilot servos.

What would be useful would be if someone could revisit the financial side, particularly on this comparison.

I am in the UK, so our prices are unrepresentative.

We are almost sold on a 10" Skyview with a G695 on the side with an SL30 to provide the ILS signal for the Skyview.

However if the same can be achieved with dual G3X's at a competitive price............
 
After using both systems

So I found a local avionics dealer that had bot systems setup as demo systems. After explaining my mission to him and playing with all the systems I went with 2 G3X screens, tt autopilot, sl40, gtn 750, ps8000 and the headless transponder.

I have been playing around with the mounting and am very happy with the screen size of the garmin stuff. I am still looking at backup options, might go with electric backup instruments next to the garmin screens. We will see.

I do recommend you actually touch and play with any system before you buy, the all feel very different, from button pushes to knob turns.
 
One thing I can add about multiple screens - it's not just about in flight failures (or IFR flying)!

I can't tell you how many times I have had one screen removed, and needed to do some build-up or troubleshooting and needed to look at the bus voltage (For instance), or other system's parameter. You need a screen to do that in an all glass cockpit.

We've got multiple screens in our GRT, Dynon, and G3X - equipped RV's. It's very nice to know that we have flexibility when it comes to either flying or maintenance.

Paul
 
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