Van's Air Force
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No Simple Dynon Skyview Timers?
- Thread starter N787KV
- Start date
Peter,
SkyView does have a clock at the top which is always displayed, and displays seconds. This meets the requirement of 91.205 IFR equipment minimums. Thus, you calculate a time by using this clock. The way guys did it 8 years ago
SkyView does not yet have any programmable count up/down timers. We've had a few requests over the years, but it hasn't yet crossed the threshold for us to spend the time doing it.
Additionally, the timers are generally only used in IFR flight, and the IFR GPS navigators have timers themselves, so this feature is redundant in many cases.
As much as it seems like the simplest of requests, we have to figure out where to put the buttons to program these timers in such a way that you can actually start and stop the timer quickly and easily even when doing something else on SkyView, where to put the timer on the screen, and what kind of alerts to fire when things expire. A timer that requires 14 button presses to set it up for a 2 minute decreasing timer isn't very useful. The 14 button press thing isn't a joke, it's how many operations are required on a G1000 to set up a 2 minute countdown timer. More if you don't want an even 2 minutes.
None of that is to say that we aren't going to do it, just an explanation of why it isn't there right now.
--Ian Jordan
Dynon Avionics
SkyView does have a clock at the top which is always displayed, and displays seconds. This meets the requirement of 91.205 IFR equipment minimums. Thus, you calculate a time by using this clock. The way guys did it 8 years ago
SkyView does not yet have any programmable count up/down timers. We've had a few requests over the years, but it hasn't yet crossed the threshold for us to spend the time doing it.
Additionally, the timers are generally only used in IFR flight, and the IFR GPS navigators have timers themselves, so this feature is redundant in many cases.
As much as it seems like the simplest of requests, we have to figure out where to put the buttons to program these timers in such a way that you can actually start and stop the timer quickly and easily even when doing something else on SkyView, where to put the timer on the screen, and what kind of alerts to fire when things expire. A timer that requires 14 button presses to set it up for a 2 minute decreasing timer isn't very useful. The 14 button press thing isn't a joke, it's how many operations are required on a G1000 to set up a 2 minute countdown timer. More if you don't want an even 2 minutes.
None of that is to say that we aren't going to do it, just an explanation of why it isn't there right now.
--Ian Jordan
Dynon Avionics
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Ian
Thanks for your response, but I think that you are missing something. I have dual Skyviews, dual ADHARS, pitch and roll AP servos, heated pitot tube, ARINC 429, back up battery and I just replaced my GNX 327 (that had a timer built in) with your transponder and ADSB Box. I have all this great equipment and I never thought to check for an egg time. Yes, the clock does meet 91.205 IFR equipment MINIMUMS. That is the minimum. I don't know how you fly an approach, but for the last 30 years, I have hacked a timer. The last thing that I want to do while flying close to the ground, IMC, is to do mental gymnastics adding time to a clock to determine my procedure turn inbound or my miss approach time etc.
You point out that timers are generally only used in IFR flight, that they are included in most IFR GPS's and that it would be redundant. This is where it's better to have redundancy then not have it at all. Especially in the IFR environment. You want ease of use and convenience. I got the Skyview to use IFR!
The G1000's timer sounds poorly thought out and not user friendly. I have not used one myself. My brother has a Advanced 3500 and from a drop down menu he does a click of a button, a turn of a knob to set a time. One more click and it starts counting down to an alarm. To hack a time is even easier.
A simple timer/alarm has many uses. Such as:
Just about any IFR procedure
An alarm to remind you to switch tanks for fuel balance, set the alarm
ATC request a level off in a certain amount of time, hack the time
ATC give you an expect further (something) in X amount of time, hack the time
Doing a time/distance calc, hack the time
The list goes on
You may not chose to include a timer/alarm in the Skyview system, I wish you would of course, but after seeing all the choices you have made available and the degree of execution, to say it's that hard to put in an egg time is hard for me to believe.
Thanks for listening
Thanks for your response, but I think that you are missing something. I have dual Skyviews, dual ADHARS, pitch and roll AP servos, heated pitot tube, ARINC 429, back up battery and I just replaced my GNX 327 (that had a timer built in) with your transponder and ADSB Box. I have all this great equipment and I never thought to check for an egg time. Yes, the clock does meet 91.205 IFR equipment MINIMUMS. That is the minimum. I don't know how you fly an approach, but for the last 30 years, I have hacked a timer. The last thing that I want to do while flying close to the ground, IMC, is to do mental gymnastics adding time to a clock to determine my procedure turn inbound or my miss approach time etc.
You point out that timers are generally only used in IFR flight, that they are included in most IFR GPS's and that it would be redundant. This is where it's better to have redundancy then not have it at all. Especially in the IFR environment. You want ease of use and convenience. I got the Skyview to use IFR!
The G1000's timer sounds poorly thought out and not user friendly. I have not used one myself. My brother has a Advanced 3500 and from a drop down menu he does a click of a button, a turn of a knob to set a time. One more click and it starts counting down to an alarm. To hack a time is even easier.
A simple timer/alarm has many uses. Such as:
Just about any IFR procedure
An alarm to remind you to switch tanks for fuel balance, set the alarm
ATC request a level off in a certain amount of time, hack the time
ATC give you an expect further (something) in X amount of time, hack the time
Doing a time/distance calc, hack the time
The list goes on
You may not chose to include a timer/alarm in the Skyview system, I wish you would of course, but after seeing all the choices you have made available and the degree of execution, to say it's that hard to put in an egg time is hard for me to believe.
Thanks for listening
Dynon timers
I have the exact same equipment in my plane and I agree with you entirely. Flying IFR keeps you busy and we look for every means of minimizing the workload. Remembering or writing down times is not in line with a philosophy of minimizing the workload. Providing a clock is simply compliance with 91.205, I'd like my EFIS to provide more than the minimum equipment level to comply with the regulations. I'm surprised that this feature didn't make the cut in release 6.0 which targets IFR flight.
I have the exact same equipment in my plane and I agree with you entirely. Flying IFR keeps you busy and we look for every means of minimizing the workload. Remembering or writing down times is not in line with a philosophy of minimizing the workload. Providing a clock is simply compliance with 91.205, I'd like my EFIS to provide more than the minimum equipment level to comply with the regulations. I'm surprised that this feature didn't make the cut in release 6.0 which targets IFR flight.
ppilotmike
Well Known Member
Fly time for fuel...
I agree that an egg timer type of feature is very useful and would seemingly be an easy add to the Skyview system. Currently, I plan to have a full Skyview system. It would be a real shame for me to have to stick a silly timer clock on the dash too. Pretty please, with sugar (and money) on top, Dynon.....
I agree that an egg timer type of feature is very useful and would seemingly be an easy add to the Skyview system. Currently, I plan to have a full Skyview system. It would be a real shame for me to have to stick a silly timer clock on the dash too.
Pretty please, with sugar (and money) on top, Dynon.....
ppilotmike
Well Known Member
Is this your new "cash back" program?
Thanks for the info about Garmin. Hopefully Dynon will add the functionality to their package (which is top notch, by the way).Is this your new "cash back" program?
Ha! Incidentally, I had deleted my own post because I couldn't find a way to say that it only takes 1 or 2 button pushes (and optionally a knob twist) to use the Garmin 900X without sounding like a jerk....
I'm certain Dynon will do an excellent job with their timers when they add them (and then we can do a button push and knob twist "video comparo")!
Cheers,
Stein
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Might not be that much of a shame ;^)
RE: egg timers..... I use my old school manual wind up clock (upper left corner) on every single flight. I push the hack button as I turn on the runway (and turn the arrow on my watch bezel to the minute hand). That gives me (2) timers to use for whatever (fuel, flight time, etc). I can press the hack button in flight to reset to zero and restart (timed approach, etc). Big metal button that doesn't require reading a menu in turbulence......one inch from the artificial horizon.
I would use the same setup if I redesigned my panel from scratch. I LOVE seeing that big ol, easy to read stopwatch a goin'.
http://www.vansairforce.net/N617ARVirtualTour/panel_lit_up.jpg
RE: egg timers..... I use my old school manual wind up clock (upper left corner) on every single flight. I push the hack button as I turn on the runway (and turn the arrow on my watch bezel to the minute hand). That gives me (2) timers to use for whatever (fuel, flight time, etc). I can press the hack button in flight to reset to zero and restart (timed approach, etc). Big metal button that doesn't require reading a menu in turbulence......one inch from the artificial horizon.
I would use the same setup if I redesigned my panel from scratch. I LOVE seeing that big ol, easy to read stopwatch a goin'.
http://www.vansairforce.net/N617ARVirtualTour/panel_lit_up.jpg
I agree that an egg timer type of feature is very useful and would seemingly be an easy add to the Skyview system. Currently, I plan to have a full Skyview system. It would be a real shame for me to have to stick a silly timer clock on the dash too.
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ppilotmike
Well Known Member
Dang Doug, not much about your panel looks "old school" to me! You gonna be at OSH this year? [ed. No OSH - high school 30yr reunion and daughter starting college! dr]
You gonna be at OSH this year? [ed. No OSH - high school 30yr reunion and daughter starting college! dr]
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RE: egg timers..... [/URL]
Doug, how does your AOA fit around when your canopy is lowered?? Can you post a picture?
Ditto
My two cents...
I have to say I have been amazed that although I'm VFR, my timers (one Garmin and one AFS) are in constant use and significantly reduce my mental workload. In my case, I use one to switch tanks and one for navigation. Yes, I could rely solely GPS but I've found that on the rare occasion the the GPS has gone down (yup, loose wire) I was unpleasantly surprised by how rusty my paper chart based navigation had become.
-Todd
My two cents...
I have to say I have been amazed that although I'm VFR, my timers (one Garmin and one AFS) are in constant use and significantly reduce my mental workload. In my case, I use one to switch tanks and one for navigation. Yes, I could rely solely GPS but I've found that on the rare occasion the the GPS has gone down (yup, loose wire) I was unpleasantly surprised by how rusty my paper chart based navigation had become.
-Todd
Egg Timer Wish List
Ian, (Dynon)
Thanks for putting the timer in the Queue. I know, like the rest of your programs, it will be executed nicely.
Since one doesn't exist at this time, I would like to take the opportunity to give you my Egg Timer Wish List.
1. I would like to be able to access and hack the count up timer quickly and easily with maybe two pushes of the same button and have it displayed to the left of the clock display. I would also like to be able to stop, start, reset and start again easily.
2. With maybe another push or two and a twist, I could set a countdown timer to an alarm or voice alert. This would be a separate timer/alarm displayed on the main screen again next to the clock display if the count up time is not in use. If the count up timer is in use, then it would be displayed on a secondary timer page.
3. The last thing is what I would call a "Fuel Tank Timer". The purpose is to remind me to switch fuel tanks for trim purposes. This timer would have a preset time that is user settable. When started, it would count down to an alarm or voice alert then automatically reset to the preset time to await further activation. This timer would only be viewable on a secondary timer page so as not to be confused with the above countdown timer.
This is my Egg Timer Wish List. What do you all think? We have an opportunity here to provide Dynon our input, so let's do it.
I would like to thank Dynon for listening and for the SkyView system. They have done a great job.
Ian, (Dynon)
Thanks for putting the timer in the Queue. I know, like the rest of your programs, it will be executed nicely.
Since one doesn't exist at this time, I would like to take the opportunity to give you my Egg Timer Wish List.
1. I would like to be able to access and hack the count up timer quickly and easily with maybe two pushes of the same button and have it displayed to the left of the clock display. I would also like to be able to stop, start, reset and start again easily.
2. With maybe another push or two and a twist, I could set a countdown timer to an alarm or voice alert. This would be a separate timer/alarm displayed on the main screen again next to the clock display if the count up time is not in use. If the count up timer is in use, then it would be displayed on a secondary timer page.
3. The last thing is what I would call a "Fuel Tank Timer". The purpose is to remind me to switch fuel tanks for trim purposes. This timer would have a preset time that is user settable. When started, it would count down to an alarm or voice alert then automatically reset to the preset time to await further activation. This timer would only be viewable on a secondary timer page so as not to be confused with the above countdown timer.
This is my Egg Timer Wish List. What do you all think? We have an opportunity here to provide Dynon our input, so let's do it.
I would like to thank Dynon for listening and for the SkyView system. They have done a great job.
It rests about 1/16th of an inch under the curved aluminum when the canopy is closed. I couldn't find a pic with the canopy closed, but did find this one which shows just how IN YOUR FACE this amazing thing is during the downwind/base/final turns. I'll keep looking for a closed pic.
ps: We thought about making a notch in the 'flashing' so it would be half above and half below the glareshield, but decided not to.
This is a great thread, and I see points I agree with on both sides of the argument. I've got my own theories on the actual usefulness of a clock timer while flying IFR, but those aren't necessarily relevant to this discussion.
One thing that did give me a chuckle, however, is this insistence on needing a countdown timer to remind you to switch fuel tanks. We're carrying over a tired old analog process into a digital domain. Why do we switch fuel tanks at all? To avoid large fuel imbalances, of course. Well, here we have a magnificent computer that's monitoring every subtle nuance of the engine performance and aircraft systems -- including fuel load -- and you guys want a TIMER to remind you to switch tanks?
Here's a better idea: let's ask Dynon to code in a configurable fuel alarm that reminds the pilot to switch to the fullest tank when a specified L/R fuel load imbalance (in gallons) is detected.
Then we can all leave the old thirty-minute egg-timer concept where it belongs -- in the past.
One thing that did give me a chuckle, however, is this insistence on needing a countdown timer to remind you to switch fuel tanks. We're carrying over a tired old analog process into a digital domain. Why do we switch fuel tanks at all? To avoid large fuel imbalances, of course. Well, here we have a magnificent computer that's monitoring every subtle nuance of the engine performance and aircraft systems -- including fuel load -- and you guys want a TIMER to remind you to switch tanks?
Here's a better idea: let's ask Dynon to code in a configurable fuel alarm that reminds the pilot to switch to the fullest tank when a specified L/R fuel load imbalance (in gallons) is detected.
Then we can all leave the old thirty-minute egg-timer concept where it belongs -- in the past.
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For over 20 years I've had my fuel flow instrument (totalizer) tell me to switch tanks every 5 gallons.
I start out on the left tank with either 35 or 45 galloons, depending on whether or not I have filled the aux tanks. Rounding the numbers down gives me easy numbers to work with and also give me a little "pad".
If the reading is between 35 and 30, I know I should be on the left tank. If it's between 30 and 25, I know I should be on the right tank.
I start out on the left tank with either 35 or 45 galloons, depending on whether or not I have filled the aux tanks. Rounding the numbers down gives me easy numbers to work with and also give me a little "pad".
If the reading is between 35 and 30, I know I should be on the left tank. If it's between 30 and 25, I know I should be on the right tank.
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