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EFII Install

C

crabandy

Well Known Member
My purpose for this post is to help other VAF members in their EI decision and installations as so many others have helped me. I got a new Iphone about the same time as the EFII which made it easy to post lots of pictures. I did get a free hat, but no other free stuff or compensation.

I received my EFII single ignition in the mail a couple days ago, I purchased it to help replace my single "dual" bendix mag. I researched VAF and spoke to 3 different electronic ignition suppliers before I chose EFII. I came up with the same conclusions as "Walkman" 's excellent post on the subject. The best part of EFII over competitors was the crank sensor, the only downside was the prefabbed wire harnesses required large passthroughs. I thought I would add photos of my install to help other people make their decision.

The main reason I chose EFII was the Sensor.
18C377A3-69F7-417A-8627-CF31F806F830-16300-0000079C9B2291D2_zps4fdf8e91.jpg

My ring gear was sent off about 4 weeks prior to get the magnets installed.
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The sensors mounts on the existing engine case bolts.
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The alternator bracket bolt must be installed first, the mount is machined around it.
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I mounted the coil to the firewall with a stiffener on the back. The coil comes with a very nice mount/mag block off plate but I only have one mag hole on my a accessory case and it will be used by my converted single mag.
DA697F48-DA39-427E-8DD4-7BEB279FE5FA-16300-000007CD767708F7_zps29074d4d.jpg

2F79135B-4B92-4FE1-976F-E8849D6AD70A-16300-000007CD9271C8C1_zps07006250.jpg

I mounted the ECU upside down from angles on the left and middle forward ribs.
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More to come as I route the wiring. I may try to consolidate the EFII wiring harness with the engine sensor wiring, we will see.
 
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Thanks for the pretty hoses in the pics Tom!
The plastic bushings I bought to go through the baffle were too small, hopefully more pics tonight.
 
Finally back at it, the round 1 inch bushings I bought to route the sensor wire through the baffling were 1/32 too small. As I was contemplating filing the bushing and the giant gob of silicone it was going to take to fill the bushing around the wire I spied my ignition seals. It took most of the afternoon (I'm slow) to fab some lemon shaped doublers to cover the round holes for the bushings and house the ignition baffle seals. My single hole seal is in the mail, the 2 hole in the pic let me get the right geometry for the adel clamps.
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I used a shim of .063 to position the sensor .03-.05 from the flywheel.
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Routing on top of engine and doubler for the wire seal.
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It will probably be a month or so before I finish hooking it up, I would like to run the engine sensor harness through the firewall together.
 
You'll wish that you would have installed nutplates when it come time to remove this :eek:

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Brian, my engine had the single dual bendix mag. No EI companies make a Hall effect sensor for my accessory case so I have to use a sensor on the ring gear. Also I'm using my 1 and only mount in the accessory case for a converted single bendix mag. Look at the install manuals from the various manufactures for more details, but this sensor is compact and bolts on via existing case bolts (no drilling/filing/tapping).

Walt, I thought about that as I was putting on the nylocks. It just made it on my to do list.
 
Yes ... platenuts for sure

Walt said:
You'll wish that you would have installed nutplates when it come time to remove this
Click to expand...

Walt is right. After much debate and related groaning, I finally decided to install platenuts on the angle cross-members (between subpanel and f'wall) that support my LSEI brainbox and EIS 4000. I have only 40 hrs on my bird and I'm already glad I did, having briefly removed the EIS thru the top skin access panels twice already.
 
Nutplates it is, I had assumed the ECU box was more of "how many times have you replaced the ECU in your car." Does the ECU get removedfor software upgrades?
Took me 2 hours and moved the location.
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The stock harness ground was too short so I used butt splices and routed the grounds inside the conduit along with the manifold pressure hose.
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The kit comes with this...
FC6F6F2D-DAB1-49C0-824D-88B7CFBA34D6-687-0000003761D39AC2_zps46b42fec.jpg

I used this instead with a .063 doubler, it is steel 1 3/4 inch inside diameter the connectors fit through and less than $2 at HD.
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The black line on the right is for manifold pressure and joins the manifold block.
The other wires follow the engine mount. I still need to fire sleeve/seal between the steel fitting and the conduit.
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The right side of the engine where the coil and flywheel pickup snap in.
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The connectors on the ECU, I still have to mount the manifold pressure sensor. There is +\- for the ECU and a+ for each coil output. I'm just using a single EFII but the wiring harness and ECU is set up to run dual ignition except for the extra coil and wires.
26CBBAE0-BEA0-4EF8-91C7-6AFFED7B2960-687-000000377CA5A09D_zps78133088.jpg

I'm running the power to the ECU through a switch, you could alternatively switch the power on the coil to enable/disable the EFII. A double pole switch could also be used to disable both ECU and Coil power simultaneously.
 
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I got the manifold pressure sensor installed today. Directions called for safety wiring the hoses, but I thought I bought some fuel injection clamps I'm going to use instead.
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I ordered a spark plug wire crimper from Summit as suggested in the plans and played with several wiring runs for the plug wires.
 
Thanks! I literally cannot wait, the G3x and Catto are shipping soon and after those get put in.....more stuff I'm not thinking of.
 
Spent an hour removing my EFII, have to send the ECU/Crank sensor/wiring back to Robert to make it a dual system. The longer I waited on an engine shop to convert a single bendix mag to fit my dual Bendix mag accessory case the more I thought about dual EFII. Having both plugs firing at the same time/higher intensity with no moving parts versus a "custom" mag with fixed timing appealed more and more. I had already chosen the aeroelectric's z13-8 architecture with the SD8 which will easily power both ignitions and an efis in an outage situation until fuel exhaustion or the engine quits. $500 ish more for the second EFII vs mag but I think it's the right choice. With the price of aviation plugs and fuel I should recoup the difference in my fly off time.
 
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From upgrading my ignition to handling special request for my wiring and answering my questions via email within hours numerous times, Robert's customer service is top tier!
The top sensor is 88 degrees before top dead center. The lower one is 71 degrees before TDC, the coils and Ecu's are matched to their associated sensors. I did use an extra washer under the sensor mount on each bolt to get the required .30-.50 clearance from the sensor to the inside of the ring gear.
CC0049A4-8C7C-425D-8F3A-FBCDCB67C54E-13132-000006CE0A92730C_zpsf8dd49db.jpg

Magneto block off plate/coil mount with the dowel to plug the hole in the accessory case for the single dual Bendix mag.
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On the engine minus the coil.
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The dual manifold pressure sensors, I ran the vacuum tubing with the rest of the wiring and mounted the sensors close to the ECUs.
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Routing for top plug wires, I'm waiting to install the auto plugs and adapters until I'm ready to check the spinner alignment and closer to my first engine start.
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I'm lucky there is a aircraft hardware (B & B) on the way to work, picked up some AN3-16A's to mount the 2 ECUs and some silicone Adels for the plug wires.
The ECUs are marked 88 and 71 to match up to the correct flywheel sensor and coil. On the complete dual system (2 ECUs/flywheel sensors) there is a pair of power/Gnd wires per ECU to wire to switches/fuses. There is also a ground wire on the engine side for the coils (1st pic)
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ECUs mounted and wires!
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I think I'm going to install a vibration absorber (mouse pad idea from smokeyray) where the ECUs are mounted, it can't hurt. I still need to get some small clamps for the vacuum connections.
The Taylor 8mm wires (almost local in Grandview, Mo) with the end stripped to 1/2 inch as suggested.
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It helps to slightly bend the tabs in on the terminal so it fits in the jaws of the crimper.
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I clocked the terminal to the wire, bent the center conductor so that it lies against the outer sheath of the wire and on the bottom of the terminal. The Taylor crimper does a great job of crimping, I was impressed for $12.
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I routed the right side wires on the baffling to the center of the engine mount.
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Top plugs on both sides used the existing bolt in the baffling for an adel.
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The left top ones exit the baffling to an adel on the oil cooler then to the coil on the mag block off plate. I had already drilled the hole for a mag blast tube so I just ran it through an adel on the coil to the fuel pump.
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Hard to see anything in this pick but the blue wires on the left come from the top right plugs and along the back of the baffling through the adel on the engine mount then join the coil power wires to the coil on the mag block off plate. The blue wires on the right come from the left lower plugs to an adel on the oil cooler to the adel on the engine mount to the coil on the firewall.
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Looking good!!

Looking good Andy, I hope to have my 7 with full EFII in the air before long as well. I can't wait for your full report after she's flying.
 
Hi Andy, I notice with great interest that you have installed two ECUs, presumably one for each set of spark plugs, and each has its own pickup sensor as labeled in your pictures.

On the EFII website (http://www.flyefii.com/) they only show a single ECU option, with the single ECU controlling both sets of plugs.

How much was the dual ECU package? Is there any online information about it?

Thanks,

-Dj
 
Thanks Robert! I see it now, listed as a sub-option under the "Dual Magneto Replacement Ignition". I was thinking it would be a separate major heading rather than a sub-heading. Thanks for pointing it out to me.

-Dj
 
Thanks Mark, good luck on yours too!

Dj, I'm really happy with the system so far. By the time you sell your mags/ don't have to buy aviation plugs and wires the EI option isn't that much more.
 
Probably not necessary and not in the install instructions but I put some high density foam on the ECU's to hopefully cut down on vibration, can't hurt.
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A057E49F-F144-49DD-8657-ADF449475B04-935-0000006832F9CEB0_zps0cb9553c.jpg
 
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I saw a full disclosure post today and thought I would add it here.

My purpose for this thread is to help others as so many before on this forum have helped me. While searching VAF I didn't find any installation pics of the EFII system so when I received my EFII ignition I thought I would post this thread to document my experiences to help the next guy with his/her EI decision and installation. I received no special pricing/deals etc (I did get a free hat!)
 
Andy, where did you get the bracket that ties the alternator mount to the starter housing? I would like to have one of those.

I too have a dual EFII setup from Robert on my new as yet to be flown IO-360. I must say that I was blown away with the quality of all the parts that come with the kit, first class.

Don
 
I now have 10 hours on my plane and dual EFII, I did a short initial LOP test at 60% power today. I need to download my data, but from memory my EGT spread at full rich was within 30 ish degrees. The spread seemed pretty close at peak but after 2 minutes at 50 LOP #3/4 were 1340 and #1/2 were at peak of 1400.
Very early but hoping my fuel distribution with the carb is better than that. The engine never missed a best and ran turbine smooth the entire time. I leaned very slowly and approached peak from the lean side. As I was leaning aft of peak I kept waiting for a stumble/cough but only felt the airplane slow down and saw CHT's drop 60 degrees.
More once I verify my cylinders are properly broken-in.
 
Do you have any before and after performance numbers? What are your overall impressions now that you've finished the conversion?
 
EFII

Hey Andy,
I'm glad to see you're getting some real world numbers for us to see. I'm still picking at mine slowly but surely. I ran my engine a few weeks ago, and she is turbine smooth!! It starts as easy as a car and with no MAG's to check, it really keeps things simple. When do you think you'll make the plunge for the fuel injection portion of the system? I don't think you'll ever regret it.
 
Probably a while, I'm saving up to buy a radio stack next fall. Year after that paint. Year after that ??? Perhaps its easier to fly this one as is and start building another!
 
Interesting read Andy. Nice work.

If you go fuel injection, is it pulse timed with the EFII system or mechanical like with magnetos?
 
EFII

David-aviator said:
Interesting read Andy. Nice work.

If you go fuel injection, is it pulse timed with the EFII system or mechanical like with magnetos?
Click to expand...

David,
It has magnetts that are imbedded in the flywheel and a Hall effect sensor that bolts to the front of the case which is what determines the timing and talks to the ECU. The actual fuel injectors are basic Bosh style electronic solenoid type that are mounted directly in the intake tubes with a fuel rail adjoining the injectors. The electric fuel pump flows about 30-35 GPH and all of the unused fuel flows back in to the tank from which the fuel was taken. This is also a great system for those of us that want to burn auto fuel....no vapor lock!!
 
So I know this system removes the mixture control. How are you guys running LOP? Are you using the panel controls and mapping it in flight? I'd like to know if it's possible to run the system through an EFIS to avoid cluttering the panel anymore than you have to. Pictures of the control head would be very helpful! Thanks!
 
majuro15 said:
So I know this system removes the mixture control. How are you guys running LOP? Are you using the panel controls and mapping it in flight? I'd like to know if it's possible to run the system through an EFIS to avoid cluttering the panel anymore than you have to. Pictures of the control head would be very helpful! Thanks!
Click to expand...

Tim,
The system really doesn't "remove" the mixture control. The system is basically designed to keep the ideal air/fuel ratio in all operating conditions, which the ECU takes care of....exactly like all modern day vehicles. If I want to do something different than the ECU wants to do, all I have to do is turn a small reostat knob which gives me the exact same control over my mixture as a standard mixture knob would allow me to have. I also have an ECU controll head mounted in my panel that allows me to have direct controll of the ECU if I want to change any other parameters of the ECU. So, basically, the only additional items that are installed in my panel is the ECU controller/programer head (standard 3"), an AFR gauge (2.5"), and a reostat knob, but there's really nothing that can be controlled directly through the EFIS.
 
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Scott Hersha said:
Does the install manual reference correct air/fuel ratio for various flight phases?
Click to expand...

Yes it does. From what I remember, it's around 13.5:1 or 14:1. Maybe Robert or Ross can comment on this. That is the ideal ratio regardless of the flight phase and the ECU manages that ratio regardless of the flight phase. I'm sure one of the other engine experts on the forum can also comment on air/fuel ratios.
 
David-aviator said:
Interesting read Andy. Nice work.

If you go fuel injection, is it pulse timed with the EFII system or mechanical like with magnetos?
Click to expand...

David,

The system is a lot like what you had before but with the SDS ECU running it. Same type of ignition control in 250 RPM increments and pulsed injectors on a fuel rail with a fuel pressure regulator at the end, and return lines going back to each tank.

The fuel system on these systems has a real advantage for avoiding vapor lock since quite a bit of fuel is continually being returned back to the tank. This keeps a flow of cool fuel flowing through the fuel rails at all times. On a hot start situation, as soon as you turn on the fuel pump a supply of fresh fuel flows through the fuel rails and the hot fuel that was in them is returned to the tank it came from. (Too bad the mechanical FI systems out there don't do more of this.)

There is a way to get the Air Fuel Ratio displayed on a Dynon Skyview, but I do not believe the system can be controlled from inside an EFIS, at least not yet..

It is also possible to run the system without the controller / programmer mounted in the panel, but I feel that it should be there. It has a display of it's own with lots of good information on it.

Randall
 
Mark33 said:
Yes it does. From what I remember, it's around 13.5:1 or 14:1. Maybe Robert or Ross can comment on this. That is the ideal ratio regardless of the flight phase and the ECU manages that ratio regardless of the flight phase. I'm sure one of the other engine experts on the forum can also comment on air/fuel ratios.
Click to expand...

I am no engine expert but do have an understanding of how it all works.

The A/F ratio is more like 12:5 for WOT take off and can be as lean as 15:1 for high altitude cruise. With the Subaru ECU (which is a very good albet complex computer) it is controlled by the device. I do believe A/F ratio with EFII it is controlled by the pilot.

Needless to say, the pilot must have an understanding of A/F ratio, a 15:1 ratio for take off would destroy the engine.

I had on loan an A/F measuring gage from Jan Eggenfellner at one point in an attempt to set and verify the ratio with fuel pressure. Fuel pressure was the one input variable we could control, all other factors were controlled by the ECU. It was not a very satisfactory situation but better than nothing.

The pilot does need to have more control of the ECU than granted with auto units. I do believe you will have it with this system.
 
Randy said:
David,

The system is a lot like what you had before but with the SDS ECU running it. Same type of ignition control in 250 RPM increments and pulsed injectors on a fuel rail with a fuel pressure regulator at the end, and return lines going back to each tank.

The fuel system on these systems has a real advantage for avoiding vapor lock since quite a bit of fuel is continually being returned back to the tank. This keeps a flow of cool fuel flowing through the fuel rails at all times. On a hot start situation, as soon as you turn on the fuel pump a supply of fresh fuel flows through the fuel rails and the hot fuel that was in them is returned to the tank it came from. (Too bad the mechanical FI systems out there don't do more of this.)

There is a way to get the Air Fuel Ratio displayed on a Dynon Skyview, but I do not believe the system can be controlled from inside an EFIS, at least not yet..

It is also possible to run the system without the controller / programmer mounted in the panel, but I feel that it should be there. It has a display of it's own with lots of good information on it.

Randall
Click to expand...

With regard to vapor lock and hot start, I do have it mostly defeated with the AFP purge valve. :)
 
I'm suddenly getting ideas of connecting the mixture lever in my center console throttle quadrant to the mixture control rheostat. Pop off the knob, connect it to the lever with a swivel arm bracket, done! :D Embed the rheostat down inside the center console tunnel, one less knob on the panel.

It's so crazy it just might work...
 
Mark33 said:
Yes it does. From what I remember, it's around 13.5:1 or 14:1. Maybe Robert or Ross can comment on this. That is the ideal ratio regardless of the flight phase and the ECU manages that ratio regardless of the flight phase. I'm sure one of the other engine experts on the forum can also comment on air/fuel ratios.
Click to expand...

Standard detonation test conditions; high CHT, oil temp, and intake air temp.

Angle valve cylinder, conservative 20 BTDC timing, benign cruise condition, good fuel. It starts into light detonation at about 13.5 AFR and gets worse as the mixture is leaned to 14. Note relationship to peak EGT, a measure more familiar to most pilots these days.

2dkjxab.jpg


Bad day here...minimum quality 100LL fuel, full throttle, full hot. Continued operation at 12.75 through 13.25 (where the test was terminated) would probably destroy the engine

4v3fpv.jpg
 
EFII and Air Fuel Ratio

The paragraph below is copied straight out of the EFII install manual.

....While on the ground, test your aircraft at all different power levels. Your air/fuel ratio should remain in the low 13s. A higher air/fuel number is a leaner mixture. A lower air/fuel number is a richer mixture. Never let your air/fuel ratio get into the 14s at high power levels. This could lead to a dangerous lean condition that could damage your engine. At the higher power levels, an air/fuel ratio around 13 is good....

It does seem to correlate with the graph from DanH above

Additional info: according to Rob with AFS his system is capable of displaying Air Fuel Ratio because the EFII system uses a 5v input. Therfore, one could use the carb heat input on the AFS to display AFR (air fuel ratio).
 
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