VansAirForceForums  
Home > VansAirForceForums

- POSTING RULES
- Donate yearly (please).
- Advertise in here!

- Today's Posts | Insert Pics



Go Back   VAF Forums > Model Specific > RV-3
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 09-18-2012, 01:11 PM
Jumbo's Avatar
Jumbo Jumbo is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Muenster, Germany, Europe.
Posts: 137
Default RV-3 vs. Harmon Rocket I

Hi,

I am trying to find out what the differences are - both structural and aerodynamic - between the RV-3 and the Harmon Rocket I. I am aware of the turtle deck and more HP however I don't have any knowledge really re the wings in detail and re any resulting change in flying behavior.

If you guys, more knowledgeable than me, would provide some insight I'd be glad.

Thanks, Heinz
__________________
Homebased Muenster-Telgte, Germany, Europe, donated 09/2013 - next donation due 09/2014
a.) Eggenfellner H-6 powered 4-seat Robin, PH-ERD 325+hrs since SEP 2008 .... counting
b.) bought flying with gratitude: Vans RV-4 with O-320, PH-EIL (former N921MS) .... now sold to live on in Southern France (nice!!)
c.) bought flying at 51 TT: Vans RV-3A, PH-URZ .... getting used to it (and having fun )
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 09-18-2012, 02:30 PM
pierre smith's Avatar
pierre smith pierre smith is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Louisville, Ga
Posts: 7,394
Default

Heinz, the Harmon Rocket is based on an RV-4, who's wings are a lot bigger in both chord and span. The fuselage is also a lot longer on a -4.

The Harmon's wings are shortened by one bay but uses all the ribs, just spaced closer together. The tailfeathers are also -4, bigger than the -3 and the guys usually use thicker skins back there.

Best,
__________________
Pierre Smith
RV-10, 510 TT
RV6A (Sojourner) 180 HP, Catto 3 Bl (502Hrs), gone...and already missed
Air Tractor AT 502B PT 6-15
Air Tractor 402 PT-6-20
EAA Flight Advisor/CFI/Tech Counselor
Louisville, Ga

It's never skill or craftsmanship that completes airplanes, it's the will to do so,
Patrick Kenny, EAA 275132


Dues gladly paid!
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 09-18-2012, 02:46 PM
Sid Lambert Sid Lambert is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: North Atlanta
Posts: 1,001
Default

Scratch what Pierre said. He wasn't paying attention.

The Harmon Rocket 1 was based on the RV-3. Like you I do not know other than the turtle deck and an angle value IO-360 engine what the difference is.

The HRII had lots of changes but again, no so sure about the HRI.

John Harmon is still around and may answer your questions.
__________________
Sid Lambert

RV-7 Sold
RV-4 - Flying - O-320 Fixed Pitch - Red over Yellow


Last edited by Sid Lambert : 09-19-2012 at 12:23 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 09-18-2012, 02:52 PM
pierre smith's Avatar
pierre smith pierre smith is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Louisville, Ga
Posts: 7,394
Default

Oops.


You guys see what happens when you're 67?

I forgot about the Harmon I,

Best,
__________________
Pierre Smith
RV-10, 510 TT
RV6A (Sojourner) 180 HP, Catto 3 Bl (502Hrs), gone...and already missed
Air Tractor AT 502B PT 6-15
Air Tractor 402 PT-6-20
EAA Flight Advisor/CFI/Tech Counselor
Louisville, Ga

It's never skill or craftsmanship that completes airplanes, it's the will to do so,
Patrick Kenny, EAA 275132


Dues gladly paid!
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 09-19-2012, 02:24 AM
Jumbo's Avatar
Jumbo Jumbo is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Muenster, Germany, Europe.
Posts: 137
Default yes, HR I (only 4 built) - not HR II

Thanks gents,

As far as I understand the HR I is essentially a standard -3 with a "pumped up" motor and a raised turtleback. I am not aware of any change of seating location for CG reasons as all the parts and pieces were installed in the original locations.

So with the angle valve AEIO 360 I think the CG at Empty Weight (I know the MTV-12 helps over a i.e. a Hartzell) is important. Too, I don´t know about potential flutter of RV-3 control surfaces at say 190kts+ IAS.

Someone out there able to advise?

Heinz
__________________
Homebased Muenster-Telgte, Germany, Europe, donated 09/2013 - next donation due 09/2014
a.) Eggenfellner H-6 powered 4-seat Robin, PH-ERD 325+hrs since SEP 2008 .... counting
b.) bought flying with gratitude: Vans RV-4 with O-320, PH-EIL (former N921MS) .... now sold to live on in Southern France (nice!!)
c.) bought flying at 51 TT: Vans RV-3A, PH-URZ .... getting used to it (and having fun )
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 09-19-2012, 04:50 AM
Tom Martin Tom Martin is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 836
Default

Have you tried to contact John Harmon?
__________________
Tom Martin RV1 pilot 4.6hours!
CPL & IFR rated
EVO F1 Rocket 800 hours,
2010 SARL Rocket 100 race, average speed of 238.6 knots/274.6mph
RV4, RV7, RV10, two HRIIs and five F1s
RV14 under construction #153

Fairlea Field
St.Thomas, Ontario Canada, CYQS
fairlea@xplornet.ca
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 09-19-2012, 09:20 AM
smokyray's Avatar
smokyray smokyray is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: "The Swamp" Central FL
Posts: 1,317
Default Birds of a feather...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jumbo View Post
Hi,

I am trying to find out what the differences are - both structural and aerodynamic - between the RV-3 and the Harmon Rocket I. I am aware of the turtle deck and more HP however I don't have any knowledge really re the wings in detail and re any resulting change in flying behavior.

If you guys, more knowledgeable than me, would provide some insight I'd be glad.

Thanks, Heinz
Wie Geht's Heinz!

As you know the HR-1 was a modification of the RV-3 kit of which John Harmon is very familiar. He was one of the original RV-3 builders and went on to assist or build seven more. The HR-1 was basically a beefed up RV-3 with an IO-360 A1B6 up front, .040 forward fuselage skin, single .032 top wing skin, RV4 empennage, longer landing gear, fastback.
From talking to the owner of the one currently in Barnstormers, there were only five ever built. He flies it regularly and touted excellent performance and speeds comparable or exceeding the HR2 he flies alongside regularly. He has flown the F-1 Rocket and says the HR-1 is much lighter in pitch and slightly less in roll, almost Pitts behavior. Most Rockets are nose-heavy but apparently the HR-1 is better balanced. Climb apparently is spectacular, surpassing even the F-1. Having owned a 300HP HR2, that's impressive. (not quite the F16, but what is)

John Harmon doesn't use this site but does monitor the Matronics Rocket list regularly. Most of the Rocket guys are there as well. www.matronics.com

Good Luck!
V/R
Smokey

PS:You can also call him, I have his cell# if you want to email me offline.



The few, the proud...

Last edited by smokyray : 09-19-2012 at 09:32 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 09-20-2012, 08:47 AM
Jumbo's Avatar
Jumbo Jumbo is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Muenster, Germany, Europe.
Posts: 137
Default Rocket Mailing List

Smokey, Tom,

thanks for that - as per Smokeys advise I have put a post on the Rocket Mailing list (which John Harmon seems to visit normally) with my questions however still all input is welcome.

Best, Heinz
__________________
Homebased Muenster-Telgte, Germany, Europe, donated 09/2013 - next donation due 09/2014
a.) Eggenfellner H-6 powered 4-seat Robin, PH-ERD 325+hrs since SEP 2008 .... counting
b.) bought flying with gratitude: Vans RV-4 with O-320, PH-EIL (former N921MS) .... now sold to live on in Southern France (nice!!)
c.) bought flying at 51 TT: Vans RV-3A, PH-URZ .... getting used to it (and having fun )
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 09-21-2012, 04:33 AM
Michael White's Avatar
Michael White Michael White is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Marietta, Georgia
Posts: 735
Default

Heinz,
Let us know what you find out. It'd be nice to know what the non-visible differences are.

Best,
__________________
Moose
VAF #136
N424LZ Reserved
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 09-21-2012, 05:20 AM
Larry DeCamp Larry DeCamp is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Clinton, Indiana
Posts: 150
Default Why the RV-4 Empennage ?

Smokey, do you know the reason for the larger empennage ??
__________________
Larry DeCamp
Rose Parrakeet NC14866
RV-3B in progress
Clinton, IN
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:39 AM.


The VAFForums come to you courtesy Delta Romeo, LLC. By viewing and participating in them you agree to build your plane using standardized methods and practices and to fly it safely and in accordance with the laws governing the country you are located in.