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Fuselage order, deletions and options...

tkatc

tkatc

Well Known Member
Since I just bought a set of second hand QB wings, I am ready to order the fuse. Probably going slow build to save on money. I have read the fuse is relatively fun to build. The only option I know I want to splurge on if Grove gear. Not sure on 1 piece or two but if you have any suggestions, fire away. Given that info...what needs to be deleted from my fuse order?

What options should I be thinking about now? I need guidance. What did you delete/add and why?
 
Fuse order

Not much to delete you can delete the tail wheel if you go with an Aviation Products model , I deleted the gear legs , was going Grove but ended up buying a set of Vans gear for $100 . Go with the in flight adjustable peddles , aileron trim ( manual , cheap , easy , if you don't need it ) . Tell Vans you have the wings , the longerons come with the wing kit , you may need add them to the order.
If you are going fuel injected , the fuel lines and pump install will take place before the forward side skins are riveted . I used the pump from EFII ( my install is on their web site )
The fuselage goes together pretty quick ,might consider the finishing kit about half way thru.
 
I deleted the tailwheel, I went with a Bell. I also deleted the gear, I went with the 1-piece Grove. If you choose this option, you will need to modify the bottom forward skin if you want to make the gear removable. It is possible that Grove would make you a 1-piece airfoil gear if you want to dig deep into your pockets...
 
Yes, I will probably go with an aftermarket tailwheel set-up as well, getting rid of the chains for a simpler and more asthetic install with a fixed arm.

What are the net increases in price for these mods? Deleting Vans gear will save me X but adding aftermarket parts will add X?

I probably asked this question at the wrong time. Many who would respond are probably at OSH. :rolleyes:
 
Thanks Mike. I think I have already decided on a Todd's canopy but that's a decision I have to make with the finishing kit, correct?
 
Todds only makes the plastic bubble.

The Show Planes can use it or Vans canopy/bubble.

What the Show Planes gives you is the fast back and the tip over.

And, more shoulder room in the front seat:D
 
Bump this up. I am itching to order the fuse NOW but need more sound advice first. I know I will be using grove gear and I would like to use a Bell tIlwheel fork but I am not sure they are still being made. Also, are all the different tailwheel control arms the same? (not a fan of vans chains/springs)
 
Doug Bell has a new batch of tailwheels in progress, so let him know you'd like one (but be mindful of waiting a while due to the recent passing of Mr Bell Snr). It's a product that's worth waiting for.

Otherwise, Andair fuel selector to replace the Van's unit (even Van's are making Andair standard in their latest model now ;) ).

Grove gear - they might even have some left from the latest batch. Think about brake reservoirs on the pedal master cylinders, rather than reservoir on the firewall (less pipe work - some people for, some against). Grove sell those too.
 
Ed, good stuff. I think I like the reservoir on the pedals. I'm on the fence about a parking brake though?!?!

Mike, are all tailwheel links that expensive? I agree it is a critical component, but is it really worth $195?
 
I have no experience with the units myself, but the reviews here at VAF seem to favor them.

If you are at OSH, go look for some planes with links, and ask the owners.

I have a parking brake in my plane, love it. At my home airport, the fuel pit is really a fuel hill-------nice to taxi up, set the brake, and get out without having to chase the plane as it rolls away.
 
Yep, I'm goin back and forth on the parking brake. It equals more money, complexity and weight....but I agree, I have one on the -7a and it sure is handy!

And unfortunately I am no at Osh this year.
 
TK,

When you order just tell Vans you are buying grove gear and they will delete everything, gear legs, fiberglass leg fairings, bolts, attach brackets.

You should also delete the upper and lower fuselage and wheel pants fairings and go with RV bits or Bob's fairings.

Emp fairing too, go with Bob's.

When you build the towers...don't save time! Do the mod everyone does to allow easy access to the gear bolts!

Delete the vans brake reservoirs and fuel valve.

Think about the fuel pump too, ask people about the new options in that area.

I went with Vince Fraziers flyboy accessories Rocket Steering Link and it works great!

Back to the gear, I don't know how many people went with the 1 piece gear. That may add a ton of time since you will be leading the way with just several others.
 
other little things

You definitely want the aileron trim (manual in my case)

I modified my canopy handle by cutting off the hoop, cutting 5/8" off each end of the hoop, and brazing it back on. This still fits your hand nicely, and keeps the hoop from interfering with the back seat rest when accessing baggage.

Decide now about rear battery or front. If you opt for rear, and change your mind later to front, it is easier than the other way around.

Order a whole bunch of the black plastic bushings for cable pass throughs. The 5/8" ones. Not much use for the little ones, just a few. I used MANY. I even used some 1" ones I found at the local hardware store.

Go with the "Delux" throttle quadrant. The stock one is just not nice enough. I modified my Throttle quadrant mounting cover so it is easier to install and remove, looks more of a natural fit in the airplane. Others have done some significant mod's here -- hand ergonomics is important.

I would not recommend spending the money on the back seat rudder pedals. I'm not alone in buying them and then not installing them. I wish someone would engineer a nice set of rear pedals.

Start thinking about whether or not to modify the fwd baggage bulkhead for instrument bay access. I did not, and I am happy -- I used the bulkhead to mount a bunch of things, which you can't do if it is an access door.

Order a ton of platenuts and install the floor panels with plate nuts. I used every other hole.

You might consider the rear-baggage shelf modification that Mike Robbins did to his - you can gain a huge amount of storage space. See this:
http://www.romeolima.com/RV8/MikeRobbins.htm
The little center box is for the elevator bellcrank.
You can do this even if you put the battery in the back, it just means that the center box is somewhat bigger. I wish I did this now. But doing it to a finished airplane is more work, less fun.

If you think you might use the Classic Aero Designs Aviator seats, then delete the standard front seat back. The Aviator seat has the seat back built in. On the other hand, I modified my stock seat back to be comfortable to use with a parachute, so I have both. So you might decide to keep the stock one too.

Lots more options come up with the finishing kit.
 
Now we're talking! This is exactly the kind of stuff I need to hear.

Rear battery sounds good. It will be an injected engine with C/S prop so that will make the nose heavy.

Grove sells the brake reservoirs so I will probably get those for pedal mounting.

Pants and fairings....are they part of the fuse kit?

It will be an andair fuel valve and pump (unless there are better options)

I looked at the rocket steering link....are all links now black? I like that silver hawk version I have seen but I think they are out of business.

Anyone know how to place an order for a Bell tail fork? And would I use Vans wheel with that fork?
 
Deleted the aileron trim and don't miss it at all. Never used it while flying a previous 8.

The ground adjustable (fixed) pedals offer more clear space on the forward floor. It's nice to be able to cross your legs, stretch, etc.

The two things I would change if I built another?

(1) One-piece Grove gear, for piece of mind. I doubt there would be any extra installation time because alignment becomes dirt simple. In return you'll do a tiny bit more sheet metal work.

(2) Two-lever throttle/prop quadrant with a separate vernier mixture for fine control. It's hard to change EGTs a few degrees with a lever.

Not an order item, but you might want to build a rear baggage floor battery access hatch:
www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=23825

BTW, a PC925 fits the standard tray if mounted on its side.

A front mount big screen EFIS install reduces the need for a forward baggage bulkhead hatch. Just wire the EFIS with a decent service loop. Take out 4 screws and you have a huge hole to reach behind the panel.

If you decide on any fastback version you may as well delete the stock turtledeck skin and the tail fairing.

It's a stretch to reach reservoirs on the master cylinders. Relocate the stock reservoir to here and you don't have to do anything but open the baggage lid:

http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showpost.php?p=434630&postcount=354
 
If you plan to fly off grass strips regularly, you may want to consider the larger tires. They are 380 x 150 x 5 you can order from Desser. Wheel pants must be fitted to these larger tires, so you probably want to start with them rather than modifying the wheel pants later. They offer a larger footprint.
 
Thanks guys! I think I am armed with enough knowledge to order the fuse which I will do today if I can get home in time and figure out all the part numbers to be deleted.
 
Survey says...

I'm about to order my fuselage kit, and would like to know what you ended up adding/deleting from your order.

Thanks!
 
You can never have too much .025, .032 (mainly), .040, .062 sheet. I never allow Vans to ship a big ol' crate without the bottom lined in maximum size sheets of material for much later tinkering.
 
Order a DJM tailwheel to go with your Bell fork.

Drop the Van's fuel valve and order an Andair!

At some point you will have to order seats, antennas, harness, etc. but those things can all wait.
 
Here's what I sent in with my order :

for reference, I'm going Grove gear, Full DJM tailwheel assembly, and Andair selector valve.

Order changes for RV-8 Fuselage Kit order

Delete the following :
U-801-L-PC - Gear
U-801-R-PC - Gear
U-803-PC (2 of them)
U-804-PC (2 of them)
FSTW-ASSY ? Tailwheel assembly
BAG 487 ? Fuel Valve

Add the following
FUEL VALVE FS 20X7T ? Andair fuel valve
BUSHING SB625-8 (50 of them) ? 5/8 bushings
AA6-063X3/4X3/4X6' ? Angle
AA6-125X1X1X6' ? Angle

?? FSTS635-1 ? Tailwheel spring (not sure if this is part of FSTW-ASSY or part of the weldment that holds it and thus is already included. I need the spring, just not the tailwheel assembly.)
 
Extra sheet aluminum

One thing that I didn't do was order some extra sheet aluminum for the mods to the avionics bay and the gear towers that I did. Got it from ACS, but should have thought about it with my fuse order last year.

Also, if you're thinking about removable floors in the -8, you may want to pick up the nutplates and screws now as well.

I picked up the rear throttle kit from ACS (didn't like Van's one when I got it) and the Grove parking brake from ACS as well.

I'm very happy with the Andair fuel valve that I received from Van's and the ease of install and changing the clock position of the fittings. If you're looking at a boost pump, I went with the EFII (from ACS) with the 90 degree fittings...makes life a lot easier, for me anyway.

The tail wheel comes with the finish kit. I just ordered the DJM as well and have the Bell fork. The tail wheel assembly is all one kit. You can't separate it from Van's. You'll just have the extra piece that is replaced by the Bell fork.


Cheers,


Don
 
Thanks for all the replies. I'm also planning to use the Grove gear, but I'm undecided if it will be aero gear, or straight -- but that's another discussion. Weight is the primary factor, but I did see a set of polished airfoil legs at AirVenture that was really impressive.
 
I know this is an old thread, so I'm curious how much has changed in the last 7 years now that it's 2020. I'm hoping to order the fuselage kit this month (January).

Tailwheel options. Condor2 pneumatic tire vs various solid tires. Rocket link vs stock? Different forks, Condor2 vs Bell vs Screaming Eagle vs Van's? Bearing yoke vs standard bushing?

Brakes. Van's stock brakes, Cleveland, Grove, etc.?

As for tires, my project is going quite slowly, so I'll probably stick with the stock rubber. Let the cheap tires age sitting on the shop floor and replace it when it's actually time to fly. At the rate I'm going, it will be another 10 years before it flies.

Fuel Valve. Is the Andair fuel selector or other options really worth the extra money over the standard Van's fuel selector? Mostly interested in safety and ease of use.

Are the seat belts in the fuselage or the finish kit? I'm planning inverted fuel and oil for the engine, so need seat belts capable of sustained mild inverted flight well. Crow and Hooker seem to have good products. Any pros and cons to either option?

Grove still doesn't seem to be making aluminum landing gear, but Sky Designs does.

The delux Van's throttle quadrants look pretty nice and cost effective. Is there anything I'm missing here?

I don't hear much about after market fuel pumps, so I'm gathering that the standard Van's provided pumps are gsufficient?
 
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My thoughts:
- Grover Gear, or the new vendor.
- The finish kit now has Matco brakes instead of Cleveland. The are a different form factor from the Cleaveland are not well suited for the Grove gear. Either get the Cleveland or Grove brakes.
- Seatbelts are not included in the kit. This is my third RV using Hooker and I recommend them.
- The 90 degree Andair fuel valve is the way to go. Shoot fire - I now have three never used stock Van?s fuel valves on the shelf...
- I?m using the deluxe throttle quadrant and like it.
- I?m using the stock tail wheel but with the rocket link.
- I?m a fan of the AirFlow Performance electric fuel pump.

Other thoughts:
- I did baffles on the RV-8A, plenum on the RV-10 and now baffles again on this RV-8. If I had to do it over again (and I still may) I would get the IO-360 plenum from James Cowl and modifying the stock Van?s cowl to make it work.

Carl
 
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