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  #1  
Old 06-09-2012, 01:17 PM
jetdriven jetdriven is offline
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Houston tx
Posts: 125
Default Lycoming IO-360 making metal. Options?

Engine: Lycoming IO-360-A3B6D
TTSN: 3,590
TSMOH: 1,325 (new cylinders, new cam, rebuilt lifters, 2001)

At the last oil change we found approximately 1/4 teaspoon full of ferrous metal in the oil filter. Iron in the oil analysis is elevated, at 90 PPM (average was 30).

We are taking it in for a detailed inspection tomorrow to include a borescope and maybe pull off a couple cylinders for inspection of the cam and lifters. At this time, the major possibility is the camshaft or lifters have failed and engine replacement is neccesary.

I have 3 major options, maybe 4.

Lycoming factory overhaul engines have the new roller camshaft. There is a zero chargeback policy on the core engine provided it is not disassembled or damaged.

IO-390 is same price, but needs a new Hartzell "BA" prop, another ten grand, and about 4K in other costs.

Zephyr engine overhaul is 23K. This is reused cylinders and a new cam and lifters. The major risk here is the case or crank will not pass recertification. Per Aircraft Specialties Services, a replacement serviceable crankshaft for an -A3B6D is 8-10K, and a new one is 14K. they can only be turned to .009 undersize, and it was last machined to .003. A replacement crankcase is ~4K. I would be liable for both.

We will know more on Monday, but it looks like an engine replacement. Must have been all that LOP, climbing at 2,700 RPM, and air racing. Wouldnt that be something, 188 MPH on a bad camshaft at gross weight. I should have known better than to cheat the system

All input welcome.
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  #2  
Old 06-09-2012, 01:29 PM
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mannanj mannanj is offline
 
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Location: Beautiful Mtns of N.E. Georgia. Palm Bay, FL
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Default Engine

Just a wild guess at this point, but with the rebuilt lifters, I would guess a spalled cam and lifters. Pull a couple of cylinders and have a look at the cam for spalled lobes and lifters, then look at the piston skirts for embedded ferrous metal.
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  #3  
Old 06-09-2012, 02:20 PM
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rocketbob rocketbob is offline
 
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If it were me, knowing the cost of angle valve cylinders and the fact that this engine is mid-time, I would pull a cylinder and look around. If the cam or lifters are spalled think about having a good A&P split the case and replace the cam and recondition the lifters and put it all back together. I can generally wiggle the rods to determine what kind of shape the rod bearings are in.
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  #4  
Old 06-09-2012, 02:44 PM
rockwoodrv9 rockwoodrv9 is offline
 
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Rocketbob,
I read most of your posts and wish I knew about engines like you do. But the best part is your picture. Im not sure why, but that picture just cracks me up!
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  #5  
Old 06-09-2012, 03:41 PM
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rocketbob rocketbob is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockwoodrv9 View Post
Rocketbob,
I read most of your posts and wish I knew about engines like you do. But the best part is your picture. Im not sure why, but that picture just cracks me up!
I found it funny too when I first saw it, but it also speaks of deep irony...
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N678X F1 Rocket, under const.
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  #6  
Old 06-09-2012, 04:06 PM
rockwoodrv9 rockwoodrv9 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketbob View Post
I found it funny too when I first saw it, but it also speaks of deep irony...
Figure out how to add sarcasm and it would work for me!

Back on topic, I am interested in what you find out about the metal in the engine. At 1300 hours, it is a big deal. Thanks.
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  #7  
Old 06-12-2012, 08:49 AM
jetdriven jetdriven is offline
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Houston tx
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3 spalled lifters, ruined camshaft. Crank and case look OK. Our shop doesnt want to split the case and install a new cam . So looks like my options are new limits new cylinder overhaul:
Custom Airmotive: $23,800
Zephyr: $ 26,400
Lycoming OH (roller cam) $ 29,150

Anyone care to comment on these shops?
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  #8  
Old 06-12-2012, 09:19 AM
rockwoodrv9 rockwoodrv9 is offline
 
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Jetdriven, yoou and Mannanj sure called that one. Quite a large repair bill for 1300 hours. That is getting close to the new-rebuilt question. Good luck with the repairs and hope you get back in the air soon.
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  #9  
Old 06-12-2012, 09:37 AM
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RV8iator RV8iator is offline
 
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Location: Dahlonega, GA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jetdriven View Post
3 spalled lifters, ruined camshaft. Crank and case look OK. Our shop doesnt want to split the case and install a new cam . So looks like my options are new limits new cylinder overhaul:
Custom Airmotive: $23,800
Zephyr: $ 26,400
Lycoming OH (roller cam) $ 29,150

Anyone care to comment on these shops?
Jetdriven,

Just out of curiosity, I see it was rebuilt in 2001, I'm wondering if it sat idle for a period of time and may have had rust build up on the cam or lifters.
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  #10  
Old 06-12-2012, 09:54 AM
Bdalporto Bdalporto is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: San Jose, CA
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Default IO-360 making metal

For that kind of money I might give Mike Busch a call. Not sure a complete overhaul is warrented. Might cost you a little for a cousult but probably save some money in the long run.
http://www.savvyaviator.com/

Brian

Quote:
Originally Posted by jetdriven View Post
3 spalled lifters, ruined camshaft. Crank and case look OK. Our shop doesnt want to split the case and install a new cam . So looks like my options are new limits new cylinder overhaul:
Custom Airmotive: $23,800
Zephyr: $ 26,400
Lycoming OH (roller cam) $ 29,150

Anyone care to comment on these shops?
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