Rudder Leading Edge -- *(*&#%##!&@

Triple double dog DANG.

Little did I know that rolling the leading edge would be the most difficult part of building the rudder! That made riveting the trailing edge to be like child's play.

It turned out about 95% the way I wanted it, but there are a few places between the rivets where the outer skin is not pulled tight against the inner skin.

QUESTION -- did anyone add some rivets in these places to eliminate these small gaps? Is there another way to do this?

Notes to self and anyone else who has not done this:

1. When you roll each side, roll it fairly tight. I used a 1" aluminum tube which worked well, but maybe a 3/4" would have been better?

2. When you roll the first side, do all the rolling you are going to do BEFORE rolling the second side. Once you roll the second side, it's very tough getting the tube back in placed and taped up again if you need to roll the first side some more. I was able to do it, but not without a LOT of effort and trouble.

3. Just as Van's says, when you roll, keep the force DOWN on the tube as you roll. That will keep the side from bending at the spar. Mine did well except for the small section at the very top of the rudder. Since that section is short, it bends much easier than the other two, so without realizing it I didn't keep the force down on that end and the side bent somewhat at the spar. I was able to work it out well enough, but it didn't have to happen.

4. Duct tape on tube and skin worked very well, so do it just like they say.

5. I edge rolled the outer skin BEFORE rolling. Instructions didn't call for it, but I did it anyway. Hope that was the right thing to do, but it turned out okay.

6. Instructions say to debur the holes once they are drilled. RIGHT. The last thing I was going to do after busting my butt to get cleco's in place, and that took two people to do it on the bottom section, was take it all apart and spread the metal enough to get my hands behind the inside surfaces and rub with scotchbrite. I actually did that on the middle section and it was a mistake. I had to spread the metal so much that it made it that much more difficult to go back together. So, instead of using a drill bit, I opened the rest of the holes with a reamer which produced much less burring and only deburred the outer holes. I don't know what's right or wrong here, and I wonder if it would have been better to drill and debur both sides BEFORE rolling, then slightly ream again if needed for final alignment. For me this became a matter of "do your best and putty the rest."

Anyway, this turned out to be a four hour job for me. First time I've done this in the kit, and I learned a lot. Guess we'll see on the elevators!

yep

As you say, this can be a challenge. I ended up drilling out several of the rivets, then making sure the skins were tight together before resetting them with fresh blind rivets.

I did end up adding several LP4-3 rivets where the skins still "pillowed". Again, make sure both skins are touching before you pull them.

All this will be hidden once on the plane. Good luck.

Thanks, Sean, that's probably what I'll do -- add a few additional rivets to pull in the three or four small gaps. All of my skins are tight against each other -- made sure of that before pulling each rivet -- it's just the slight bulges between a few rivets that I want to eliminate.

I wouldn't worry too much about deburring in this area. The rivets are just holding the two edges together - not much stress.

Don't worry the rudder is the easy one, .016 skins vs .020 on the elevators. I have done many rudders and elevators and find it is easier to roll one segment at a time starting at the tip end. I also use as many as 3 different dia. tubes to make the roll. 1/2, 3/4, &1" After you've done 90 or 100 flight controls it will take you about 10 min. per. And remember, don't judge your ability on the time it takes and have another beer!

The EASY one? Uh-oh.

I did come to realize that it probably would have been better to roll it in sections, but by then it was too late. Using different diameter tubes would likely also have helped. Thanks for the good tips.

All in all, it turned out okay, just took me by surprise as I've heard so much about the trailing edge and not much about the leading edge.

Well, on to the elevators -- wings arrive late June!

Oh yeah, almost forgot, I do plan to have that beer as you suggest, Chuckster. Getting hot up here in KS.

Piece of cake! Really!

This is one of those instances when a little research really pays off.

I did not think of these techniques, but I don't remember the builder's site(s) I got them from, sorry!

Put a garbage bag down on your bench and lay the flight control to be rolled with the conduit (what I used) taped to it. Clamp on the blocks. You will notice one side of the block is thinner than the other, that is to allow room for the cutout of the hinge to slide up to the block as you roll the edge. The garbage bag provides a slippery surface for the flight control to slide as you roll the edge, and protects scratching. I rolled the entire edge at once, very, very easy, especially using the pipe wrench.

After it is rolled, pull the edges you want to cleco as close together as you can with both hands, then holding it with one hand, slap a pre-ripped piece of duct tape on it to hold it there. Now you can use both hands to fully get both pieces together enough to cleco. Re-use duct tape as needed.

Using these techniques I was able to do this job from start to fully riveted entirely by myself in less than an hour, including setting everything up.

Use a reamer to enlarge the holes, very little if any burrs.

Again I didn't think of this, I am so thankful for you guys who document everything so well, I hope I am paying it back enough by sharing it here, though I cannot give named credit!

**DISCLAIMER**You will notice in the pictures the skin on the elevator is not riveted yet, that is because I just set this up to take some quick pictures for this post, I will be riveting the elevator together today, and rolling it afterward! Also, the blocks don't match because one is an older one I made when I rolled the rudder, and the other new one had too thin a leg on it and I broke it as I was setting up the picture. You probably don't even need the leg to hit the bench on that side, the clamp keeps it tight on the conduit.

Thanks, Damon, that makes perfect sense. I'll have to make me some blocks and give it a try on the elevators. The key appears to hold the tube down and stationary as it's being rolled, and let the leading edge be pulled toward the tube -- just the opposite of what happens when you do it free hand. It's one of those things that you don't realize what you need until you do it one time! Should go much easier next time around.

Funtime starts after the job is done..

A poster on this site used something similar and ended up with edges that were "over" rolled, so I went freehand and didn't use blocks. Then again, I'm building a 10, so the pieces are bigger. Definitely use the tape trick. It helps the most of anything I've read. Makes it a quick solo job. As an added bit of advice, if you have any stresses in the edges (i.e. it takes a lot of force to hold the pieces together, I'd recommend leaving the tape in place for a couple days to relieve those stresses before clecoing. If the stresses are high and you cleco, the clecos could enlarge the holes as the stress tries to pull the edges apart. Tape, on the other hand, puts no stress on the holes.

Yes you can over roll

I did on bottom section of the rudder, as I did each section one at a time on that. It wasn't very hard to gently massage it back out by hand though.

That's the reason I rolled the entire edge at once on the elevator. Take it slow, you don't need to bend the majority of the flange, maybe just the first inch or a slight bit more as I recall. Its right around a 90 degree bend or less and doesn't look like it will work, but it pulls together quite nicely. Either way, you can put it back on the bench and bend a little more, or massage it back out. The worst thing I did on the rudder was catch a corner on something (maybe the block) and mangled it a bit. I fixed it by bending back as much as I could and enlarging the opening for the hinge somewhat by cutting off the more damaged area. I checked very carefully everything was clear before rolling on the elevators.

How many of you edge rolled the outter skin? I did, and it turned out fine, but didn't see that recommended anywhere or in the instructions. Maybe it's a step I did not need to do?

Yes, I edge rolled the skin. It's not really necessary for looks, as once the controls are installed, you won't see them, and I am under no illusions my efforts will be prize winning. Nevertheless, I do what I like, and it makes me happy to see the edges snug.

Did it. Easy step and usually produces a better result.

Check out the Burraway tools for deburring both sides of a hole with a single pass. You just chuck the tool up in your drill and pass it through the hole. Worked very well for me on almost the entire build. Get one for each of the 4 or 5 sizes of holes most commonly used...40, 30, etc. You can usually find them on Ebay for pretty cheap.

Oh, and don't let the drill fall over...you'll bend the Burraway, making it useless. Ask me how I know this. (Fortunately, that didn't happen until very late in the build. I learned early on to not stand the drill up on its base when setting it down, but to lay it on its side...again, ask me how I learned THIS lesson, too ).

Steve, Buraway looks good, but man are they expensive. I haven't looked on ebay, so might be less expensive there.